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Shinma

Happy Thanksgiving! Eagles at Lions, week 12. 12:30pm, FOX.

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I think head to head is number 1 tiebreaker, so the Lions are doomed if they both finished 9-7.

A Lions 9-7 team would probably have a better chance of beating out the Packers. Packers would be 7-5 if they lose to the Lions next week and if they then split their 4 remaining games they'd finish 9-7 too with the Lions holding the tiebreaker. I could also see the Vikings being 7-6 after their next games @Atlanta, Seattle, and @Arizona - they hold the tiebreaker over the Lions though.

Edited by lordstanley

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Would be better if the Vikings won out.

I think the simplest way in is to match the Packers and Falcons at 9-7. A more complicated possibility is to hope for either SEA/MIN to stay at 8 wins and then win a tie-breaker against someone else (Atlanta)--Minnesota and Seattle have pretty tough schedules going forward. Should know more in a few days after ATL/MIN and SEA/PIT play.

The ideal scenario is CHI beat MIN and GB beat MIN and a 3-way (or 4-way) tie at 9-7 would favor the Lions. GB would have to lose to Zona and either Dallas or Oakland for that to work.

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I'm not in favor of keeping Caldwell, but I'm gonna be really bummed if we lose either Austin or Cooter this offseason. Would like to see Austin get the head coaching job, keep Cooter as OC. It's beginning to look (to me) like we finally have an OC who understands how to use this team's strengths properly. And all of a sudden the players look more valuable, what a shock. Stafford is dong what he most enjoys and does best -- let's please do more of it!

Man, I have been in the worst football funk this year, the Lions have been so disappointing. I can finally read this board again and watch other games without just getting pissed and depressed. The last 3 weeks have been so pleasant -- now if we can just sweep the Pack...

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I'm not in favor of keeping Caldwell, but I'm gonna be really bummed if we lose either Austin or Cooter this offseason. Would like to see Austin get the head coaching job, keep Cooter as OC. It's beginning to look (to me) like we finally have an OC who understands how to use this team's strengths properly. And all of a sudden the players look more valuable, what a shock. Stafford is dong what he most enjoys and does best -- let's please do more of it!

Man, I have been in the worst football funk this year, the Lions have been so disappointing. I can finally read this board again and watch other games without just getting pissed and depressed. The last 3 weeks have been so pleasant -- now if we can just sweep the Pack...

I think it is hilarious people are already clamoring for Cooter to remain the OC. He has been OC for four games (but, let's not even count the awful London game) and in the first two Stafford threw for an average of 262 yards, 2 TD, and 1 INT. Extremely pedestrian. But now, after a thumping of the hapless Eagles people are acting as if he is some sort of miracle worker. This isn't to say he can't be a good OC, but lets get a little more of a sample before we start stating that we will be bummed with him being lost. This could just be either 1) a small sample size or (and most likely the case, IMO) 2) him just not being Joe Lombardi who was terrible and kept on the staff for much too long.

And keep in mind, Jamis Winston who has been playing very poorly for a vast majority of the season also torched the Eagles for 5 TD to 5 different receivers. So all I'm saying is lets at least let the end of the season play out before anointing Cooter as anything more than an OC who doesn't suck as much as Lombardi. I'm glad Cooter is doing the obvious (utilizing Stafford and Calvin) but just because he is doing something Lombardi was foolishly avoiding doesn't mean there aren't multiple OC who could get even more out of the offense.

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I think it is hilarious people are already clamoring for Cooter to remain the OC. He has been OC for four games (but, let's not even count the awful London game) and in the first two Stafford threw for an average of 262 yards, 2 TD, and 1 INT. Extremely pedestrian. But now, after a thumping of the hapless Eagles people are acting as if he is some sort of miracle worker. This isn't to say he can't be a good OC, but lets get a little more of a sample before we start stating that we will be bummed with him being lost. This could just be either 1) a small sample size or (and most likely the case, IMO) 2) him just not being Joe Lombardi who was terrible and kept on the staff for much too long.

And keep in mind, Jamis Winston who has been playing very poorly for a vast majority of the season also torched the Eagles for 5 TD to 5 different receivers. So all I'm saying is lets at least let the end of the season play out before anointing Cooter as anything more than an OC who doesn't suck as much as Lombardi. I'm glad Cooter is doing the obvious (utilizing Stafford and Calvin) but just because he is doing something Lombardi was foolishly avoiding doesn't mean there aren't multiple OC who could get even more out of the offense.

Sure,all this is obviously true. I think its more of an "if this the offense continues to trend up" situation. All Cooter has proven so far is that he's not retarded like Lombardi really. While I'm sure there are good OCs that could do the job, if Stafford shows a high level of comfort and success under Cooter, you have to be careful about changing OCs IMO. That messes with a QB, especially one without a high margin for error like Stafford.

What I do like is that Stafford has only 1 pick in the last 3 games and while the Eagle game was obviously good, the last drive in each of the two previous games was friggin' surgical. Wasn't able to say much positive about Lombardi's playcalling ever.

We seem to be running a bit better too, but haven't checked stats

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Sure,all this is obviously true. I think its more of an "if this the offense continues to trend up" situation. All Cooter has proven so far is that he's not retarded like Lombardi really. While I'm sure there are good OCs that could do the job, if Stafford shows a high level of comfort and success under Cooter, you have to be careful about changing OCs IMO. That messes with a QB, especially one without a high margin for error like Stafford.

What I do like is that Stafford has only 1 pick in the last 3 games and while the Eagle game was obviously good, the last drive in each of the two previous games was friggin' surgical. Wasn't able to say much positive about Lombardi's playcalling ever.

We seem to be running a bit better too, but haven't checked stats

I don't disagree with any of this, my only comments would be...

1) It's not like Stafford and Cooter have a long-standing relationship as a QB/OC combo, we are working on four games worth of data and the fact that there has been signs of improvement over the Lombardi lead offense suggests that Stafford can adjust to a new OC fairly quickly.

2) The Raiders are the 30th ranked pass defense, Packers are 23rd, and the Eagles are revolting against their coach (who have given up 10 passing TD in two games against below .500 teams); yes only giving up 1 INT in those three games is still a positive but I also would prefer to see Stafford perform well against some higher level competition.

3) I'm also not sure if our running has been any better (the only plays that jump out to me are the Stafford runs against Oakland and the long(ish) Abdullah run against the Eagles) but I think you would agree that, by and large, winning leads to a better rushing game than a good rushing game leads to winning. If I'm not mistaken you were the one who posted that football outsiders article. So again, the increased in rushing yards could very well be a result of us being on a winning streak.

But, as I said, I don't think Cooter is a bad OC, just would like to at least see how the rest of the season plays out before I'm "bummed" we lose him as an OC...especially when there are so many other qualified coordinators that could (potentially) be had in the offseason. I guess my biggest point is I just don't want to settle on Cooter simply because he is better than Lombardi...it's a very similar argument I had in opposition to Mayhew...he was heads and shoulders better than Millen but I didn't think he was successful enough in comparison to the current crop of GM to keep around. But Cooter does have some time to impress and seems to be in high regard around the league so we will see...I'm just not sold yet.

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I don't disagree with any of this, my only comments would be...

1) It's not like Stafford and Cooter have a long-standing relationship as a QB/OC combo, we are working on four games worth of data and the fact that there has been signs of improvement over the Lombardi lead offense suggests that Stafford can adjust to a new OC fairly quickly.

2) The Raiders are the 30th ranked pass defense, Packers are 23rd, and the Eagles are revolting against their coach (who have given up 10 passing TD in two games against below .500 teams); yes only giving up 1 INT in those three games is still a positive but I also would prefer to see Stafford perform well against some higher level competition.

3) I'm also not sure if our running has been any better (the only plays that jump out to me are the Stafford runs against Oakland and the long(ish) Abdullah run against the Eagles) but I think you would agree that, by and large, winning leads to a better rushing game than a good rushing game leads to winning. If I'm not mistaken you were the one who posted that football outsiders article. So again, the increased in rushing yards could very well be a result of us being on a winning streak.

But, as I said, I don't think Cooter is a bad OC, just would like to at least see how the rest of the season plays out before I'm "bummed" we lose him as an OC...especially when there are so many other qualified coordinators that could (potentially) be had in the offseason. I guess my biggest point is I just don't want to settle on Cooter simply because he is better than Lombardi...it's a very similar argument I had in opposition to Mayhew...he was heads and shoulders better than Millen but I didn't think he was successful enough in comparison to the current crop of GM to keep around. But Cooter does have some time to impress and seems to be in high regard around the league so we will see...I'm just not sold yet.

it will be 9 games at evaluation time, not 4. I am curious who all the great available coordinators are though. i honestly don't know

You're mostly correct regarding the FO outsider,but the thing is, you still have to effectively do it to put the game away. That isn't something we've always done.

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