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RedRamage

Would you trade Stafford right now if the price was right?

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I would say it is nearly impossible to say because a lot changes in two years.

If he were a free agent today, would you give him equal to or greater than the $21 million per at 4 years that Eli Manning got?

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I believe Carson Palmer was slated to be a free agent when Oakland traded him to Arizona.

He was under contract for another year, but Oakland had just gotten Matt Flynn and wanted to go with him. I suppose it's possible that Palmer was going to be cut, making him a free agent. It sounds like Oakland used the leverage of having Flynn to lowball Palmer on extension offers, so they were probably going to cut him and save some money. Arizona gave up almost nothing to get him, but seeing as Oakland was probably going to get nothing for him if they cut him, that makes sense.

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I don't think 2016 is likely to be a lost season. Any trade that makes it less likely to win in 2016 wouldn't be worth it to me.

This...

And a couple other issues:

We're most likely not going to get a top 10 pick for him because those teams are rebuilding and aren't going to give up lots of picks for a 28 year old QB. They're going to want to start from scratch and build up as many positions as they can. Unless you have a playoff team that had a bad year, and feels they're only a QB away. Any of those this year? Rams, 49'ers, Bucs, Saints, Bears, Cowboys, Giants, Chargers, Raiders, Falcons, Titans, Jags, Colts, Browns, Ravens, Dolphins? Nope, they all got QB's or are too far away to throw draft picks at Stafford.

So the 1st issue is we're not going to get a top pick this year because I see no team in that area going after Stafford.

Second: I think we have a pretty good roster with lots of young talent: Stafford (28), Abdullah (22), Riddick (24), Zenner (maybe, 24), Burton (24), TJ Jones (23), Tate (27), Fuller (maybe, 25), Ebron (22), Reiff (27), Warford (24), Tomlinson (24), Swanson (maybe, 25), Corey Robinson (maybe, 23), Ansah (26), Taylor (26), Reid (maybe, 24), Wright (maybe, 23), Walker, (if re-signed (I'd like to see that), 25), Copeland (24), Levy (28), Bynes, (if re-signed (I'd like to see that), 26), Whitehead, (if re-signed (I'd like to see that), 25), Van Noy (maybe, 25), Alex Carter (maybe, 21), Diggs (23), Lawson (24), Slay (25), Abdul-Quddus (26), Isaiah Johnson (maybe, 23), even Quin at 30.

There are alot of "If-resigned" and "Maybes" in there, but they still have a chance at developing into contributing players too; we'll see about them. Still... that's just way too much young talent to start over at QB. Absolutely the wrong move to make. You have to develop all these young guys, there's too much talent there for a restart. There are holes to fill, and a lot of these guys (especially the maybes) have to get better, especially on the O-Line and at DT... but these are "Holes", not a "Rebuild Scenario". A good draft, sign a few quality FA's, no need to rebuild.

Trade Stafford, and if we don't have his high-level replacement already lined up, we're rebuilding. It's a struggle to win without a decent QB so that's almost automatic. As simple as that. That's not the right move. Quinn is going to be filling holes this first year or two. I don't see a rebuild anywhere in our near future either which, to me, is positive for Stafford's long-term future here...

3rd point: If we're trading Stafford, then we're drafting and developing his replacement this year. 3rd-5th round. If the guy becomes good enough, then we talk about trading Stafford, after a year or two, at best.

4th point: If the drafted QB doesn't become good enough, then we're not trading Stafford. We re-sign Stafford to his next extension or FA contract and I don't think we worry about the money, it's not going to destroy the team...

Those just my 'pinions...

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I believe Carson Palmer was slated to be a free agent when Oakland traded him to Arizona.

THey were considering cutting him, but had a few yers left on his deal still.

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This...

And a couple other issues:

We're most likely not going to get a top 10 pick for him because those teams are rebuilding and aren't going to give up lots of picks for a 28 year old QB. They're going to want to start from scratch and build up as many positions as they can. Unless you have a playoff team that had a bad year, and feels they're only a QB away. Any of those this year? Rams, 49'ers, Bucs, Saints, Bears, Cowboys, Giants, Chargers, Raiders, Falcons, Titans, Jags, Colts, Browns, Ravens, Dolphins? Nope, they all got QB's or are too far away to throw draft picks at Stafford.

So the 1st issue is we're not going to get a top pick this year because I see no team in that area going after Stafford.

Second: I think we have a pretty good roster with lots of young talent: Stafford (28), Abdullah (22), Riddick (24), Zenner (maybe, 24), Burton (24), TJ Jones (23), Tate (27), Fuller (maybe, 25), Ebron (22), Reiff (27), Warford (24), Tomlinson (24), Swanson (maybe, 25), Corey Robinson (maybe, 23), Ansah (26), Taylor (26), Reid (maybe, 24), Wright (maybe, 23), Walker, (if re-signed (I'd like to see that), 25), Copeland (24), Levy (28), Bynes, (if re-signed (I'd like to see that), 26), Whitehead, (if re-signed (I'd like to see that), 25), Van Noy (maybe, 25), Alex Carter (maybe, 21), Diggs (23), Lawson (24), Slay (25), Abdul-Quddus (26), Isaiah Johnson (maybe, 23), even Quin at 30.

There are alot of "If-resigned" and "Maybes" in there, but they still have a chance at developing into contributing players too; we'll see about them. Still... that's just way too much young talent to start over at QB. Absolutely the wrong move to make. You have to develop all these young guys, there's too much talent there for a restart. There are holes to fill, and a lot of these guys (especially the maybes) have to get better, especially on the O-Line and at DT... but these are "Holes", not a "Rebuild Scenario". A good draft, sign a few quality FA's, no need to rebuild.

Trade Stafford, and if we don't have his high-level replacement already lined up, we're rebuilding. It's a struggle to win without a decent QB so that's almost automatic. As simple as that. That's not the right move. Quinn is going to be filling holes this first year or two. I don't see a rebuild anywhere in our near future either which, to me, is positive for Stafford's long-term future here...

3rd point: If we're trading Stafford, then we're drafting and developing his replacement this year. 3rd-5th round. If the guy becomes good enough, then we talk about trading Stafford, after a year or two, at best.

4th point: If the drafted QB doesn't become good enough, then we're not trading Stafford. We re-sign Stafford to his next extension or FA contract and I don't think we worry about the money, it's not going to destroy the team...

Those just my 'pinions...

Nobody is "too far away to throw draft picks at Stafford". If a team doesn't believe he's a franchise QB, so be it, but if they do you go out and get your QB and go from there. If you like a QB in the draft more, that's another story.

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I don't think 2016 is likely to be a lost season. Any trade that makes it less likely to win in 2016 wouldn't be worth it to me.

Yes, this.

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The only way I would think about trading Stafford is if a team offered their whole draft for Stafford. I mean round 1 though 7 picks.

I mentioned this before. Denver would need a QB badly if Manning retires. Wouldn't you offer your whole draft for Stafford knowing that you would probably be favored(with Stafford) to win next year's Super Bowl?

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The only way I would think about trading Stafford is if a team offered their whole draft for Stafford. I mean round 1 though 7 picks.

I mentioned this before. Denver would need a QB badly if Manning retires. Wouldn't you offer your whole draft for Stafford knowing that you would probably be favored(with Stafford) to win next year's Super Bowl?

Denver doesn't have many picks and they pick in the back half of the round. This entire draft thing does nothing for me unless they have multiple 1st and 2nd round picks. Not enthused about trading a QB for 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks.

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Would you guys do this trade?

Detroit gets:

Cleveland's 2016 1st and 2nd round pick plus WR Josh Gordon

Cleveland gets:

Matthew Stafford

Question:

When does Josh Gordon get a clean slate with his past NFL problems? I have heard/read different answers. Is it 24 months with no problems? Is it this season?

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Here's an example trade I could see being realistic and one I would probably take. It would have the Lions sending Stafford over to the Browns in exchange for Josh McCown and a bevy of draft picks. The logic behind the Browns taking on Stafford is that he is already a developed QB to go along with new head coach Hue Jackson's offense. Jackson getting Stafford as his QB means he has a greater chance (in the organization and his mind) to win now. Cleveland has been in an eternal search for a QB since drafting Tim Couch and watching him flame out back in 2000.

The Lions foremost reasoning for making this trade is that they would load up on high round draft picks and have a ton of flexibility to move down (or up) if they wanted t. They would have the flexibility to draft one of the rookie QB's at the #2 spot or trade back if they wanted to. They also get themselves a stop-gap QB, who preformed decent enough in 2015, given the talent he had to work with, before going down with an injury, in Josh McCown.

Lions Get: Browns #2 1st in 2016 1st + 2nd + 3rd + QB Josh McCown

Browns Get: QB Matt Stafford + 2016 4th

This also presents a situation where Josh Gordon could be thrown into the mix. I know it has been stated that Bob Quinn won't be bringing in guys with "character issues" but I think this is a unique scenario where the Lions could get an immediate, young, longterm replacement for Calvin in Gordon. I could see a deal with Gordon included looking something like this . . .

Lions Get: Browns #2 1st in 2016 1st + 2nd + QB Josh McCown + WR Josh Gordon

Browns Get: QB Matt Stafford + 2016 4th

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Would you guys do this trade?

Detroit gets:

Cleveland's 2016 1st and 2nd round pick plus WR Josh Gordon

Cleveland gets:

Matthew Stafford

Question:

When does Josh Gordon get a clean slate with his past NFL problems? I have heard/read different answers. Is it 24 months with no problems? Is it this season?

No. Maybe if the player was Joe Haden.

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Here's an example trade I could see being realistic and one I would probably take. It would have the Lions sending Stafford over to the Browns in exchange for Josh McCown and a bevy of draft picks. The logic behind the Browns taking on Stafford is that he is already a developed QB to go along with new head coach Hue Jackson's offense. Jackson getting Stafford as his QB means he has a greater chance (in the organization and his mind) to win now. Cleveland has been in an eternal search for a QB since drafting Tim Couch and watching him flame out back in 2000.

The Lions foremost reasoning for making this trade is that they would load up on high round draft picks and have a ton of flexibility to move down (or up) if they wanted t. They would have the flexibility to draft one of the rookie QB's at the #2 spot or trade back if they wanted to. They also get themselves a stop-gap QB, who preformed decent enough in 2015, given the talent he had to work with, before going down with an injury, in Josh McCown.

Lions Get: Browns #2 1st in 2016 1st + 2nd + 3rd + QB Josh McCown

Browns Get: QB Matt Stafford + 2016 4th

This also presents a situation where Josh Gordon could be thrown into the mix. I know it has been stated that Bob Quinn won't be bringing in guys with "character issues" but I think this is a unique scenario where the Lions could get an immediate, young, longterm replacement for Calvin in Gordon. I could see a deal with Gordon included looking something like this . . .

Lions Get: Browns #2 1st in 2016 1st + 2nd + QB Josh McCown + WR Josh Gordon

Browns Get: QB Matt Stafford + 2016 4th

Take away the 4th we are giving, keep GOrdon in there and include next year's 1st.

Not saying I do it, but that gets the value more accurate. Mccown changes teh value zero

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......Lions Get: Browns #2 1st in 2016 1st + 2nd + QB Josh McCown + WR Josh Gordon

Browns Get: QB Matt Stafford + 2016 4th

If this would actually happen(probably a major long shot), but what QB would the Lions draft? Goff? Lynch? Cook?

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It is my dream to trade Stafford for a career backup and a mystery grab bag.

And a potential #1 WR too, albeit one who is a suspension away from never playing a down in the NFL again.

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And a potential #1 WR too, albeit one who is a suspension away from never playing a down in the NFL again.

Even better. A receiver who hasn't played in a year and has serious character issues. Just what this team needs.

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Nobody is "too far away to throw draft picks at Stafford". If a team doesn't believe he's a franchise QB, so be it, but if they do you go out and get your QB and go from there. If you like a QB in the draft more, that's another story.

I beg to differ.

The only team trading for Stafford will be a playoff contender.

A team with too many holes/ too far away from the playoffs is NOT going to trade draft picks for Stafford. They might take your second option there, and trade draft picks for a Luck or an RG III (I'm not saying that the team doing this is making the right decision) or a similarly viewed "franchise QB" IN the draft. They are not going to do this with a 28-year old pretty good QB who is not elite.

(PS: Especially since Stafford is a Free Agent in two years. What less-than-marginal team is going to trade several high draft picks for a 28-y.o. QB soon to be a FA in 2 years? None. That makes no sense whatsoever. Trading for Stafford is a "Win Now" move and ONLY a "Win Now" move...)

Show me in history where a team with little possibility of making the playoffs trades multiple picks for a 28 year old really good QB.

I seem to remember this exact discussion between us before. And I think you came up with 1 team; but that team had recently been in the playoffs and had just had a bad year... IIRC. I don't know, for some reason this seems really familiar...

Edited by 84 Lives!!!

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PS: Why would the Browns do that trade you guys are talking about? Why wouldn't they just ride McCown for as long as they can (64% completion last year, 12-4 TD-Int ratio), keep all their draft picks, see if Gordon can turn it around and become the excellent receiver that he's capable of being (instead of selling him low), draft (or develop Manziel? uggh...) their "QB of the Future" this year or next year, build the team up with top-of-the-round draft picks this year and next year, and become a good team in 2018 with Goss or Cook or whomever?

Where is Stafford going to take them in two years? Into the Super Bowl? And then into his free agency?

Cleveland doesn't do that trade.

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Yeah, if I'm Cleveland I would much prefer drafting goff at 2 and keeping all my other picks and riding mccown until goff is ready.

There is no expectation of success a year after you picked fourth and in a coach's first year. Cleveland is exactly the team that should be keeping its picks, or even trading its vets for more picks.

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I beg to differ.

The only team trading for Stafford will be a playoff contender.

A team with too many holes/ too far away from the playoffs is NOT going to trade draft picks for Stafford. They might take your second option there, and trade draft picks for a Luck or an RG III (I'm not saying that the team doing this is making the right decision) or a similarly viewed "franchise QB" IN the draft. They are not going to do this with a 28-year old pretty good QB who is not elite.

(PS: Especially since Stafford is a Free Agent in two years. What less-than-marginal team is going to trade several high draft picks for a 28-y.o. QB soon to be a FA in 2 years? None. That makes no sense whatsoever. Trading for Stafford is a "Win Now" move and ONLY a "Win Now" move...)

Show me in history where a team with little possibility of making the playoffs trades multiple picks for a 28 year old really good QB.

I seem to remember this exact discussion between us before. And I think you came up with 1 team; but that team had recently been in the playoffs and had just had a bad year... IIRC. I don't know, for some reason this seems really familiar...

Every team wants to get a franchise QB, especially teams like Cleveland who haven't had one in decades. They aren't gonna say, uh, we aren't at a point in time where we are ready to have a good QB.

Also stop saying 28 year old like that's old. Guys Stafford's caliber are getting new extensions when they are 5+ years older than that

Edited by Nastradamus

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Every team wants to get a franchise QB, especially teams like Cleveland who haven't had one in decades. They aren't gonna say, uh, we aren't at a point in time where we are ready to have a good QB.

What will the lions, a team with a better chance to win, do to get a franchise QB?

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