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Shinma

1/3/16. Lions at Bears. Week 17. 1:05pm, FOX.

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Funny that you mention Brees and Manning.

1) Stafford has a very similar career arc to Manning

First 5 seasons for Manning: 3 playoff losses) First 7(really 6) Seasons for Stafford: 2 playoff losses, 1 season wiped out by injury

Tons of gaudy Stats. Considered un-clutch by many. Stafford is breaking almost all of Manning's age based records.

2) Brees was run out of town exactly how you are proposing to run Stafford out. And yet you cite him as an example QB that should be kept.

I think he meant Eli since Eli is better than Peyton since he won more SuperBowls.

*EDIT* I know he means Eli because I follow the NFL.

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This is a QB driven league now and QB's are judged on winning. It's just how it is. Besides, it's not like Stafford has lit the world on fire his entire career and this team just refused to win.

Since 2009, this franchise has built around Stafford. They have dedicated a lot of money and 1st/2nd/3rd round draft picks on offense to give him them best possible chance to succeed. Im going to go out on a limb and say it hasnt really worked out the way everyone has hoped.

So why would i want to continue something that hasnt really worked out for the 1st 7 years, for another 7 years? To me, that's just insane. I think this team needs to close the window on the Stafford CJ era and go in a completely different direction.

Stafford's biggest weakness, in my speculative opinion, is that he is too prone to put all of the responsibility and blame on himself, trying throws no other QB could consider, and that he doesn't do enough to hold others (players, coaches, management) accountable.

Would Payton Manning or Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger have put up with a season and a half of Lombardi's offense? I suspect we would have seen each of them laying into Lombardi on the sideline after having the snot knocked out of themselves in one of Lombardi's ridiculous blocking schemes. I don't ever recall Stafford doing this.

Admittedly this is a high standard to hold Stafford to. But that's the price of having Hall of Fame ability. Stafford could still win Super Bowls and put on the gold jacket... or he could end up with the longest .500 career of any QB in history.

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My mathemagician brain suggests that if 'good' defenses got dunked on by every good QB and 'bad' defenses were destroyed by every bad QB, there wouldn't be any good or bad defenses

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Stafford's biggest weakness, in my speculative opinion, is that he is too prone to put all of the responsibility and blame on himself, trying throws no other QB could consider, and that he doesn't do enough to hold others (players, coaches, management) accountable.

Would Payton Manning or Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger have put up with a season and a half of Lombardi's offense? I suspect we would have seen each of them laying into Lombardi on the sideline after having the snot knocked out of themselves in one of Lombardi's ridiculous blocking schemes. I don't ever recall Stafford doing this.

Admittedly this is a high standard to hold Stafford to. But that's the price of having Hall of Fame ability. Stafford could still win Super Bowls and put on the gold jacket... or he could end up with the longest .500 career of any QB in history.

I see Stafford barking at his teammates quite often during games when they screw up. I've also seen way less of those gunslinger throws. That's why people like his improvement.

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Since 2009, this franchise has built around Stafford. They have dedicated a lot of money and 1st/2nd/3rd round draft picks on offense to give him them best possible chance to succeed. Im going to go out on a limb and say it hasnt really worked out the way everyone has hoped.

Also worth pointing out that nearly everyone here agrees that the Lions did a pretty piss poor job of drafting during much of Stafford's tenure here.

Stafford was drafted in '09... since then the offensive players taken in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round are:

2009: Pettigrew, WR Derrick Williams

2010: Javid Best

2011: Titus Young, Mikel Leshoure

2012: Reily Reiff, Ryan Broyles

2013: Larry Warford

2014: Eric Ebron, Travis Swanson

2015: Laken Tomlinson, Ameer Abdullah

Of those, who would you even classify as a good (ie, better than average replacement player)? Pettigrew maybe. Reiff possibly... Warford probably, if he can stay healthy. Tomlinson and Abdullah show promise, but it's still early.

I guess what I'm saying is that if it's true the Lions have built the team around Stafford, then they did a bad job of it. It's like we've built a house with an bit above average roof on it, then used some average, some good, and some poor materials to build the walls... then when the house comes down we blame the roof saying it's the most important part.

Stafford needs to be better... no question there. WAY too many times in the first half of the season even when he had open receivers and time to throw he missed his targets. But there's also lots of issues around him that need work as well. I think the Lions can be a very good team offensively with Stafford and a good OL and a good running game.

As I said before, I'd love to upgrade at QB if it's possible. BUT, I think there's enough other holes... BIGGER holes, that upgrading the QB won't fix them.

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My mathemagician brain suggests that if 'good' defenses got dunked on by every good QB and 'bad' defenses were destroyed by every bad QB, there wouldn't be any good or bad defenses

Post of the year.

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Stafford's biggest weakness, in my speculative opinion, is that he is too prone to put all of the responsibility and blame on himself, trying throws no other QB could consider,...

Like say, Marino when the Fish weren't good, or Farve for most of his career until Holgrem finally sat on him hard enough to mostly (though never completely) break him of it?

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I see Stafford barking at his teammates quite often during games when they screw up. I've also seen way less of those gunslinger throws. That's why people like his improvement.

I agree. He seems to have turned a corner this season. As soon as Lombardi got fired. Maybe he realizes he could have pushed Lombardi harder, and sooner, to quit running his Mickey Mouse offense, and now he feels like he can own the offense more under Jim Bob.

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FWIW it's pretty obvious that Stafford improved under Cooter.

I've mentioned it before, but it isn't uncommon for any man to improve some when he has access to cooter.

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I've mentioned it before, but it isn't uncommon for any man to improve some when he has access to cooter.

Tell that to Roy Hobbes!

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I've mentioned it before, but it isn't uncommon for any man to improve some when he has access to cooter.

Under normal circumstances, you are correct.

BUT, if you have access to too much of it like some dudes, you could get into major trouble.

Some amazing examples of dudes that had too much cooter:

Sports Stars with too much Cooter Link

Evander Holyfield - Has 11 children that he knows of with 8 women.

Bennie Blades - 6 children with 6 women.

Charles Rogers - 7 children with a lot of women.

etc. etc. etc.

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