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lordstanley

2016 Offseason Thread

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2014-2015 Season Results

Detroit - 100 points, lose 1st round in 7 games

Pittsburgh - 98 points, lose 1st round in 5 games

San Jose - 89 points, miss playoffs

Point Totals as at March 1, 2016

Detroit - 75 points

San Jose - 74 points

Pittsburgh - 72 points

 

Management, players and fans of Pittsburgh and San Jose must be thanking their lucky stars the franchise decided to push forward over the past year with moves to make their teams better, rather than having given up and tanking for years as a "proper rebuild".

 

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6 hours ago, lordstanley said:

2014-2015 Season Results

Detroit - 100 points, lose 1st round in 7 games

Pittsburgh - 98 points, lose 1st round in 5 games

San Jose - 89 points, miss playoffs

Point Totals as at March 1, 2016

Detroit - 75 points

San Jose - 74 points

Pittsburgh - 72 points

 

Management, players and fans of Pittsburgh and San Jose must be thanking their lucky stars the franchise decided to push forward over the past year with moves to make their teams better, rather than having given up and tanking for years as a "proper rebuild".

 

I'm definitely not part of the tank it crowd, but to be fair, Pittsburgh still had Crosby, only 28 and Malkin, 29, Letang, 29, MAF 31.  So they have in their prime talent, and only needed tweaking and could be considered underperformers in season's past. They also changed coaches and had a GM change.   SJ doesn't have quite the talent and isn't as young, but Pavelski, Burns, Couture are all still in their prime. 

By contrast, the Wings have Zetterberg, Kronwall, Ericsson and a soon to be departed Datsyuk.  They have a team full of fifth and sixth defensemen, underachieving small forwards and too many bad contracts.

I don't think a tank is the answer but KH definitely needs to lose the blind loyalty, make some bold moves,either via trade or by signing Stamkos and hopefully figure out why Blashill was so ineffective and maybe add some assistant coaches who can help to figure out why the PP was so bad and why so many players underachieved under Blashill.

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I think this is the year to go totally kids, and not necessarily to tank. But to let them sink or swim. Bring as many youngsters up as possible. Dump (or don't re-sign) as many over-the-hill or never-had-much-to-begin-with guys as possible.

Sorry Z but... It needs to be an evaluation year or two. Nyquist and Tatar and others either step up, or don't quite make it. Larkin makes a serious leap forward, or not. Bertuzzi/ Mantha/ AA need to be put on the NHL team to take their lumps, and not be shuttling back and forth anymore with minimal NHL time.

We might take some lumps for a couple of years, and not make the playoffs. But if we do continue to make the playoffs, it should be on the backs of the kids, and as few vets as possible.

I am not advocating tanking, but I am advocating a total youth movement, and holding off on the Stamkos's of the world, until we see where we are after a two-year self-analysis period. Our focus should not be on the playoffs, but if we make it great; but, rather, focus should be on a complete Vet-to-Youth makeover, and a re-analysis after a year or two.

 

My 2 cents.

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19 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Management, players and fans of Pittsburgh and San Jose must be thanking their lucky stars the franchise decided to push forward over the past year with moves to make their teams better, rather than having given up and tanking for years as a "proper rebuild".

 

Pittsburgh and Detroit are not comparable situations. The Pens still have a solid core of superstar players in their prime of Crosby, Malkin and Letang, Detroit does not. Our superstar players are all 33+ and declining rapidly. San Jose also has a core of, if not "superstars", high level players in Coture, Pavelski, Hertl,  Eduoard Vlasic and Burns 31 and under playing at a high level. Plus, Joe Thornton still managed 82 points this year and is far outplaying Hank and Dats. Combined Dats and Z had only 17 more points than Thornton did.

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11 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I think this is the year to go totally kids, and not necessarily to tank. But to let them sink or swim. Bring as many youngsters up as possible. Dump (or don't re-sign) as many over-the-hill or never-had-much-to-begin-with guys as possible.

Sorry Z but... It needs to be an evaluation year or two. Nyquist and Tatar and others either step up, or don't quite make it. Larkin makes a serious leap forward, or not. Bertuzzi/ Mantha/ AA need to be put on the NHL team to take their lumps, and not be shuttling back and forth anymore with minimal NHL time.

We might take some lumps for a couple of years, and not make the playoffs. But if we do continue to make the playoffs, it should be on the backs of the kids, and as few vets as possible.

I am not advocating tanking, but I am advocating a total youth movement, and holding off on the Stamkos's of the world, until we see where we are after a two-year self-analysis period. Our focus should not be on the playoffs, but if we make it great; but, rather, focus should be on a complete Vet-to-Youth makeover, and a re-analysis after a year or two.

 

My 2 cents.

I try for Stamkos, and do this if I fail. I doubt that happens though. I'm not sure the best way to develop kids is throwing them to the fire either. If they are seen as ready, play them, that's fine, but don't rush them for the sake of it. 

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12 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I think this is the year to go totally kids, and not necessarily to tank. But to let them sink or swim. Bring as many youngsters up as possible. Dump (or don't re-sign) as many over-the-hill or never-had-much-to-begin-with guys as possible.

Sorry Z but... It needs to be an evaluation year or two. Nyquist and Tatar and others either step up, or don't quite make it. Larkin makes a serious leap forward, or not. Bertuzzi/ Mantha/ AA need to be put on the NHL team to take their lumps, and not be shuttling back and forth anymore with minimal NHL time.

We might take some lumps for a couple of years, and not make the playoffs. But if we do continue to make the playoffs, it should be on the backs of the kids, and as few vets as possible.

I am not advocating tanking, but I am advocating a total youth movement, and holding off on the Stamkos's of the world, until we see where we are after a two-year self-analysis period. Our focus should not be on the playoffs, but if we make it great; but, rather, focus should be on a complete Vet-to-Youth makeover, and a re-analysis after a year or two.

 

My 2 cents.

You and I and our General Manager and team ownership are living in two different worlds. I doubt that the marketing gimmick of "the streak" means anything to either one of us. We want the kids up and we both want to see what we have in them. On the other hand, to Kenny and more-so, to Chris Illitch, marketing and perception is everything. This team, in their minds, cannot and will not limp into the new arena with kids. They will ensure, with Kenny as their captain guiding the ship, that this team makes the playoffs through the opening of the new arena. If that means bringing back veteran players at all cost and signing others through FA, it will be done. At this point we aren't so much a professional sports franchise as we are a marketing vehicle for a new arena and a national pizza chain.

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I don't think we're throwing anyone in the fire. If anything, we "overcook" our prospects by blocking them for years with a veteran-heavy team. We're not rushing prospects. And I'm not advocating that. But it's time to stop blocking young, ready prospects, who don't have the experience of the veterans and therefore will be making plenty more mistakes (as expected); and allow them as much ice time as possible (IE: Do we re-sign Helm? I love him, and he's not over-the-hill and still has his speed. Or do we let him go and Athanasiou gets all (or most) of his ice time? If we re-sign Helm, does that push down AA's minutes significantly? Or someone else's, like Mantha?) Personally, I think it's time to let our youngsters, as prepared as we can possibly get them, take as much ice time as possible and see where that gets us.

Which means we have to let go of all, or as many as possible, of all these vets that we know and love.

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I want to see, next year, as much ice time as possible, given to Pulkkinen, Marchenko, AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Tatar, Jurco, Nosek, Ouellet, and maybe a couple others. Nyquist and Larkin will get their minutes, I'm not worried about that. But I don't wanna see ice time for these other guys blocked by vets anymore.

I am willing to lose some veterans in order to make that happen, I think that that DOES need to happen; and I am willing to live with whatever mistakes and regular-season record goes along with that.

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The Wings have a mismatched roster now, not the right balance. But their point total shows they are in the middle of the pack so in my mind they are half way there, unlike the Torontos and Edmontons and CBJs that have the full mountain to climb. So I agree that in their current form  they aren't comparable to Pitt or SJ.

But IF they were to sign Yandle (29 almost 30 but still prime for a d-man) and Radulov (29),  trade a good roster player + depth roster player + high pick to acquire Shattenkirk (27), get rid of Pavel's salary and Howard's salary and move Smith or Ericsson to make room for one of the cheaper d-men in the system? You don't like that team? And give Blashill until Christmas to get results, otherwise do what SJ and Pitt have done within the past year by changing their coaches. 

Sure, argue if you will that Holland won't be that active. But IF he was? 

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IF I was 20 years younger, 8 inches taller 10 lbs. thinner and a few cup sizes bigger, I'd be a supermodel  :P

I think Radulov is a very realistic possiblity, but also somewhat of a wildcard.  He does have talent, but if the Wings weren't in such a desperate situation, no way they'd ever take a chance on him with his attitude history.

Yandle would be a logical addition depending on the length of the deal he's looking for and the salary.  Also depends on whether Holland can move any salary.

I think Shattenkirk is somewhat of a pipedream and with him being a UFA at the end of next season, you'd have to be sure you could sign him long term.  Since Holland has never really traded a regular roster player, hard to see him doing so.  But I guess anything is possible.  While I sitll don't get the hatred they have for Smith, I could maybe see him being traded because of that.  Unfortunately, not Ericsson though. 

Outside of revamping the defense, I think so much rides on how effective Nyquist and Tatar will be.  If they can be like they were in 14-15, the Wings future will have a much different feel to it.  The old guard has to be relegated to supporting roles as well.  They should not be the go to guys. 

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I think a few years ago the Wings could be accused of delaying youth, but not so much anymore. Players good enough have made the team and  have been given big roles. Larkin, Mrazek, Sheahan, Marchenko. One can complain about AA's ice time, but he made the team and it's that not big of a surprise he'd be sheltered a bit just a year after being unheralded. Mantha got a cup of coffee, which is about what his play in AHL has warranted. Yes I would like to see more playing time for AA and Mantha. And yes I would like to see XO on the team to displace a more expensive defenseman. But otherwise guys like Pulkinen, Jurco, Nosek and Sproul are spare parts IMO, a dime a dozen players, fringe NHLers. They've had adequate opportunity to prove themselves by now.

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Anderson being on the playoff roster was really undeserved. I don't know that the Anderson situation was so much delaying youth as it was a bad move.

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7 hours ago, lordstanley said:

The Wings have a mismatched roster now, not the right balance. But their point total shows they are in the middle of the pack so in my mind they are half way there, unlike the Torontos and Edmontons and CBJs that have the full mountain to climb. So I agree that in their current form  they aren't comparable to Pitt or SJ.

But IF they were to sign Yandle (29 almost 30 but still prime for a d-man) and Radulov (29),  trade a good roster player + depth roster player + high pick to acquire Shattenkirk (27), get rid of Pavel's salary and Howard's salary and move Smith or Ericsson to make room for one of the cheaper d-men in the system? You don't like that team? And give Blashill until Christmas to get results, otherwise do what SJ and Pitt have done within the past year by changing their coaches. 

Sure, argue if you will that Holland won't be that active. But IF he was? 

If we (moreso Kenny and Chris Illitch) were willing to be that active I'd like to see us make moves opposite of that. Trade Howard, Kronwall, Nyquist, Sheahan and Smith for picks and/or prospects. I know I'm beating a dead horse and living in a fantasy world, but I really don't think this team is primed to add 2-3 pieces and magically turn into a contender. I suppose if those 2-3 pieces were superstar or high caliber players we could be back in the game but Shattenkirk, Yandle and Radulov are not putting us back in Cup contention because any progress their additions bring us will be counter-balanced by the loss of Datsyuk and the continued decline of Hank and Kronwall.

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If we simply sign Radulov and Yandle (needing to dump Datsyuk, Howard, and Ericsson or Smith to do so) this team would have a ton of talent 30 and under IMO:

- Larkin

- Nyquist (he just lit up the world championships and is on Team Sweden for the World Cup - the problem with Nyquist is Blashill)

- Radulov

- Tatar

- AA

- Sheahan

- Yandle

- Green 

- DeKeyser

- Smith

- Mrazek

If you want to strengthen defense even more at the expense of offense, then you could subtract, say, Tatar and AA and Smith and add Shattenkirk.

You'd have Zetterberg and Kronwall as experienced vets in lesser roles.

The future would be bright.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Lucic ?   Anyone?   Yeah, I hate him too, but he's the kind of player they've been lacking since Mule got hurt. 

It isn't a terrible idea, though I imagine he'll command decent money on the open market and seems to want to stay in LA.  The Wings could use a bigger body like him though and he has enough of a scoring touch to be a complimentary scorer on a good team.  I just wish he wasn't so dumb and rage-y, it doesn't seem very hard to get him off his game and then he takes stupid penalties.

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I'm not a fan of signing Lucic or Backes. I doubt Lucic leaves LA anyways, there's been a lot of talk here about Vancouver going after him but the town thinks it's futile for that reason.

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Rumor is that the Wings want to offer Radulov a 1 year, $4-5 million contract because of his off ice history.  Makes sense, but I'm worried he'll look for 3ish years elsewhere. 

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I'd give him 2. That way if he has does have a good year you can enjoy a 2nd year as well rather than have him bolt. If the team is so concerned that they don't want to sign him for more than a year, then don't sign him at all. 

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I think this offseason will be pretty quiet for the Wings, but next year will be action-packed because Pavel's contract will be off the books and they won't be carrying two 5-million dollar goalies like they will likely have to do this season.    I doubt they can trade Howard, but after this season, either the Las Vegas Black Knights or the Quebec Nordiques will take him in the expansion draft.   So that means more money under the Cap and a shiny new stadium to pitch and there should be some serious movement.   But I think this year is going to be a really, really down year.   I don't see them landing Stamkos or Lucic or any major player.      They need some size or grit or both. 

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On 6/4/2016 at 4:11 PM, Motor City Sonics said:

 I doubt they can trade Howard, but after this season, either the Las Vegas Black Knights or the Quebec Nordiques will take him in the expansion draft.

Howard is on the books until the 2018-2019 season and he isn't going anywhere. Kenny doesn't trade players who have shown loyalty to him. He'll do all he can to protect him from an expansion draft too. If anything, Kenny's going to treat him to a nice dinner at The Whitney and hand write him a card. Add onto Howard has said that he would be willing to modify his NTC, but I haven't seen an indication that Holland has an interest in moving Howard nor that it was Holland asking Howard to be flexible with his NTC. As I see it right now, Kenny is happy having a goaltender he feels he can count on when the "young kid" struggles and will move forward into next season and beyond with these two guys as his goaltenders.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Howard is on the books until the 2018-2019 season and he isn't going anywhere. Kenny doesn't trade players who have shown loyalty to him. He'll do all he can to protect him from an expansion draft too. If anything, Kenny's going to treat him to a nice dinner at The Whitney and hand write him a card. Add onto Howard has said that he would be willing to modify his NTC, but I haven't seen an indication that Holland has an interest in moving Howard nor that it was Holland asking Howard to be flexible with his NTC. As I see it right now, Kenny is happy having a goaltender he feels he can count on when the "young kid" struggles and will move forward into next season and beyond with these two guys as his goaltenders.

If Holland carries two 5 million dollar goalies for more than a season - he's going to be fired.    So if he wants to risk his job on Jimmy Howard, then go ahead, it's time for him to go anyway.  

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