Jump to content

RedRamage

Putting Tram and Lou in the Hall together?

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Yoda said:

A millionaire showing up in a limo got national attention? 

Yes. It was a 'scandal'.  People didn't like that millionaires were on strike and showing up to meetings in a limo. The media was upset about it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Biff Mayhem said:

In:

Chipper - no brainer

Thome - no brainer

Hoffman - no brainer

Vald - not a no brainer to me but understood. I hope they put him in as an Expo.

I would not have voted for Hoffman given how loaded the ballot was. There were at least ten players who I thought were more deserving.  It was surprising how much support Guerrero got.  I think he belongs, but I was surprised he got in so quickly and with 90+% of the votes.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I would not have voted for Hoffman given how loaded the ballot was. There were at least ten players who I thought were more deserving.  It was surprising how much support Guerrero got.  I think he belongs, but I was surprised he got in so quickly and with 90+% of the votes.  

When the next closest below you on the all time saves leader is 123 behind and you were only surpassed by the greatest closer in the closer era, you're in HOF company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Biff Mayhem said:

When the next closest below you on the all time saves leader is 123 behind and you were only surpassed by the greatest closer in the closer era, you're in HOF company.

I think it is OK that he made it.  I just believe there were a lot of players on this ballot that were more deserving than him.   Relievers do have a big influence on winning games, so they need to be represented.  However, relievers are basically failed starters so top starters like Mussina and Schilling need to take priority. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Biff Mayhem said:

In:

Chipper - no brainer

Thome - no brainer

Hoffman - no brainer

Vald - not a no brainer to me but understood. I hope they put him in as an Expo.

Vlad is going in as an Angel.  He said it was a tough decision but that's what he decided.  The Hall has final say but they wouldn't overrule him on this... they only do that for silly ones, like Wade Boggs allegedly  having it in his contract to go in as a Devil Ray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andruw Jones really deserved better, same with Johan but considering Santana's relatively short career I can understand that but still the guy was the best pitcher in baseball for half a decade, to me that means more than a compiler. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Biff Mayhem said:

When the next closest below you on the all time saves leader is 123 behind and you were only surpassed by the greatest closer in the closer era, you're in HOF company.

I don't have strong feeling on Hoffman, but I would say that saves are a trash stat.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Oblong said:

Vlad is going in as an Angel.  He said it was a tough decision but that's what he decided.  The Hall has final say but they wouldn't overrule him on this... they only do that for silly ones, like Wade Boggs allegedly  having it in his contract to go in as a Devil Ray.

I hate it.  He's an Expo.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I don't have strong feeling on Hoffman, but I would say that saves are a trash stat.

He has the second highest WPA ever as well.  The problem is he was able to compile stats like that because he was used more often in high leverage situations than anyone else.  Who's to say that an average starter could not have done the same thing if used the same way?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

I hate it.  He's an Expo.

Every Expo should be an Expo unless he was also a Tiger.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Every Expo should be an Expo unless he was also a Tiger.  

I think Le Grand Orange is the obvious exception to this rule.  If he ever makes it in, he has to be an Expo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, tiger337 said:

He has the second highest WPA ever as well.  The problem is he was able to compile stats like that because he was used more often in high leverage situations than anyone else.  Who's to say that an average starter could not have done the same thing if used the same way?  

High leverage meaning some games with a 3 run lead and needing only 3 outs?  Or does WPA differentiate between a 1 run lead and a 3 run lead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, tiger337 said:

He has the second highest WPA ever as well.  The problem is he was able to compile stats like that because he was used more often in high leverage situations than anyone else.  Who's to say that an average starter could not have done the same thing if used the same way?  

I think we’ve seen a lot of average starters fail at being able to do that. If an average starter is out in that role now and has Hoffman’s career, maybe he will make the hall of fame, too (but probably not because the voters 20 years from now probably wouldn’t elect a guy like Hoffman).

Either way, Hoffman actually did it.

I wouldn’t say Hoffman is great because he got all of those saves. But I would say he got all of those saves because he was great. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

I hate it.  He's an Expo.

Youppi is crying in room somewhere in eastern Quebec listening to Madame Butterfly and turning the light on and off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shelton said:

I think we’ve seen a lot of average starters fail at being able to do that. If an average starter is out in that role now and has Hoffman’s career, maybe he will make the hall of fame, too (but probably not because the voters 20 years from now probably wouldn’t elect a guy like Hoffman).

Either way, Hoffman actually did it.

I wouldn’t say Hoffman is great because he got all of those saves. But I would say he got all of those saves because he was great. 

I don't know that there have been a lot of them.  An average starter is too good to move from a rotation.  

I agree that Hoffman actually did it and you can't deal in what ifs after all is said and done.  I would however have a much higher threshold for a reliever making the hall of fame than a starter.  Given how deep the ballot was this year, I wouldn't have been able to include Hoffman as one of my 10.  I think it would have been easier for Mussina to have Hoffman's career than it would have been for Hoffman to have Mussina's career.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I don't know that there have been a lot of them.  An average starter is too good to move from a rotation.  

I agree that Hoffman actually did it and you can't deal in what ifs after all is said and done.  I would however have a much higher threshold for a reliever making the hall of fame than a starter.  Given how deep the ballot was this year, I wouldn't have been able to include Hoffman as one of my 10.  I think it would have been easier for Mussina to have Hoffman's career than it would have been for Hoffman to have Mussina's career.    

I guess my point is simply that I have no issue with Hoffman being in the hall of fame given his actual accomplishments. Whether he should have been one of the top 10 guys on the ballot is kind of a different issue for me. On the one hand, if it’s a simple ranking of the players, he might not make the top 10. But given the we know some of the guys we might have ahead of him won’t be elected this season, I have no problem giving him a vote instead of a guy that won’t be close. 

The 10 person limit is stupid. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It occurred to me yesterday.  Has anyone ever heard Vladimir Guerrero speak?  I recall he was in a commercial once for maybe the all star game or maybe a soft drink commercial, but he didn't have a speaking role.  Rumor was he incredibly shy with public speaking and there was the language barrier.  Even with that, don't you usually hear an interview or a speech or something from one of the more talented guys in the league?  I'm not trying to be critical of him.  It just seems an oddity to have a HOF that really never was in much of the spotlight at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DaYooperASBDT said:

Nah - just managed to slip out of her handcuffs for a few.  Good to see you sir!

Stop by more often please.  Yes, it's true that you lower the average IQ points on the board, but we value your insights nonetheless.

I have to admit this, I couldn't have even told you that Guerrero had ever played for the Angels.  That must have existed in some alternate universe.  So him with an Angels hat in the HOF is blasphemy.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have loved to hear Claude Mouton - Expos PA Announcer say "Vladimir Guerrero"  I died before Guerrero's career started though.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      96,315
    • Total Posts
      2,855,398
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...