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Shinma

11/15/15. Lions at Packers, week 10. Fox 1:05pm.

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Let's say the Lions finish with 6 or more wins, does that allow the Lions to take the easy route and keep White and Caldwell? Six or more wins would mean they went at least 5-3 in the second half of the season.

What are the Lions waiting for? There has been no news of interviews, etc. for a new GM? The NFL has a great list of candidates for GM that is compiled by a veteran NFL committee. They need to get the list and start interviewing candidates.

I would run as far away as possible from any offered help by the NFL search committees. The league office treats the Lions like the kid who rides the short bus to school, and in order to advance their social agenda we'll end up with their next affirmative action pick. Just go with a professional search firm and hire the best qualified candidate without any undue influence from the NFL or their friends.

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I am not seeing it man. I didn't hear anything Sheldon White until you posted something. They beat GB in GB for the first time since Bush Sr., and we are supposed to get bent out of shape because the interim GM is happy? I don't get it.

Sheldon White's quote was a headline story in both the Freep and News online sports pages.

Also, I didn't get "bent out of shape about it", I was laughing at the absurdity.

I said that Sheldon White's public brown-nosing was pathetic. Is that too complicated for you?

I further said that IF his brown nosing helped his cause to become the permanent GM, that would be ridiculous. Is that too complicated for you?

I also never said that I thought Mrs. Ford would buy it, just that she shouldn't buy it. Are we still too complicated?

Also, it seems pretty damn obvious that Sheldon White would want the job, as well as countless others with NFL resumes and fans sitting behind a key board. I would be worried if White said anything different.

If you think that his comments helps his cause, then you really think very little of Mrs. Ford's judgment. You may be right, but it's not a compliment to her at all. Sorry if that's too complicated for you to understand.

No, it doesn't. It represents a person happy the Lions won. Again, you're way over complicating this. Nothing to see here.

You stated above that he was (and should) brown-nose Mrs. Ford to keep his job permanently. That is a pathetic thing for him to do and if it worked would reflect very badly on Mrs. Ford. That is the entire substance of my post. Sorry it's soooooo complicated for you.

Edited by sabretooth

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Sounds like a good Lions hire....

Vin Masi ‏@VinMasi 52m52 minutes ago

As defensive coordinator since 2004, Rob Ryan's teams have a combined win pct of .366 (68-118). His teams finished over .500 once.

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There isn't anything to "believe." It's all lip service.

I said I believed that good PR works, not that I believed in the truth of all PR.

I don't think it's fair to think that Martha ford is as incompetent as it's being suggested.

I have never made a negative statement about anything that Mrs. Ford has ever done or said, nor have I suggested that she is a bungler or lacking in intelligence. I have only stated that she is old and inexperienced at being a sports executive, something that casts doubt on her ability to be one of the best owners in the NFL. That is a far cry in my opinion from being "incompetent", and I don't see how anything I've said is unfair to her in any way.

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I do not believe for a second that a typical fan's decision to attend a game or buy merchandise or support the team in general will be impacted in a significant way if and how the Lions disclose what they are doing with regards to the GM search.

I simply don't, not because PR isn't important, but because the PR aspect of the GM search is grossly overstated in my opinion. I think it has next to none -> no impact on PR.

I don't disagree that a lack of good PR specifically on the search firm won't hurt them with fans.

My point about the efficacy about PR was general in nature.

That having been said, I don't understand why they haven't engaged in any PR about the search firm....a simple statement would suffice, as long as it didn't harm some other objective.

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I didn't get "bent out of shape about it". I said that Sheldon White's public brown-nosing was pathetic. Is that too complicated for you?

I further said that IF his brown nosing helped his cause to become the permanent GM, that would be ridiculous. Is that too complicated for you?

I also never said that I thought Mrs. Ford would buy it, just that she shouldn't buy it. Are we still too complicated?

If you think that his comments helps his cause, then you really think very little of Mrs. Ford's judgment. You may be right, but it's not a compliment to her at all. Sorry if that's too complicated for you to understand.

You stated above that he was (and should) brown-nose Mrs. Ford to keep his job permanently. That is a pathetic thing for him to do and if it worked would reflect very badly on Mrs. Ford. That is the entire substance of my post. Sorry it's soooooo complicated for you.

Man are you awful to deal with sometimes. You flippantly used the word pathetic and now you respond to an objection with condescension.

All this for Sheldon White, who is a zombie right now. His comments don't mean jack, but don't pretend people don't lobby on their own behalf to get a promotion.

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Man are you awful to deal with sometimes. You flippantly used the word pathetic and now you respond to an objection with condescension.

I don't like being distorted/dismissed....you do it pretty regularly to me and it's frustrating as hell. I am generally very careful with my choice of words, I'm not flippant....the use of "pathetic" referred to Sheldon's brown-nosing....that is pathetic, right?

I'll admit that repeating the "complicated" thing was rude on my part, but your use of that term to me just seems dismissive of the substance, which is something I'm pretty damn careful about, even when I'm speculating (which we all have to do when we're talking FO stuff).

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I don't like being distorted/dismissed....you do it pretty regularly to me and it's frustrating as hell. I am generally very careful with my choice of words, I'm not flippant....the use of "pathetic" referred to Sheldon's brown-nosing....that is pathetic, right?

I don't find it pathetic, I find it mostly leans toward innate, honestly. That's where all this started from. From a guy who doesn't like the lions you made a point to source an article of a throw away quote from Sheldon White after the Lions just won their first game in Green Bay since the Bad Boys. Then you called what he said pathetic, which just seemed off to me.

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Lions-Packers PFF Grades: Ebron struggles in big win over the Packers - Pride Of Detroit

Ebron is a straight bum. 3 drops in one game, one of which hit him right in the freaking facemask and bounced off. He now is third in the league in drop-rate % behind only Mike Evans and the ever terrifying Jared Cook.

Coming out of college, one of his biggest weaknesses was dropping passes and I guess the Lions thought they could fix him so they drafted him. We will most likely see a new coaching staff so maybe he can improve under the new coaching staff.

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That having been said, I don't understand why they haven't engaged in any PR about the search firm....a simple statement would suffice, as long as it didn't harm some other objective.

They haven't engaged in any PR regarding the search because they do not perceive any meaningful benefit from doing so.

I honestly don't know how to make myself any more clear on the topic.

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Coming out of college, one of his biggest weaknesses was dropping passes and I guess the Lions thought they could fix him so they drafted him. We will most likely see a new coaching staff so maybe he can improve under the new coaching staff.

I think the conventional wisdom at the time... well, at least the conventional wisdom that supported the Ebron pick... was that his drop percentage while high for a TE wasn't really out of place for a WR. I guess the reasoning is that TE's are expected to have a higher completion percentage because most of the throws are short, easy passes rather than down the field bombs where a receiver is stretching out or in heavy traffic or whatever.

Following the logic, Ebron, though lining up as a TE, was expected to be used more like a WR, therefore we should judge him against other WRs rather than against TEs when looking at various stats or metrics.

Whether there is or isn't any truth to this logic, Ebron has still dropped WAY too many easy passes. Even Pettigrew looks sure handed compared to him. And while Pettigrew isn't a pass catching specialist, he is more than adequate at blocking so he has redeeming qualities.

Ebron absolutely sucks at block. I mean he's REALLY bad... bad, bad, bad. So he better be really good as a receiver... which at times he's shown to be... but those are few and far between. Unless he improves alot quickly this will be yet another Mayhew bust.

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Ford Sr sure has a lot of history. Martha has a very short history, and it's pretty good.

Firing people is only good if you hire better people. She has done nothing good yet

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I said I believed that good PR works, not that I believed in the truth of all PR.

I have never made a negative statement about anything that Mrs. Ford has ever done or said, nor have I suggested that she is a bungler or lacking in intelligence. I have only stated that she is old and inexperienced at being a sports executive, something that casts doubt on her ability to be one of the best owners in the NFL. That is a far cry in my opinion from being "incompetent", and I don't see how anything I've said is unfair to her in any way.

You posted the link to the freep article and your only comment related to Martha presented the question of whether or not Martha would be swayed by White's apparent brown nosing.

It came off to me that you were talking about Martha, not White. If that wasn't your intention, so be it. But given your history of skepticism regarding whether an owner can be competent, I don't think the way people interpreted your comment is out of line.

I guess I would say that I think you could have presented your position more clearly as a criticism of white's brown nosing and left out Martha's hypothetical reaction of believing it. Including the possibility that she would be swayed by a single line (out of context) implies that you think it's possible.

As for my comment about "belief," that wasn't in reference to PR. It was in reference to (paraphrasing) "if Martha believes what Sheldon is saying the lions are doomed."

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Firing people is only good if you hire better people. She has done nothing good yet

That's not entirely true. Firing bad people who you know are bad is a good thing. Yes if you end up hiring other bad people to replace the ones fired than that sorta negates the good, but recognizing that the people in play are not getting the job done and removing them is a good thing.

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That's not entirely true. Firing bad people who you know are bad is a good thing. Yes if you end up hiring other bad people to replace the ones fired than that sorta negates the good, but recognizing that the people in play are not getting the job done and removing them is a good thing.

True story.

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That's not entirely true. Firing bad people who you know are bad is a good thing. Yes if you end up hiring other bad people to replace the ones fired than that sorta negates the good, but recognizing that the people in play are not getting the job done and removing them is a good thing.

Haha. Firing bad people to try and get better is not too tough. The tough part is decided whether or not to fire fairly good people because you don't think they are quite good enough to get over the top. The closer to 'good enough' the people you let go are, the bigger the odds the people you replace them with are worse!

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I agree and why do the Lions feel they must keep everything a secret? They need to give the fans what they want and tell the fans what is going on with the GM situation.

The Lions organization doesn't owe the fans anything. If they choose to keep their intentions secret, they are well within their rights to keep it secret. They don't "need" to give the fans anything.

Also, not sure why some are skeptical about Martha retaining White and Caldwell. She just fired 2 men who have been involved with the Lions organization for well over a decade so what makes some of you think that she'll be loyal to these two?

I guess anything is possible but I'd bet the house that these two are lame ducks. Maybe White gets "reassigned" to a lesser role but I can't see any scenario where he is given full G.M. duties. Barring a miracle run in the second half of the season, I think Caldwell is a goner unless they hire Polian since he has loyalty to Caldwell.

Edited by NYLion

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Firing people is only good if you hire better people. She has done nothing good yet

She named/hired Sheldon White, a football genius, as interim GM. All he did was sign some amazing players that led the Lions to a victory in Green Bay. Pure genius moves.

She also didn't fire the coaching genius, Caldwell. We all know that he has what it takes to lead the Lions into the playoffs this season and then to the Super Bowl.

Martha Ford knows who to hire and she knows who she should not fire.

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Here's an interesting story sorta breaking down the kick that failed: Detroit Lions second look: What went wrong on Mason Crosby's final field goal attempt? | MLive.com

The writer point to the most likely cause being a slipping plant foot that may have caused the kicking foot to hit the turf just before kicking the ball.

This seems likely to me because it seemed that there were a lot of players slipping down in that game. It seemed like it lead to a number of injuries too. Add in that the announcers were talking about a mixture of artificial and real grass at one point and how it makes the field unpredictable plus the shot of the Lions changing cleat makes me think the field was in less then idea conditions on Sunday.

I think it's entirely possible the plant foot shifted just enough to make the kick so screwy.

And on a side note, does this shed some light on Prater's accuracy issues as well? Remember too that Crosby's first FG attempt, a more manageable 44 yarder, banged off the upright very nearly causing it to miss.

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....Also, not sure why some......has loyalty to Caldwell.

For me, the past still sits in my mind. I know it is not old man Ford, but until the actual new GM is hired, I will be skeptical.

I agree that the only way White and Caldwell would be retained is if the Lions made the playoffs and won a playoff game this season. We all know that the chances of that happening is close to zero.

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Haha. Firing bad people to try and get better is not too tough. The tough part is decided whether or not to fire fairly good people because you don't think they are quite good enough to get over the top. The closer to 'good enough' the people you let go are, the bigger the odds the people you replace them with are worse!

Yes

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For me, the past still sits in my mind. I know it is not old man Ford, but until the actual new GM is hired, I will be skeptical.

I agree that the only way White and Caldwell would be retained is if the Lions made the playoffs and won a playoff game this season. We all know that the chances of that happening is close to zero.

I get the skepticism. I mean, it's the Lions and it's the Fords but old man Ford would have never impulsively fired his cronies so that leads me to believe that this time is different and that Martha is serious about fully cleansing this organization of the doo doo.

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Is that how it is for all Thursday night games in November and December? The local markets get the game on CBS or is it just this game? If it is just this game, how did the NFL decide on this game? They thought the Lions and Green Bay would be fighting for first place in their division?

That's the way it is for the games in November & December. This is due to prime-time Fall TV shows on the networks.

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I get the skepticism. I mean, it's the Lions and it's the Fords but old man Ford would have never impulsively fired his cronies so that leads me to believe that this time is different and that Martha is serious about fully cleansing this organization of the doo doo.

Didn't he just do that to Millen?

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