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mickeyb105

Jennings after five games back

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Would you deal Jennings to reunite the Morris twins? Phoenix looking to sell...

Still scared to get those knuckleheads together. But that would be pretty tempting.

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Still scared to get those knuckleheads together. But that would be pretty tempting.

Throw in Archie Goodwin, and let's make a deal!

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It's only five games. But Tolliver loves himself some Jennings. Top is Jennings off the court. Bottom is with him on.

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Jackson has fantastic physical tools to be a good defender. Tall, long, really quick. I think its more of an effort thing with him. I think the tools are there.

To be fair, he has to expend a ton of energy on offense.

I think this is exactly it with him. As long as he buckles down on defense in the fourth quarter, I am okay with him conserving energy the rest of the game. That doesn't mean not trying and letting guys blow by you but there is difference between that and going out all out 100 percent to shut somebody down.

Jennings also has the tools but I have never seen him really excel on defense at any part of the game. The other night when Isaiah Thomas was tearing us about in the 4th quarter, Jennings would be the guy to go to. But you can't trust him. If there is a coach who can get the most out of him, it is SVG.

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Read on BR today that we have a top 5 offense with RJ on the floor and a bottom 3 offense when he's of the floor. That's pretty extreme but will hopefully change with BJ back.

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I think this is exactly it with him. As long as he buckles down on defense in the fourth quarter, I am okay with him conserving energy the rest of the game. That doesn't mean not trying and letting guys blow by you but there is difference between that and going out all out 100 percent to shut somebody down.

Jennings also has the tools but I have never seen him really excel on defense at any part of the game. The other night when Isaiah Thomas was tearing us about in the 4th quarter, Jennings would be the guy to go to. But you can't trust him. If there is a coach who can get the most out of him, it is SVG.

Jackson is a horrific defender, no matter how hard you try to justify it. Jennings isn't quite as bad, but still absolutely terrible. Jennings was using just as much energy on offense last year as Jackson is this year.

And Jennings doesn't have the physical tools Jackson does to be a good defender.

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Read on BR today that we have a top 5 offense with RJ on the floor and a bottom 3 offense when he's of the floor. That's pretty extreme but will hopefully change with BJ back.

Can you post the article?

I see Jackson with a 104.8 Ortg when on the court. That doesn't even put the offensive above league average when he is on the floor. So curious to see how they measured it.

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Jackson is a horrific defender, no matter how hard you try to justify it. Jennings isn't quite as bad, but still absolutely terrible. Jennings was using just as much energy on offense last year as Jackson is this year.

And Jennings doesn't have the physical tools Jackson does to be a good defender.

Seems odd it would be an effort issue since the kid seems fairly driven. Maybe he lacks anticipation skill. It's easier to put your athleticism to work on what you initiate than to be able to use it to counter what you have to read and correctly respond to. I guess the proof will be in whether he can get any better.

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Jackson is a horrific defender, no matter how hard you try to justify it. Jennings isn't quite as bad, but still absolutely terrible. Jennings was using just as much energy on offense last year as Jackson is this year.

And Jennings doesn't have the physical tools Jackson does to be a good defender.

Quick thoughts on these:

--Jackson has shown he can lock down when he focuses, has BJ ever really focused on keeping his man in front of him? Jackson is certainly suited better to defend shooting guards than Jennings, but prolly another thread.

--BJ, at least pre-injury, played defense with his hands too much and not his feet in spite of being very quick. I don't consider Jackson to be as quick as Jennings used to be, just bigger and stronger.

--Pre-injury, Jennings certainly had the quicks to keep up with just about any point guard in the world. Are you saying that he doesn't have the tools now post-injury, or are you implying that you don't feel he is physically big enough to stop NBA point guards? Do you really have to be big to stay in front of point guards, most of whom aren't going to be exploiting small point guards via the post? Good defenders come in all sizes. And yes, I know that quicks doesn't make up for poor technique at the NBA level.

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Quick thoughts on these:

--Jackson has shown he can lock down when he focuses, has BJ ever really focused on keeping his man in front of him? Jackson is certainly suited better to defend shooting guards than Jennings, but prolly another thread.

--BJ, at least pre-injury, played defense with his hands too much and not his feet in spite of being very quick. I don't consider Jackson to be as quick as Jennings used to be, just bigger and stronger.

--Pre-injury, Jennings certainly had the quicks to keep up with just about any point guard in the world. Are you saying that he doesn't have the tools now post-injury, or are you implying that you don't feel he is physically big enough to stop NBA point guards? Do you really have to be big to stay in front of point guards, most of whom aren't going to be exploiting small point guards via the post? Good defenders come in all sizes. And yes, I know that quicks doesn't make up for poor technique at the NBA level.

I have never seen Jackson lock anyone down. He might focus a bit more, shoot the passing lanes a little more and get a steal here and there. But lock someone down? Not that I have ever seen.

Look at the Bulls game a few weeks ago. Rose destroyed him and Rose has been terrible for three years now.

Jennings is quick, or was before the injury. But that doesn't give someone the tools to play defense. A perimeter players best tool is length or wingspan. Jackson has that in spades, Jennings doesn't. Jennings is short, so other PGs can pass over the top, where its harder to do on a bigger Jackson. Jackson can defend in the post better, where Jennings will struggle.

It todays game, I'm not sure its about staying in front of someone. The rules make it so diffuclt to do, so many screens, PnR's. Its m ore important to fight over those than stay in front of someone.

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Lock down was too strong, let's just say get a stop when the teams needs it.

Rose is still a threat to go off, on anyone. He just can't do it every other game anymore.

According to some hopheads online and abroad, Jennings sports a freakish 6'11" wingspan himself--just 2" shorter than Jackson's. I have no way of confirming this, but seriously, eyeball his arms sometime.

You have to play defense with you feet and with your brain on the perimeter, that will never change. Wingspan does make up for a lot of sins both in and out of the paint.

How many times is Jennings going to really get posted up per game over a whole season? I would be shocked if it is over like 1.2 times per.

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Absolutely not. DWS is more team oriented than individual.

Jennings DRPM last year, -1.41. Jackson this year, -2.03. Jennings was better, but still awful.

Jackson was better than Jennings the previous two seasons in DRPM.

I don't quite understand the difference between DBPM and DRPM but looking at DBPM, Jackson has been consistently better the last 5 years.

Edited by Hart

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Jackson was better than Jennings the previous two seasons in DRPM.

I don't quite understand the difference between DBPM and DRPM but looking at DBPM, Jackson has been consistently better the last 5 years.

Who put up the better numbers in the same system?

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Who put up the better numbers in the same system?

I thought DRPM was supposed to be unbiased towards this. Regardless, Jackson was with the Pistons 27 games last year and 37 games this year so it is a wash. We are talking about very small sample sizes here.

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Lock down was too strong, let's just say get a stop when the teams needs it.

Rose is still a threat to go off, on anyone. He just can't do it every other game anymore.

According to some hopheads online and abroad, Jennings sports a freakish 6'11" wingspan himself--just 2" shorter than Jackson's. I have no way of confirming this, but seriously, eyeball his arms sometime.

You have to play defense with you feet and with your brain on the perimeter, that will never change. Wingspan does make up for a lot of sins both in and out of the paint.

How many times is Jennings going to really get posted up per game over a whole season? I would be shocked if it is over like 1.2 times per.

I have a feeling if we went down to the Palace with a tape measure, I would be winning a prop bet.

Jennings wasn't measured, but if you look at the DE measurement history, nobody his height has ever come close to a 6'11" wingspan. 6'8 is the highest with most at 6'6 or lower. That would make Jennings a freak of nature and everyone would be talking about it. You can't watch a Spurs game without them mentioning Leonards length, and that guy is a freak of nature with his length.

Plus, I have seen Jennings next to guys like Knight and Teague, guys with known measurements at 6'5 and 6'6 and he is equal or even maybe a bit smaller than those two.

Will Jennings get posted? Regular season, probably not much. In the playoffs? Yes. When teams have 48-72 hours between games, multiple practices and/or walk throughs per game, the smallest flaws get exploited. Heck, I remember little Mike Bibby taking Jennings into the post a bit. Now, Jennings was what? Only 19 then, but Bibby probably had 20-25 pounds on him. Imagine what one of these big guards could do. A Wall, Kyrie, etc.

And it isn't just about getting posted. Its fighting through and over screens. When Jennings gets over that screen and the ball handler has him on his shoulder, the strongest person wins the spot. Jennings either ends up in front of him or on his back. Footwork and quickness wont help there, its strength.

Kind of a pointless discussion though, both guys are bad.

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I thought DRPM was supposed to be unbiased towards this. Regardless, Jackson was with the Pistons 27 games last year and 37 games this year so it is a wash. We are talking about very small sample sizes here.

You remember the comment about SVG's PG's expending a ton of energy on offense, which means they probably don't/can't give max effort on D? Thats the system and I don't know anyway for a metric to take that into account.

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The more I think about it the more I like Jackson off the ball with Jennings at point.

KCP becomes a bigger version of Lindsey Hunter off the bench.

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...

Jennings wasn't measured, but if you look at the DE measurement history, nobody his height has ever come close to a 6'11" wingspan. 6'8 is the highest with most at 6'6 or lower. That would make Jennings a freak of nature and everyone would be talking about it. You can't watch a Spurs game without them mentioning Leonards length, and that guy is a freak of nature with his length.

...

The other thing about length is that it's value falls somewhat if you attach it to a body that doesn't have proportional skeletal strength and leverage to move it well. A set of genes that just hangs a long humerus, ulna and radius on a guy with a narrow torso and shoulders with no leverage and all you get is Tashaun.

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Jackson was better than Jennings the previous two seasons in DRPM.

I don't quite understand the difference between DBPM and DRPM but looking at DBPM, Jackson has been consistently better the last 5 years.

Two different formulas for arriving at the same type of number

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The more I think about it the more I like Jackson off the ball with Jennings at point.

KCP becomes a bigger version of Lindsey Hunter off the bench.

I like one of the playmakers coming off the bench. I'd rather have the bigger guy who defends well in the starting lineup. Both PGs in the 4th though, with KCP an option at the 3. Picking nits mostly, as one of them would likely always be on the court, but I think bringing a playmaker off the bench gives your team energy.

Jackson isn't perfect as a PG, but he does have a 38 assist rate.

My biggest issue with Jennings? He reminds me of not having Middleton...

Edited by Nastradamus

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I like one of the playmakers coming off the bench. I'd rather have the bigger guy who defends well in the starting lineup. Both PGs in the 4th though, with KCP an option at the 3. Picking nits mostly, as one of them would likely always be on the court, but I think bringing a playmaker off the bench gives your team energy.

Jackson isn't perfect as a PG, but he does have a 38 assist rate.

My biggest issue with Jennings? He reminds me of not having Middleton...

Middleton has got it turned around the past 10 games or so. And I feel your pain.

Jackson has a very high assist rate, but on a team who ranks second to last in assists per/100 in the league.

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Middleton has got it turned around the past 10 games or so. And I feel your pain.

Jackson has a very high assist rate, but on a team who ranks second to last in assists per/100 in the league.

Yah, his shooting and defense at the 3 just seems like such a perfect fit right now

and true, but that's probably more an issue of not having a SF or SG who is a particularly good playmaker. I do think having Jennings back over Blake will help

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I have a feeling if we went down to the Palace with a tape measure, I would be winning a prop bet.

Jennings wasn't measured, but if you look at the DE measurement history, nobody his height has ever come close to a 6'11" wingspan. 6'8 is the highest with most at 6'6 or lower. That would make Jennings a freak of nature and everyone would be talking about it. You can't watch a Spurs game without them mentioning Leonards length, and that guy is a freak of nature with his length.

Plus, I have seen Jennings next to guys like Knight and Teague, guys with known measurements at 6'5 and 6'6 and he is equal or even maybe a bit smaller than those two.

Will Jennings get posted? Regular season, probably not much. In the playoffs? Yes. When teams have 48-72 hours between games, multiple practices and/or walk throughs per game, the smallest flaws get exploited. Heck, I remember little Mike Bibby taking Jennings into the post a bit. Now, Jennings was what? Only 19 then, but Bibby probably had 20-25 pounds on him. Imagine what one of these big guards could do. A Wall, Kyrie, etc.

And it isn't just about getting posted. Its fighting through and over screens. When Jennings gets over that screen and the ball handler has him on his shoulder, the strongest person wins the spot. Jennings either ends up in front of him or on his back. Footwork and quickness wont help there, its strength.

Kind of a pointless discussion though, both guys are bad.

I have the urge all of a sudden to leave the perfect FL weather and head to Detroit and win a prop bet. I have yet to find a "definitive" source on what BJ's true wingspan is, but it is definitely very long. Is it really 6'11"? Well, it is on NBA 2K16, but obviously it is not the same as getting the info from DE.

From NBA DRAFT.NET: " His wingspan and leaping ability put him in a rare category of point guards."

Brandon-Jennings1.jpg

Do I think BJ's wingspan is really 6'11"? Likely it is in the neighborhood of 6'7" or 6'8", which is still very long for a point guard. Likely in the top 20% for the position. 6' tall guys don't two-hand dunk unless they have ungodly hops or ungodly reach, and both certainly helps. The list of 6' guys I've seen dunk--without an alley-oop--with any kind of authority is not a long one.

amd-bucks-brandon-jennings-jpg.jpg

Any vet point guard that can't absolutely take a rookie point guard to the cleaners in the NBA should be ashamed of himself. Jennings being posted in the playoffs isn't much of a concern of mine, while him keeping his man in front of him is. Plus, I'll be pretty disappointed if SVG doesn't trade him for something of worth by then.

As for screens, of course it is hard for someone tiny to fight through screens unless they are smart and/or determined. When has Jennings ever been determined to do anything on defense? It is up to the coaching staff to hide a defensive liability like BJ in these situations, doing things like making KCP guard the point guard and just dealing with it if the opposing team decides to abuse Jennings on the block. This is where SVG needs to earn his money.

And what exactly is your definition of "fighting through a screen"? They still call fouls in the playoffs, even it is never on LBJ. At the end of the day, you either go over or around the pick. Are bigs less willing to set picks on jacked guys like Bledsoe? IDK, it would be an interesting poll, but my bet is the pick is still coming no mater if it is Jennings or Vinnie Johnson.

Further, switching off the PnR for a team with as many versatile players such as the Pistons should be a doable task as long as we aren't talking about Ersan. The PnR teams we really need to worry about is the Cavs and the Hawks in the EC, so color me unworried at this point in the team's development.

Back to my point on BJ "lacking" physical tools pre-injury, I stand by it--happily. It is all about technique and desire in his case.

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