Jump to content
John_Brian_K

Calvin Johnson Retires.

Recommended Posts

....with the turnover the Lions are going to see I have a hard time seeing them winning anything next year....

Turnover? Maybe CJ and some players that are easily replaceable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BetMGM Michigan $200 Free Offer - Launching Friday (1/22)

BetMGM Michigan Sports Betting
Michigan online sports betting is launching on Friday, January 22, 2021. Pre-register at BetMGM Sportsbook & Casino and get a free $200 bonus at their online sportsbook & casino with no deposit necessary.

Claim $200 at BetMGM Michigan Now

I don't think the league will allow a team to get the dead money removed from their cap.

Agreed. The cap is very complex and the controls are in place to keep teams from taking advantage of loop holes. I doubt the league would allow the Lions to void the contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed. The cap is very complex and the controls are in place to keep teams from taking advantage of loop holes. I doubt the league would allow the Lions to void the contract.

Even if both sides(CJ and the Lions) agree?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the radio in GR this morning they were all over this. They were upset that the Lions front office is even waiting. They were pushing for them to just cut him right now and take the dead money cap hit.

However there is an advantage for the Lions to CJ retiring vs. cutting him. If he retires then the Lions can try to get some of the signing bonus back in 2017 as a cap credit. So we're kinda in a "chicken" contest right now...

Assuming CJ really wants to be done (his body is worn out, he's already got plenty of money) and assuming the Lions are ready to be done with him (at 24 million for 2016, CJ isn't the player he was and would account for a huge chunk of the cap), then is a question on who blinks first:

If CJ retires the Lions get:

1.) Some cap relieve in 2017

2.) Little fan anger for cutting a super star, fan favorite.

3.) No worries that he signs with another team and ends up being super productive in 2016.

If the Lions cut CJ, he gets:

1.) His full signing bonus.

2.) The chance to look at other teams if he so desires.

So there's advantages to either side if the other side moves first. And of course, there's the "what if" situation where neither side blinks and you end up paying a guy who doesn't want to play anymore 24 Million to sit around and be unproductive.

One of the things they said on the radio that I really disagreed with was that the Lions have control of the situation and CJ has no "power" except what they give him. But I disagree. CJ, worst case scenario shows up to camp in 2016, "injuries" his back and isn't ever really able to play but collects ~$15 million and doesn't need to pay back any signing bonus money.

Note that I'm not imply he *would* do that, only that he could and therefore CJ DOES have some power in this situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Even if both sides(CJ and the Lions) agree?

Absolutely. Take for example, the following silly scenario:

Star player X and team Y make a deal. They sign star player X for 20 years with a $200 million dollar signing bonus and a $1 per year base salary. X and Y make an under the table agreement that after 10 years both sides will mutually agree to void the contract.

For ten years player X counts $11 million against the salary cap. Then before year 11 the team and player void the contract. The player still has the $200 million signing bonus... that was bonus money, not part of the contract. So the contract is dead and the team doesn't suffer anymore cap hits from it and only got an 11 million hit for 10 years.

But the player got payed $210 million for ten years! The team got a ~$20 million dollar player that only counted ~$10 per year against the cap.

There's no risk for the player here. What's the worst that could happen? If the team cuts him, he's still got all his signing bonus which is 95%+ of where he's making his money anyway.

And there's virtually no risk for the team either. What if the player doesn't mutually agree in the 11th year to void? Well, the player's only getting $1 million more for each year, chump change in NFL contract terms but then the team has control over him and can force him to do what they want (within football terms of course). If he thinks he's still able to play, he'd be much better off voiding the contract and trying out with another team to make more than just $1M per year. Remember, he still gets all $200 million signing bonus.

Obviously this isn't what is happening here with CJ and the Lions, but because of the quirks in how the salary cap works mutually voiding a contract could lead to situations like this where people are abusing the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If true, the Lions should talk to him and tell him that they want to void his contract completely to see if he agrees. When I say void the contract, I mean the Lions would have zero cap space going to CJ. Would the NFL allow that type of situation if both sides(Lions and CJ) agree?

No. Signing bonus money has already been paid and at best it would come off the books nexst year if he paid some of it back. This isn't really how it works though in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the lions to get any cap credit due to calvin's retirement, I believe that they have to formally go after repayment of the bonus. There is no guarantee that they would do so. Signing bonuses as part of a restructuring are tricky, because that money is often money that was owed under the previous contract and simply converted to a signing bonus to spread the cap hit over the additional years of the extension.

If it was a pure bonus that was added to his contract with the idea that it was intended to compensate him for a set number of years, then they would probably seek repayment of a portion of the bonus.

A retirement does open up the possibility of a cap credit, so it's obviously preferable to cutting him, but in the end it may not make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matthew Stafford will announce his retirement after the 2017 season. That's the life of a Lions fan. Best rusher in team history done by age 30, best receiver done by 30, and soon best QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much cap space does this clear actually up for us now and do we owe Calvin a roster bonus or is that forfeited with his retirement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How much cap space does this clear actually up for us now and do we owe Calvin a roster bonus or is that forfeited with his retirement?

I read an article that says 11.1 million has been cleared up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the lions to get any cap credit due to calvin's retirement, I believe that they have to formally go after repayment of the bonus. There is no guarantee that they would do so. Signing bonuses as part of a restructuring are tricky, because that money is often money that was owed under the previous contract and simply converted to a signing bonus to spread the cap hit over the additional years of the extension.

If it was a pure bonus that was added to his contract with the idea that it was intended to compensate him for a set number of years, then they would probably seek repayment of a portion of the bonus.

A retirement does open up the possibility of a cap credit, so it's obviously preferable to cutting him, but in the end it may not make a difference.

He doesn't have to repay the reporting bonus that was due March 9th.

Edit: Not true.

Lions mum on whether Calvin Johnson is paying back bonus money | ProFootballTalk

Like running back Barry Sanders, receiver Calvin Johnson has retired from the Lions with gas in the tank. Unlike Sanders, Johnson may not be paying back millions in bonus money.

The team’s announcement of Johnson’s decision to retire explains that, as to his contract, “matters were settled to the satisfaction of the parties.”

Technically, Johnson owed $3.2 million in previously paid but unearned signing bonus money. It’s entirely possible that the Lions opted to let Johnson keep the money. If so, it’s no surprise that they’d keep it quiet; the Lions don’t want other players to think they can walk away without financial consequence.

The timing of the move suggests that Johnson wanted to see whether the Lions would release his rights in order to avoid carrying a $24 million cap number into the 2016 league year — and that the Lions managed to finally persuade Johnson that they won’t be cutting him. And so Johnson instead retired as a member of the Lions. If he ever chooses to unretire he’ll do so as a member of the Lions, giving the Lions the ability to keep him at a base salary of $16 million.

So even though the Lions opted not to release Johnson now, chances are that, if he ever chooses to come back, the Lions would be far more likely to release him than to squat on his rights or to try to trade him to a new team.

It’s also possible that the decision to not pursue the $3.2 million hinges on Johnson’s agreement to retire and not return later.

Edited by cruzer1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read an article that says 11.1 million has been cleared up.

97.1 says $11 million and that Lions are potentially looking at Marvin Jones, Anquon Boldin and a few others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
97.1 says $11 million and that Lions are potentially looking at Marvin Jones, Anquon Boldin and a few others.

Hopefully Marvin Jones. Boldin is 35, and can't stretch defenses. He was a good player, but the Lions must stretch the field with more speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matthew Stafford will announce his retirement after the 2017 season. That's the life of a Lions fan. Best rusher in team history done by age 30, best receiver done by 30, and soon best QB.

Layne and Clark would disagree on that last bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the lions to get any cap credit due to calvin's retirement, I believe that they have to formally go after repayment of the bonus. There is no guarantee that they would do so. Signing bonuses as part of a restructuring are tricky, because that money is often money that was owed under the previous contract and simply converted to a signing bonus to spread the cap hit over the additional years of the extension.

If it was a pure bonus that was added to his contract with the idea that it was intended to compensate him for a set number of years, then they would probably seek repayment of a portion of the bonus.

A retirement does open up the possibility of a cap credit, so it's obviously preferable to cutting him, but in the end it may not make a difference.

Very good point Shelton. Depending on how all the of the bonus/contracts were worded or understood the Lions may not be able to get any bonus back. Additionally, for various reasons including PR, they simply might even try to get it back. So you're 100% right...

It's be better to say:

If CJ retires the Lions get:

1.) Possibly some cap relieve in 2017 if the Lions pursue it.

2.) Little fan anger for cutting a super star, fan favorite.

3.) No worries that he signs with another team and ends up being super productive in 2016.

#'s 2 and 3 are still accurate though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, good timing. Leave Calvin alone now people

No kidding. Some of the character attacks on him in this thread were ridiculous.

Good for Calvin to be at peace with this decision and good for the Lions to now have time to fill the need before free agency and the draft. Quinn now has lots of cap space to work with, should be interesting to see what he does with it. It's too bad that it's a pretty weak free agent and draft class for receivers, it'll have to be a receiver by committee for this upcoming season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Layne and Clark would disagree on that last bit.

Stafford is 10x better than both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stafford is 10x better than both.

It's pretty hard to compare different generations in football so while I readily admit that Stafford pure counting numbers far surpass Layne's or Clark's, I don't think that alone can be used to judge a player.

For example, Layne was a 6-time Pro-bowl selectee compared to Staffords 1.

Layne also led the NFL in passing yards twice and passing TDs once. Of course, he's got three NFL Championships and there's that little matter of being a Hall of Fame member.

There is ZERO question that Layne would fail if put up against Stafford in the NFL of the 2010s... but I suspect that Stafford might have a bit of an issues being successful in the 1950s NFL as well.

Stafford's career isn't over of course and I hope that in a couple of years I can confidently say that he's the best Lions QB of all time. But right here, right now... no, I can't say that with conviction. I would never agree that he's 10x better than Layne.

Do you honestly think that Stafford is a HOF QB right now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's pretty hard to compare different generations in football so while I readily admit that Stafford pure counting numbers far surpass Layne's or Clark's, I don't think that alone can be used to judge a player.

For example, Layne was a 6-time Pro-bowl selectee compared to Staffords 1.

Layne also led the NFL in passing yards twice and passing TDs once. Of course, he's got three NFL Championships and there's that little matter of being a Hall of Fame member.

There is ZERO question that Layne would fail if put up against Stafford in the NFL of the 2010s... but I suspect that Stafford might have a bit of an issues being successful in the 1950s NFL as well.

Stafford's career isn't over of course and I hope that in a couple of years I can confidently say that he's the best Lions QB of all time. But right here, right now... no, I can't say that with conviction. I would never agree that he's 10x better than Layne.

Do you honestly think that Stafford is a HOF QB right now?

Based on numbers, Stafford is close to being on a hall of fame pace. He is putting up some numbers that no other QB has put up at his age. The NFL rates quarterbacks a lot on how many SuperBowls you won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting side note on Layne, which as no bearing what-so-ever on him v. Stafford as best QB of Lions:

Layne was quite an accomplished college pitcher. From his Wiki page:

Layne was one of the best pitchers to ever play at Texas. He made the All-Southwest Conference team all four years he played, and played on teams that won all three Conference Championships available to them (none was named in 1944 due to World War II).

He won his first career start, in 1944 when he was managed by his future football coach Blair Cherry, versus Southwestern, 14-1, in a complete game 15 strikeout performance.

Similar to football, he missed the 1945 season because he was in the Merchant Marines, but returned to play three more seasons.

In 1946, he threw the school's first and second no-hitters and posted a 12-4 record.

In 1947, he went 12-1 and led Texas to a 3rd-place finish in the first NCAA baseball Tournament.

In 1948, he went 9-0 and again helped Texas win the Southwest Conference but, though they qualified for it, Texas decided not to attend the 1948 NCAA tournament because the players felt they had too many obligations with family and jobs.

Texas went 60-10 overall, and 41-2 in the SWC during Layne's final three years in Austin. When his career was over, Layne had a perfect 28-0 conference record and set several school and conference records during his time on the team, including a few that still stand today.

He played one year in the minors and had offers from the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Giants to pitch for them, but wanted to go for the NFL were he could play right away rather than work through more years in the minors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Based on numbers, Stafford is close to being on a hall of fame pace. He is putting up some numbers that no other QB has put up at his age. The NFL rates quarterbacks a lot on how many SuperBowls you won.

I wouldn't completely disagree, but the keys here are "on pace" and "some numbers." I'm asking right now... if Stafford suffered a career ending injury, is he even in the HOF debate? The reason I'm asking is that I would expect a guy who is 10x better than an existing HOF QB should at least be in the HOF debate right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

Michigan is launching online sports betting and casino apps on Friday, January 22, 2021. These top Michigan sportsbooks have pre-launch bonus offers. No deposit is required. Terms and conditions apply.

BetRivers Michigan - If you sign up at BetRivers Michigan now, you will receive $50 in free bets to use one their online sportsbook & casino

Click Here to claim $50 at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Now

FanDuel Michigan - If you register now before FanDuel launches in January, you will receive $100 to use at their sportsbook app & online casino.

Click Here to claim $100 at FanDuel Michigan For Registering Now

BetMGM Michigan - If you sign up early at BetMGM Michigan before launch, you will receive $200 in free bets to use at their online casino & sportsbook

Click Here to claim $200 at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Early

   


×
×
  • Create New...