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Shinma

10/25/15. Vikings at Lions. Week 7, FOX, 1:05pm.

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No-no, no, no, no. Wins matter, not draft picks.

Fwiw, I never said they matter. Just that I root for them, as a fan. Never said it was logical either.

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Why do people like teryl austin so much? Why do people assume he would be a good nfl head coach?....New gm, new scouts, new coach, etc.

I want to see a whole reboot too. I really think the only way we see that is if the Lions finish with 4 or less wins and/or Mrs. Ford passes away.

The way the Lions offensive line looks, there is a really good chance the Lions will win 4 or less games. After yesterday's garbage game, the only game I would give them a chance of winning is against the terrible 49ers at home.

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Why do people like teryl austin so much? Why do people assume he would be a good nfl head coach?

Because essentially the same defense in 2013 was average, at best. But in 2014 the defense became dominating. In 2015 the defense lost an all-world player off the line, lost another start off the line, lost a backup-fill in starter off the line, and (so far) lost their best linebacker.

So, with the limited data we have, we could conclude that: Austin made an average 2013 defense into an elite defense in 2014 with essentially the same personnel. The 2015 defense has regressed because key players left via FA and other key players have been hurt.

Of course, given the very limited data we have, we could also conclude that: Sue and Fairley played super hard to get their next contacts and that's why the 2014 defense was so elite, not because of Austin. And the 2015 defense shows that without those players Austin can't only produce an average defense.

Either one if probably just as likely.

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Why do people like teryl austin so much? Why do people assume he would be a good nfl head coach?

The defense was great last year when suh and fairley were playing together. The defense was still pretty good after fairley went out, but much of that was suh, and levy stepping up.

Now without suh levy and fairley the defense is ****. So why is austin suddenly everyone's flavor of the month to be the next head coach?

I dont want anyone associated with this team to stay in in any management capacity. If youre going to burn it down and start over then burn the whole thing down. New gm, new scouts, new coach, etc.

Well if Mayhew goes, the new guy will hire his HC, so Austin will be gone. As for liking him, I stand about where you do. I think he's made some good adjustments at times this year, but he's been outmanned and its been hard for me to judge him really. Last year was basically the opposite(all indicators coming out of 2013 were that we would have taken that next step defensively with Gunther and co or whoever else running the show). He seems like a good DC, but I'm not sure he's anything truly special. I do like his scheme overall though and its hard for anyone to lose Suh,Fairley and Levy and not take a hit

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He seems like a good DC, but I'm not sure he's anything truly special.

Agree. He did great things with great talent; this season his best talent has been on the sidelines, and his offense is stringing together quarters where they have negative yardage, so it is hard to tell. But he is the best coach on the staff, by a long shot.

We all know that the Ford family is not likely to make a coaching/front office move this season (or, as painful as it is to say, in the offseason). But if they were to give us an early Christmas present and fire Caldwell in London, I would want for Austin to get the interim job. I would also want for him to have a chance to interview with a new GM.

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Agree. He did great things with great talent; this season his best talent has been on the sidelines, and his offense is stringing together quarters where they have negative yardage, so it is hard to tell. But he is the best coach on the staff, by a long shot.

We all know that the Ford family is not likely to make a coaching/front office move this season (or, as painful as it is to say, in the offseason). But if they were to give us an early Christmas present and fire Caldwell in London, I would want for Austin to get the interim job. I would also want for him to have a chance to interview with a new GM.

Sure, no issue here

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Fwiw, I never said they matter. Just that I root for them, as a fan. Never said it was logical either.

Logic always has and will fly out the window with the Lions. Look, I hate losing too, I don't want to sit the rest of my life and be miserable about this team. I'd like to enjoy a string of winners from the Lions. I just root for what I view as strategically placed losses once and a great while. Strategic losses that could place them in a better spot for the future.

Edited by Mr.TaterSalad

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I mean, if you have a QB who's QBR goes down 4 years in a row, you should probably get rid of him and try something new, even if his OL and running game suck, right? But enough about Andrew Luck this is a Lions thread!

Sorry couldn't help myself

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Logic always has and will fly out the window with the Lions. Look, I hate losing too, I don't want to sit the rest of my life and be miserable about this team. I'd like to enjoy a string of winners from the Lions. I just root for what I view as strategically placed losses once and a great while. Strategic losses that could place them in a better spot for the future.

I've seen enough high draft choices for me to think that's the magic turnaround too

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Agree. He did great things with great talent; this season his best talent has been on the sidelines, and his offense is stringing together quarters where they have negative yardage, so it is hard to tell. But he is the best coach on the staff, by a long shot.

We all know that the Ford family is not likely to make a coaching/front office move this season (or, as painful as it is to say, in the offseason). But if they were to give us an early Christmas present and fire Caldwell in London, I would want for Austin to get the interim job. I would also want for him to have a chance to interview with a new GM.

I agree with most of this, but the thing about firing caldwell and replacing him with austin that scares me is that they will just hire austin regardless of who else is available because the team got better in the second half of the season (thanks to their easier schedule). Its the lions way (see fontes, wayne).

I think theyve already squandered their chance when the refs took it away from them last year, but i still hold out hope they can squeeze one more dominating year from calvin/tate.

One aside on the austin talk. We may not know if he is a great coordinator or not, but one thing we DO know is that joe lombardi is not good as a coordinator. And yet he still has a job. That says more about caldwell to me than anything.

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Ya know... one thought re: Austin as intern head coach:

If the Lions do decide to "blow it all up" from the front office all the way down, I think it would be great to fire Caldwell and put in Austin as intern... at least from Austin's perspective.

Austin would gain valuable experience as a HC, something that would set him apart from other new coordinator candidates. Even if it was only for a few months, that's still better than a coordinator with ZERO HC experience.

Granted, the Lions are bad, but that won't really reflect on Austin. Worse case, the Lions lose out and everyone says: "Well what did you expect? They were a bad team... no one is going to come in and turn them into an instant winner in the middle of a season, that's not Austin's fault." Best case, the Lions rebound a bit (not too much, we still want to blow out things here in Detroit!) and Austin gets credit for stopping the horrible and starting to get things on track.

So, IF the Lions decide to blow it all up after next weeks game, making Austin the intern HC would be very good for him.

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BTW, didn't read whole thread, but do we agree Calvin broke the plane?

Yes, but this just brings up all the crap about what is or isn't a catch. At the time he broke the plain he was still a receiver who was going to the ground.

One might argue that because he was going to the ground he doesn't not establish possession until he's on the ground, with the ball. And this didn't happen until he was outside of the endzone, therefore it is a catch, but not a TD.

I totally disagree with that thinking and feel dirty for making that argument, with within the logic of the NFL is sorta makes sense.

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I've seen enough high draft choices for me to think that's the magic turnaround too

It's about taking that high pick and flipping it for more picks. I'm looking to move back from the top 3-5 and pick up a mid-1st, 2nd and 3rd.

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Assuming the pick can be flipped

Much easier to do given the rookie cap now.

...and then quality selections made.

Not sure why you even bring this up. What are you worried about? Mayhew has been money in the second round after all.

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It's about taking that high pick and flipping it for more picks. I'm looking to move back from the top 3-5 and pick up a mid-1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Yah, I mean if we get a high pick I'm down for a number of strategies. Same idea holds true either way though. We've had plenty of draft picks. This team shouldn't need a high pick to turn around. Just smart drafting and spending.

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Much easier to do given the rookie cap now.

Not sure why you even bring this up. What are you worried about? Mayhew has been money in the second round after all.

If its easier to do, doesn't that pretty much mean its less smart to do? Just sayin', it takes two to tango....

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Oh man, it's not even Halloween and we're already talking about draft picks? This team drafted Stafford, Calvin, Suh in the top 2 picks the past few years and where has it gotten us? The Patriots, Steelers, Packers, etc have low 1st round picks and where are they? Bottom line, it's the people evaluating players, making the picks, and hiring the coaching staffs that matter...and that means Mayhew and Lewand need to go, they are the constant. Of course, the real constant is ownership. It'd be nice to see Bill Ford Jr get a chance to run the show, but Momma Ford and her little hens are running things now. The hens will surely sell the team once Momma Ford is called home to roost...but that could be a few years away.

Edited by azzurri

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Pretty hilarious image montage of the offensive line yesterday (from Reddit):

V4eovKF.jpg

I've lost count of the number of times this season that members of the OL came out of their stances and touched nobody, while being completely unaware of defenders who were taking direct paths to crush Stafford. Hell, I lost track of the number of times it happened yesterday. Utterly inexcusable.

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If its easier to do, doesn't that pretty much mean its less smart to do? Just sayin', it takes two to tango....

Not necessarily. There are times it makes sense to trade down and times it makes sense to pick where you are. It all depends on the offer from the other team and what's on the board and what a teams needs are.

However, prior to the rookie cap the super high inflated prices that early first round picks were getting made it nearly impossible to trade to those picks. The albatross of such a high salary on a player who'd never played a down in the NFL made other teams nervous about parting with their picks.

I remember a (possibly apocryphal) story where a GM with a very high pick who called up another GM and asked if he wanted to work out a deal for the high pick. The other GM said: "What are you throwing in with it?"

Quite possibly that story is made up and even if it was true it was probably somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But the point is that the high picks are supposed to be very valuable and so other teams would give up more picks to secure it. But with the super high contacts it almost came to the point where teams were saying: "You'll have to pay me extra to take the contact."

Right now, if you miss on that high first round pick, it really hurts the team because that's were you need to get elite talent and you failed. Previously it really hurt the team PLUS screwed up the salary cap for years to come.

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I've lost count of the number of times this season that members of the OL came out of their stances and touched nobody, while being completely unaware of defenders who were taking direct paths to crush Stafford. Hell, I lost track of the number of times it happened yesterday. Utterly inexcusable.

Same...watching 4-5 guys blocking 2 and then watching a jail break on the other side...all day Sunday. Waaay too much this year..it is embarrassing how bad it has been.

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