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I believe the NHL and KHL have a deal in place (like with other leagues) that he wouldn't be able to play in the KHL while under contract with the NHL.

 

edit: Yes, I'm reading that whatever NHL team owns his contract would have to terminate his deal for him to play in the KHL.

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1 minute ago, drownwithyou said:

I believe the NHL and KHL have a deal in place (like with other leagues) that he wouldn't be able to play in the KHL while under contract with the NHL.

Well in that case I'm confused why this is an issue. 

That said, it definitely sucks that we still get the cap hit regardless of whether he plays or not. I honestly don't care if he plays in Russia or not. I'm mostly pissed at holland for giving a want-away a three year deal. 

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20 minutes ago, Walt said:

I was responding more generally to the point of retiring rather than playing out a contract. Does the NHL CBA have a non compete clause?

 

13 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Well in that case I'm confused why this is an issue. 

That said, it definitely sucks that we still get the cap hit regardless of whether he plays or not. I honestly don't care if he plays in Russia or not. I'm mostly pissed at holland for giving a want-away a three year deal. 

The reason it is an issue is the assumption that he intends to play in the KHL next year, which he can only do if the Wings terminate his contract. In which case the Wings are stuck with the cap hit. If he didn''t care about playing in the KHL next year, the Wings could place him on Long Term Injured Reserve and avoid the cap hit. Pretty hard to credibly put someone on LTIR if he's healthy enough to play in another league! So like I've been saying, if Datsyuk tells Holland he is planning to truly retire and spend time with his family, cool, no issue. But if Datsyuk tells Holland that he wants to play in the KHL next year - as people are speculating he will but of course only Pavel knows for sure - then Holland could TRY to accomodate Pavel by trading Pavel and his cap hit to another team. But if Kenny fails to pull off such a move, then he's under no obligation to allow Pavel to play in the KHL and no benefit to the Wings in allowing him to do so.

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14 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Watching him in the first 3 games of this Tampa Bay series -  it's time.    

Datsyuk and Zetterberg both look cooked.

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6 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

Datsyuk and Zetterberg both look cooked.

Yeah, I think Zetterberg has a little left in the tank and if I was the Wings, I'd be asking Zetterberg what he'd think about missing games throughout the next season until the last month.  Because of the streak and because of some deep runs in the playoffs, it's like they've played an extra season.       Nyquist and Tatar have not stepped up like they were supposed to.  

 

By the way - Zetterberg probably steps away after another year or two.   Is Larkin going to be the next captain at 22?  

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26 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Yeah, I think Zetterberg has a little left in the tank and if I was the Wings, I'd be asking Zetterberg what he'd think about missing games throughout the next season until the last month.  Because of the streak and because of some deep runs in the playoffs, it's like they've played an extra season.       Nyquist and Tatar have not stepped up like they were supposed to.  

 

By the way - Zetterberg probably steps away after another year or two.   Is Larkin going to be the next captain at 22?  

Nyquist and Tatar have been disappointments this year, and I look to both of them to rebound next season -- there is too much talent there.

Zetterberg is a good veteran presence who has lost his elite ways.  I'd like to see him retire soon for salary cap relief.

Larkin is on the path to becoming a captain and the most exciting player the Wings have developed since Yzerman.

 

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I think this would be a good time to sell high on AA. Yes, he is exciting and he'll be better than Helm, but no I don't expect him to be better than Tatar or Nyquist.

Zetterberg at least was creating some good chances with Nyquist and I think Z can still be effective if his minutes are cut back a bit. Datsyuk on the other hand I haven't even notcied this series except when he's taking a penalty. And that's with me going out of my way to try to follow him every time he's on the ice for his final games at the Joe.

 

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10 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

I think this would be a good time to sell high on AA. Yes, he is exciting and he'll be better than Helm, but no I don't expect him to be better than Tatar or Nyquist.

Zetterberg at least was creating some good chances with Nyquist and I think Z can still be effective if his minutes are cut back a bit. Datsyuk on the other hand I haven't even notcied this series except when he's taking a penalty. And that's with me going out of my way to try to follow him every time he's on the ice for his final games at the Joe.

 

That is nuts.  AA is only 21, so it's not selling high.  He's one of the fastest skaters the Wings have ever had.  Zetterberg is the type of player the Wings need to move right now.  They need to keep acquiring talented young players like AA in their system, and build up on the depth they already have.

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Nyquist and Tatar have been disappointments this year, and I look to both of them to rebound next season -- there is too much talent there.

Zetterberg is a good veteran presence who has lost his elite ways.  I'd like to see him retire soon for salary cap relief.

Larkin is on the path to becoming a captain and the most exciting player the Wings have developed since Yzerman.

 

Can we really say Larkin was developed by the wings? He was drafted in 2014 and played 2014-15 for red berenson and then made this year's team out of camp.

Of course, he's been developing constantly over the past year, so I guess it still fits.

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Pavel was paid $17 million in the first 2 years of his deal, with next season, his final one, not having any kind of bonus.  He got a $5 million bonus last year and $2 million this year, plus $5 million in salary the first two years and 5.5 next year.

Given the structure of the deal with the bonuses in the first two years it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was the plan going in.  The only way the Wings could get him would be to offer the third year to lower the cap hit and they were ok with absorbing that in 2017.  Can't always assume it's Pavel who pulled the stunt.  The Wings may have accepted it.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

That is nuts.  AA is only 21, so it's not selling high.  He's one of the fastest skaters the Wings have ever had.  Zetterberg is the type of player the Wings need to move right now.  They need to keep acquiring talented young players like AA in their system, and build up on the depth they already have.

If Wings fans are serious about "remaking our defense", we need to accept that Howard, Ericsson and yes Zetterberg don't have trade value and aren't going to cut it. 

If you don't want to overpay for free agents or leave it to the crapshoot of drafting 18 year old defensemen, the only way to do so is by trade. A lot of Wings fans say they're on board with that until it comes down to the details  We are open to a trade but ....; "don't touch Larkin, Mrazek, AA or Mantha". If we want a Shattenkirk for example, it would probably take either a) Larkin straight up; or b) say, Nyquist, a 1st, and AA.  Which would you prefer? I'd do b)  but I'm not even sure that's enough to get it done.

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Larkin is the one I'd want to hold onto (still very young, his combo of speed and vision is impressive, I know it is corny but a Michigan kid as the top Wings player is fun to me), I would be fine with AA/Nyquist/Mantha being in a trade package as long as it isn't a massive overpay.  They desperately need a top D man.

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7 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Pavel was paid $17 million in the first 2 years of his deal, with next season, his final one, not having any kind of bonus.  He got a $5 million bonus last year and $2 million this year, plus $5 million in salary the first two years and 5.5 next year.

Given the structure of the deal with the bonuses in the first two years it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was the plan going in.  The only way the Wings could get him would be to offer the third year to lower the cap hit and they were ok with absorbing that in 2017.  Can't always assume it's Pavel who pulled the stunt.  The Wings may have accepted it.

 

 

I can't see why Holland or Ilitch would do this knowing how it would handcuff the team. A million or 2 is one thing, but willingly taking a 7.5 million hit with a team already up against the cap with several guys up for contracts and buyout money still on the books? What seems more likely is Pavel wanted X amount of dollars and the only way it could be achieved was through a 3 year deal, and for some unexplainable reason, neither he or his agent were aware of the over 35 rule. 

I've never felt like Pavel was trying to pull a stunt in any way or that it was some pre planned evil plot.  He had spoken of returning to Russia even before he signed the 3 year deal and I can recall at the time being somewhat surprised he resigned for that long.  Seems like a situation that could have been easily avoided if he had better representation or was better informed himself. He has gone on record publicly as saying he did not know about the cap hit and that in hindsight he would have signed one year deals.  Given the Nick Lidstrom and Danny Cleary contracts, it seems hard to believe that neither was aware.

I think Pavel could have handled the situation better.  Telling multiple media sources of your intention to leave, then getting angry about it when word got out.  Going to Mitch Albom (major strike against him) with his story a year ago, then telling him to print it now, first saying it's not about family, it's about injuries.  No wait, not injuries because he wants to play in the KHL.  On second thought it is family.  Then he and his agent saying no, wait, his mind isn't made up?  If he didn't care about what people thought, I don't think he would have done the damage control thing. 

It'd just have been nice if he had kept it to himself and the situation could have been resolved privately and to the benefit of both the Wings and Datsyuk. 

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6 hours ago, lordstanley said:

If Wings fans are serious about "remaking our defense", we need to accept that Howard, Ericsson and yes Zetterberg don't have trade value and aren't going to cut it. 

If you don't want to overpay for free agents or leave it to the crapshoot of drafting 18 year old defensemen, the only way to do so is by trade. A lot of Wings fans say they're on board with that until it comes down to the details  We are open to a trade but ....; "don't touch Larkin, Mrazek, AA or Mantha". If we want a Shattenkirk for example, it would probably take either a) Larkin straight up; or b) say, Nyquist, a 1st, and AA.  Which would you prefer? I'd do b)  but I'm not even sure that's enough to get it done.

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The point being, is that the Wings are loaded, especially at defense.  They don't need to trade their young talent, they just need to let them marinate.  Marchenko has already moved up to become a top regular, and Ouellet should be close.  Hicketts and Saarijarvi are both similar; smaller types, but offensive dynamos.  Robbie Russo had an excellent year in GR (5-34, and was a +40).

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2 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

The point being, is that the Wings are loaded, especially at defense.  They don't need to trade their young talent, they just need to let them marinate.  Marchenko has already moved up to become a top regular, and Ouellet should be close.  Hicketts and Saarijarvi are both similar; smaller types, but offensive dynamos.  Robbie Russo had an excellent year in GR (5-34, and was a +40).

They won't let Ouellet be a regular.   They keep blocking him with Ericsson and nothing-left-in-the-tank Kronwall and a bunch of scrubs. 

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27 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

They won't let Ouellet be a regular.   They keep blocking him with Ericsson and nothing-left-in-the-tank Kronwall and a bunch of scrubs. 

He'll have to be up next year, I do believe he's out of options.  Russo might make the team, also.

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So it's official. Fine. Definitely taints Datsyuk's legacy, IMO, he handled this poorly and comes off as not being honest.

But maybe won't hurt the Wings that much. Move the cap space if it doesn't cost too much, eat it if it costs too much. 

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He's' really screwing the Wings and nobody seems to be too upset.   this is on Holland too.  A good GM needs to have a feel for when players just aren't into it anymore.    Kind of the opposite of Steve Yzerman who didn't hesitate to ship the Lightning's most popular player of all time away when he started griping.  

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I think Holland said he was griping/ pining to go back home almost from the minute he signed the contract. So there's some suspect there on motives...

But it's water under the bridge to me, or no crying over spilled milk (pick your cliche...).

It's time to move on anyways and get serious about a team rebuild. We are in a state of mediocrity and have been for several years.

Which means I'm with Cruzer. Just eat the contract. Quit signing expensive mediocre vets to squeek us into the playoffs, including our own. Call up all our kids that are ready for a shot, or that we'll lose if we don't bring them up to the NHL, and let them play/ learn/ make mistakes/ improve. Even if we get nothing but mediocre play from some of our prospects, I'd rather pay them cheap money for their mediocrity than continue paying Cleary/ Franzen/ Ericsson/ Howard/ etc. big money for mediocrity.

If the kids grow up and start playing really well, than having a cheap payroll will allow them to sign a key FA, or make a key trade, when the time is ripe. 

The time right now, is to ripen the kids, and jettison the plethora of under-performing, mediocre veterans that we've been carrying for the past several years.

Just my 2 cents.

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3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

He's' really screwing the Wings and nobody seems to be too upset.   this is on Holland too.  A good GM needs to have a feel for when players just aren't into it anymore.    Kind of the opposite of Steve Yzerman who didn't hesitate to ship the Lightning's most popular player of all time away when he started griping.  

I'd don't get what the system that hangs the Wings with Pavel's cap when he flies the coup is supposed to accomplish.

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PS: There are certain times in a franchises life when it's time to push the reset button.

Well today, for the Red Wings, that time is now.

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