Jump to content

PuNk42AE

Spring Training Cuts

Recommended Posts

41 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

I was thinking David Paulino...

I really doubt you are pulling a top 10 guy (MLB pipeline, Baseball America and BP all have him there) for the likes of a holiday. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tigers need to trade holaday. It's possible he will turn into a decent MLB catcher but this seems like an obvious sell high situation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, MNTiger15 said:

The tigers need to trade holaday. It's possible he will turn into a decent MLB catcher but this seems like an obvious sell high situation

Hindsight is 20/20, but they probably should have tried to move him as soon as they traded for Salt. You just don't have much leverage trying to trade a guy everyone believes you are going to cut anyway. Your only leverage would be with a low wavier priority team that really wanted him. But those would be the better teams/orgs, so their immediate needs would tend to be less severe in general. You can hold onto him hoping an injury somewhere else might create a more desperate trading partner, but of course then you risk still having him on April 3. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Hindsight is 20/20, but they probably should have tried to move him as soon as they traded for Salt. You just don't have much leverage trying to trade a guy everyone believes you are going to cut anyway. Your only leverage would be with a low wavier priority team that really wanted him. But those would be the better teams/orgs, so their immediate needs would tend to be less severe in general. You can hold onto him hoping an injury somewhere else might create a more desperate trading partner, but of course then you risk still having him on April 3. 

There were tweets/rumors that they were trying to trade Holaday back after the Salty signing, I remember Texas specifically being mentioned. Of course he had very little value then and I don't recall anybody here (including myself) being worried about cutting a guy with a .622 MLB OPS that wasn't much better in the minors.

 

I'm still not overly worried about cutting him but the hot spring should only up his trade value from what it was even with the impending release. If they really think he has value but don't get an offer, the Maybin injury means they could conceivably go Salty/Aviles/Romine/Holaday for a week or two until he is back. No great cover there for backup CF but then again nobody else on the roster really is either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

There were tweets/rumors that they were trying to trade Holaday back after the Salty signing, I remember Texas specifically being mentioned. Of course he had very little value then and I don't recall anybody here (including myself) being worried about cutting a guy with a .622 MLB OPS that wasn't much better in the minors.

 

I'm still not overly worried about cutting him but the hot spring should only up his trade value from what it was even with the impending release. If they really think he has value but don't get an offer, the Maybin injury means they could conceivably go Salty/Aviles/Romine/Holaday for a week or two until he is back. No great cover there for backup CF but then again nobody else on the roster really is either.

yeah - if they tried and couldn't get anything of value then why not let it ride? Another Tiger ST injury might have or might still open a longer term spot for him.  To bad it was a split squad day as I guess they are going to try and give Romine a chance in CF but couldn't today. I'm going to guess  he'll do well enough and Collins can go to AAA, which as you suggest, will potentially give Holaday a reprieve at least until Maybin comes back.

Speaking of Collins, he may have become a good enough hitter that he is going to force their hand eventually this season, but that's not a bad problem nor an immediate one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

yeah - if they tried and couldn't get anything of value then why not let it ride? Another Tiger ST injury might have or might still open a longer term spot for him.  To bad it was a split squad day as I guess they are going to try and give Romine a chance in CF but couldn't today. I'm going to guess  he'll do well enough and Collins can go to AAA, which as you suggest, will potentially give Holaday a reprieve at least until Maybin comes back.

Speaking of Collins, he may have become a good enough hitter that he is going to force their hand eventually this season, but that's not a bad problem nor an immediate one.

I think they've tried Collins in CF a couple of times too. He is a LHH but not as much a liability as Gose with that so they could go that way.

Victor to the DL is still a possibility as well, him seeming like a slow healer and the team probably wanting him a full 100% before he plays. I think he'd have to miss the first 6 days (5 games) of the season if they backdate it tho and they'll want a legit DH for the opening home series. So it's not a likely possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At no point in time has Holaday had significant trade value, so I don't think the Tigers messed up by not trading him heretofore.

Spring training numbers mean very little and all GMs know this.  Basically what this spring will do is either convince the Tigers to carry him temporarily or convince another team to pick him up when the Tigers waive him.

In either event, it is quite likely he will come back to earth and become forgotten again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

To me Gose is the biggest problem.   I think he's just bad.   

Is there a practical alternative to Anthony Gose at this stage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2016 at 10:37 PM, Yoda said:

Yeah that doesn't seem right at all. If that loophole really exists, I have to think MLB would step in and say he can't play. 

Is there a precedence for this? 

 

The Astros did it with Jon Singleton.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holaday is going to be traded, the only way that he isn't is if theres an injury to the McCannon or Salty. Holaday isn't young anymore, and doesnt platoon well with McCann like Salty does. Holaday's hot spring plays right into the Tigers hand for trading him as his value is surely not going to get higher. The return likely wont be much but it will be better than nothing. Houston makes sense as does Texas but Toronto has an out of options catcher available too. Miguel Gonzalez is likely the Mud Hens catcher this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

 

The Astros did it with Jon Singleton.

I can't recall who but Tampa also used this loophole in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, MNTiger15 said:

The tigers need to trade holaday. It's possible he will turn into a decent MLB catcher but this seems like an obvious sell high situation

Except it isn't.  Their leverage is nil, because he's out of options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Yoda said:

Well JaCoby was just sent to minor league camp... 

Those players (cut): Preston Guilmet, Drake Britton, Miguel Gonzalez, Dominic Ficociello, Tommy Field, JaCoby Jones, Mike Gerber and Jason Krizan.

 

Jose Valdez was cut as well.

That doesn't affect whether or not they add him to the 40 man roster at the end of spring. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Is there a practical alternative to Anthony Gose at this stage?

Not saying they have a viable replacement now.   I think Maybin has higher upside but he's not all that great.   Derek Hill is way too far away.   Tyler Collins is not a real centerfielder.  Wynton Bernard is just a younger Anthony Gose, maybe.    I think the only viable option that could be close in a few years would be JaCoby Jones, if they decide to make him an outfielder (or is he being groomed to be Kinsler's replacement in a couple years?).      

I understand that not everyone in your lineup needs to be a great player and championship teams have had below average everyday players.    But Gose is just so bland.   He doesn't hit well.  He's fast, but not a great baserunner.   He can cover a lot of ground but is not a great fielder and has, at least in my opinion, a terrible arm.    He's just a body out there.   He's a .250 guy at best with an OBP around .320 and little power.   Blah.     I just wish Tyler Collins could play CF, he has more upside.       I don't dislike Gose, he's just kinda there......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gose hit a little better than that against RHP last year and I think he hits well and fields well enough to be part of a platoon.

I wish they had someone who hit LHP better to partner him with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Except it isn't.  Their leverage is nil, because he's out of options.

Not necessarily. Depends on how many other teams would be interested in acquiring him. It only takes two potential buyers to create leverage. 

Still, we are talking about a backup catcher so the return will not be anything great. But it could be something of potential value. 

The downside of the good spring is that the tigers are unlikely to be able to pass him through waivers. But if it brings a bit of further interest from other teams, maybe they squeeze a bit more return value by forcing one of them to beat out another interested team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Hindsight is 20/20, but they probably should have tried to move him as soon as they traded for Salt. You just don't have much leverage trying to trade a guy everyone believes you are going to cut anyway.  

I don't know.  There was some value, and continues to be value, in hanging onto Holaday until we are closer to the beginning of the season and are pretty much sure that McCann/Salty are healthy and ready to go.  Would have sucked to trade him this winter, and then be in a position where we needed to trade for a fringy Catcher because one of our guys got dinged up in ST. 

Also, we just aren't going to have a lot of leverage in trading Holaday, no matter how we went about it.  But it's nice to see him have a good ST, and show some positional versatility to boot.  A back-up catcher who can sub at 3B or LF in a pinch in the NL is an interesting guy, if he can hit a little bit.  No one would have guessed about 3B/LF flexibility if we hadn't had a chance to stick him there the past few weeks. So in some ways, maybe we did help his trade value by holding onto him.  But I don't expect to get much in return.  

I do think the organization would really like to keep Holaday, but I just don't see a way that they can do it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

 

The Astros did it with Jon Singleton.

so would the suspension just hang out there if they ever want to option him or even send him down on a rehab assignment?

I don't understand why MiLB baseball is trying so hard to fight a rearguard action over marijuana in any case. Give it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2016 at 1:14 PM, Who is the Drizzle? said:

The Tigers outrighted RHP Montreal Robertson, meaning he is now off the 40-man roster. They've cleared a spot for somebody to be determined

They have to be looking at Parnell, right?  He's not having a great ST, but who else was in camp without a 40-man spot that they could they already be targeting?

Most of the other NRI's have been cut from the mlb camp.  Who else is left?  Schierholtz, McGehee, Kensing, Mayberry Jr?  Schierholtz and McGehee are both having nice camps, but I don't see how they can keep either player on the big league club right now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

so would the suspension just hang out there if they ever want to option him or even send him down on a rehab assignment?

I don't understand why MiLB baseball is trying so hard to fight a rearguard action over marijuana in any case. Give it up.

It's not MiLB that is enforcing the suspension. It's MLB unilaterally imposing the suspension on players that don't get the benefit of the CBA. 

The suspension wouldn't be applied if they add JaCoby to the 40 man roster. Even if he is optioned (which is what would happen) he wouldn't have to sit out any minor league games. 

I would guess that if he were subsequently removed from the 40 man down the line (like in 3/4 years when he runs out of options and he isn't good enough to stick on the 25 man of a major league team) then when he is outrighted after clearing waivers he might have to sit out 38 games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Shelton said:

 

Quote

It's not MiLB that is enforcing the suspension. It's MLB unilaterally imposing the suspension on players that don't get the benefit of the CBA. 

yes, of course you are correct. It is the lack of applicability of the CBA. So I'll rephrase: Why is the MLB beating the marijuana horse? It strains credulity to think they believe it's performance enhancing, so all that leaves is the legality, and that has already gone away for some MLB clubhouse locations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parnell, Schierholtz, McGehee, Kensing, and Mayberry Jr --- how many of these guys could we legitimately stash in Toledo?  I presume some/most of these guys have opt-outs at the end of ST (or maybe May 1st or June 1st, if we are lucky).  That said, do we have room for these guys in AAA?  Seems like the OF could be pretty tight in terms of PA's to go around:  Bernard, Moya, Collins, maybe Kirzan... Schierholtz, Mayberry.  Though, 1B might be open, and we might be able to rotate Schierholtz and Mayberry through there and the OF.  Is Green to be the full time DH?  

And where will they put JaCoby, and at what position? They surely are not going to leave him at SS, with Iglesias and Machado at the MLB and AAA levels. With Bernard likely at Toledo in CF, could he be looking at 2B? Or maybe 3B if McGehee opts out or something?  Or maybe they have him back at AA for 1/2 a season?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

yes, of course you are correct. It is the lack of applicability of the CBA. So I'll rephrase: Why is the MLB beating the marijuana horse? It strains credulity to think they believe it's performance enhancing, so all that leaves is the legality, and that has already gone away for some MLB clubhouse locations.

I think it's a combination of both the legality of marijuana and the "morality" of marijuana use (as an aside, we are assuming it is MJ but it could be another drug).

Marijuana is still classified as a schedule I drug federally. While the current administration isn't concerned with enforcing it, the fact that it is illegal federally does have an effect on how employers choose to treat it. There was a Colorado case recently where a guy with a legit medical reason for using it was fired for doing so and that was supported by the Colorado Supreme Court. 

It's one thing to be forced to negotiate a CBA and its terms. In that sense, you can see which things are of lower importance, like marijuana use. But when it comes to setting a policy for minor leaguers that doesn't have to be negotiated, it's not surprising that their policy is "you get suspended for using illegal drugs."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...