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If I was Ken Holland I would tell him this.   We want you for the stretch run.  Play over in Russia, live over in Russia, but if we're gonna take the cap hit, we might as well pay you and have you come play the last quarter of the season and playoffs.    Why  not?   

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I'm already kinda sick of this story and don't know what to believe.  Now Datysuk's agent is saying, not so fast, its not a done deal yet.  First it was the ankle injury, now it's the family calling and the big sob story about how she misses him.  But yet, he seems to time in the summers where he chooses to do other things besides see his daughter. 

I disagree in blaming Holland.  Isn't that what you hire an agent/attorney for when you sign a big contract?  Shouldn't he know the rules?  He seemed to understand when he got the big fat signing bonus.  If he's been discussing this since last year, no one told him or he didn't know himself?

 

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If he ends up trolling Mitch Albom then put him the HOF right now.

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Haha, you are right. Pavel should have said today, "what meeting with Mitch Albom? I had one scheduled, but i canceled and it never happened".

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On 4/12/2016 at 8:55 PM, Oblong said:

If he ends up trolling Mitch Albom then put him the HOF right now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pavel stole the mustard packet.

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On 4/11/2016 at 2:01 PM, Kacie said:

I'm already kinda sick of this story and don't know what to believe.  Now Datysuk's agent is saying, not so fast, its not a done deal yet.  First it was the ankle injury, now it's the family calling and the big sob story about how she misses him.  But yet, he seems to time in the summers where he chooses to do other things besides see his daughter. 

I disagree in blaming Holland.  Isn't that what you hire an agent/attorney for when you sign a big contract?  Shouldn't he know the rules?  He seemed to understand when he got the big fat signing bonus.  If he's been discussing this since last year, no one told him or he didn't know himself?

 

Fans complaining about how athletes use their off seasons or when they decide to retire has always rubbed me wrong.

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I further don't think Pavel owes the Red Wings any more loyalty than any of us feel like we owe our employer.

I can't speak for others, but if I decide to retire right before my company needs my help on a big project, tough toenails.   Their need does not equate to an obligation on my part to support that need at the expense of my desire to retire, in my opinion.

Even if I were under contract in the hypothetical.

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Especially if you were working in a foreign country.  I know we all love the US of A but Pavel lives in Russia.  That's his home.  That's his family.   It takes a lot of dedication to be a pro athlete at this level and if your heart won't be in it then you shouldn't do it. 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I further don't think Pavel owes the Red Wings any more loyalty than any of us feel like we owe our employer.

I can't speak for others, but if I decide to retire right before my company needs my help on a big project, tough toenails.   Their need does not equate to an obligation on my part to support that need at the expense of my desire to retire, in my opinion.

Even if I were under contract in the hypothetical.

What about if you worked for an organization that,say, received funding earmarked for a specific individual as a project manager, in this case you? So that when you retired right before the big project they not only lost you but more importantly weren't allowed to fill your position.

Without the cap hit, all this is a non-issue in my opinion. And cap hit doesn't need to be an issue, thanks to LTIR, as long as Pavel doesn't insist on playing in the KHL next year.  Wanting permission to play in the KHL would be like a "demand to be traded" but instead of getting assets back your team would be penalized. It would be worse than, for example,  Miggy announcing this week that he feels trapped in Detroit and wants his contract voided so he can play for the Dodgers asap - in that case the Tigers wouldn't get assets for him but at least wouldn't be cap hit penalized..

Payers can and have retired mid-season before and that's fine. Play for your country at the worlds and Olympics even if a bit banged up, that's cool too. Nor do I have a problem with the timing of Pavel's announcement - gives the fans a chance to enjoy one last playoff series with him and gives the organization a chance to do some thinking before July 1st.

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The thing with the salary cap implication is I feel that is the GM's responsibility to manage, not Pavel's.

 

Same goes in the hypothetical at my work.  If I want to retire or quit outright but some specific circumstance makes it such that my org can't replace me by using my salary to hire someone else, I am not going to stay around.  I have no expectation they would keep me around an extra year beyond what they want should they want to move on, either.

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I should add that I would plan to give good notice on when I plan to retire, and think anyone that is significant to an organization should do likewise.

But, my bigger point is if I want to retire or quit, I am going to do it independent of what project the company has on their docket / how badly they need me to stay.

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My only thought on the whole thing besides sadness on the possibility of not seeing Datsyuk do magical things in a Wings jersey after this season: why the **** did either side think it was a good idea to do a three year deal when he was already having thoughts about leaving for Russia?  Why not go year by year to see how he feels?  That way the team's salary cap isn't messed up if he wants to leave and Pavel can leave without any reservations or concerns, he seems like a thoughtful guy and that way he could make his decision without his contract affecting his decision.  Just seems odd that one or both sides wouldn't have opted for that.

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Can I also say that "Eurotwins" is the stupidest nickname ever. Who started that?  Different countries, different personalities, different styles of game. They just happen to be two great non-Canadian forwards that won a Cup together. They're not the Sedins.

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3 minutes ago, drownwithyou said:

My only thought on the whole thing besides sadness on the possibility of not seeing Datsyuk do magical things in a Wings jersey after this season: why the **** did either side think it was a good idea to do a three year deal when he was already having thoughts about leaving for Russia?  Why not go year by year to see how he feels?  That way the team's salary cap isn't messed up if he wants to leave and Pavel can leave without any reservations or concerns, he seems like a thoughtful guy and that way he could make his decision without his contract affecting his decision.  Just seems odd that one or both sides wouldn't have opted for that.

It is vexing.

That written, I lay that on Holland's doorstep far more than Pavel's.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

No argument.

Still don't know why my ideas of referring to Pavel as "Crazy Legs" and Zetterberg as "Boog" never stuck.

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It is vexing.

That written, I lay that on Holland's doorstep far more than Pavel's.

Most likely Holland is most to blame for the contract, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scenario played out that Holland was just willing to give Datsyuk whatever he wanted and Pavel and his agent presented a three year deal.  I'm not saying it is likely I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it played out if the story came out.  I doubt it ever will though, so here we are!

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How come Pavel couldn't be one of those foreigners who show forged documents to lie about their age and can argue that he was only 33 when the contract took effect.

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4 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Fans complaining about how athletes use their off seasons or when they decide to retire has always rubbed me wrong.

Players and their agents who break contracts and use their kid as the excuse and are crying foul because he can't spend as much time in the offseason in Russia as he wants makes it an issue. 

Pavel and his agent are both claiming they didn't know about the salary penalty.  Isn't that what you have an agent for?   If he's supposedly a close friend and knew of his desires to return to Russia, why would he advise him to sign a 3 year deal?  Supposedly Pavel had talked about leaving last year?  No one told him then about the salary hit? 

Why would Holland be to blame?  His job is to put the interests of the Detroit Red Wings first, not Pavel Datsyuk.  If he has felt that strongly about it for years, how would Holland be able to change his mind? Especially if he didn't bring up the salary hit. 

It isn't an Adam LaRoche situation, where his departure was a huge help to the team and most were like don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Saved the team $13 million.  If that were the case with Datsyuk, the reaction would be different.

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For one thing, an awful lot can change in 3 years.  It is entirely plausible that he intended to play 3 years and changed his mind 1 1/2 years into the thing.

Also, why does an agent or player care whether the team is stuck with a cap hit.  It isn't their concern.  That isn't to say I wouldn't expect an agent to know that - I expect he would by nature of being around the game.  But I guess I don't understand how knowing that information is central to being an effective agent.

Holland is to blame because he could have simply stuck to his guns and only offered one year deals.  If he allowed himself to be held hostage or out negotiated, then that is on him.

Adam LaRoche has nothing to do with this, but basically you are saying your issue is not that he is retiring, but because he doesn't suck and there is a cap hit associated with it, it therefore isn't ok.

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53 minutes ago, Kacie said:

Players and their agents who break contracts and use their kid as the excuse and are crying foul because he can't spend as much time in the offseason in Russia as he wants makes it an issue. 

Pavel and his agent are both claiming they didn't know about the salary penalty.  Isn't that what you have an agent for?   If he's supposedly a close friend and knew of his desires to return to Russia, why would he advise him to sign a 3 year deal?  Supposedly Pavel had talked about leaving last year?  No one told him then about the salary hit? 

Why would Holland be to blame?  His job is to put the interests of the Detroit Red Wings first, not Pavel Datsyuk.  If he has felt that strongly about it for years, how would Holland be able to change his mind? Especially if he didn't bring up the salary hit. 

It isn't an Adam LaRoche situation, where his departure was a huge help to the team and most were like don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Saved the team $13 million.  If that were the case with Datsyuk, the reaction would be different.

If you think that they are breaking their contract, you obviously don't understand the collective bargaining agreements that are in place.  Disillusioned fans think that they and their team are owed something for letting the player work for the team.  Its inane.

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3 hours ago, Walt said:

If you think that they are breaking their contract, you obviously don't understand the collective bargaining agreements that are in place.  Disillusioned fans think that they and their team are owed something for letting the player work for the team.  Its inane.

What are we missing? I understand how NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. I also understand how NHL contracts allow for compliance buyouts at the owner's option in which case only 2/3 of the contract value is guaranteed.  I also understand that if an NHL player wishes to retire and forego future payments under the contract, he's allowed to do so. But otherwise, what is it about the NHL collective bargaining agreements that would mean that Datsyuk jumping to the KHL would not constitute breaking a contract - I don't think a worldwide non compete for that one year is too much to expect.

I don't think Datsyuk is a horrible person for not playing out his contract, he's just making a business and personal decision in his best interest. So similarly, I don't think anyone should hold it against Holland or NHL if they decide it is in their best interests to enforce their rights to bar Datsyuk from playing in the NHL next year.

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11 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

What are we missing? I understand how NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. I also understand how NHL contracts allow for compliance buyouts at the owner's option in which case only 2/3 of the contract value is guaranteed.  I also understand that if an NHL player wishes to retire and forego future payments under the contract, he's allowed to do so. But otherwise, what is it about the NHL collective bargaining agreements that would mean that Datsyuk jumping to the KHL would not constitute breaking a contract - I don't think a worldwide non compete for that one year is too much to expect.

I don't think Datsyuk is a horrible person for not playing out his contract, he's just making a business and personal decision in his best interest. So similarly, I don't think anyone should hold it against Holland or NHL if they decide it is in their best interests to enforce their rights to bar Datsyuk from playing in the NHL next year.

That's just the way it is. Datsyuk or any other player can retire from the NHL, and he doesn't get paid if he does so. The CBA doesn't prevent him from playing in the KHL. That's what the owners and players negotiated. 

The issue of course is that the money still counts against the cap. That seems like a bad rule but it is the rule. I think it should be modified. There are going to be other old players that retire before the end of the contract and it doesn't seem right that the wings should be on the cap hook because of it. 

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What are we missing? I understand how NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. I also understand how NHL contracts allow for compliance buyouts at the owner's option in which case only 2/3 of the contract value is guaranteed.  I also understand that if an NHL player wishes to retire and forego future payments under the contract, he's allowed to do so. But otherwise, what is it about the NHL collective bargaining agreements that would mean that Datsyuk jumping to the KHL would not constitute breaking a contract - I don't think a worldwide non compete for that one year is too much to expect.

I don't think Datsyuk is a horrible person for not playing out his contract, he's just making a business and personal decision in his best interest. So similarly, I don't think anyone should hold it against Holland or NHL if they decide it is in their best interests to enforce their rights to bar Datsyuk from playing in the NHL next year.

I was responding more generally to the point of retiring rather than playing out a contract. Does the NHL CBA have a non compete clause?

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