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Shinma

10/18/15. Bears at Lions. Week 6. Fox, 1:00 pm.

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He's out for the year with cracked rib and collapsed lung.

Well, crap. That sucks... Now we really need Bell back for some level of power back.

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How so?

It's the inconsistency of the rule that is confusing everybody.

I get the Calvin Johnson rule where you need to control the ball through the whole process but why would they call back the Freeman TD for instance where he clearly made a football move and broke the plane of the goal line before losing it but then reward Tate for losing the ball after making a football move and breaking the plane.

Even if they considered that he caught the ball after breaking the plane, he would need to control the ball all the way through the process which he clearly didn't.

This was actually a worse call than BatGate against Seattle mainly because they reversed the correct ruling.

Freeman was going to the ground. Tate wasn't.

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Freeman was going to the ground. Tate wasn't.

What difference does that make? Both made a football move and broke the plane of the goal line. Neither controlled the ball all the way through the process.

But actually, looking at the replay upon further reivew, it looked like Tate gained possession after crossing the end zone so if that's the case, he needed to control the ball all the way through the process which he clearly didn't (the Calvin Johnson rule).

It's not like he ran 5 yards towards the end zone then reached out, broke the plane and lost possession afterwards.

I must be missing something here because I don't see any way they consider that a TD by the book. Hell, even Tate was shocked when they reversed it.

What I don't get is why a running back can run the ball in the end zone after a hand off and drop the ball whenever but a receiver who runs the ball in the end zone after making a clear football move can't. That's why the Freeman call was so murky.

Edited by NYLion

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Freeman was going to the ground. Tate wasn't.

Is there a distinction in the rule between going to the ground and being stripped by a defender? If both players "catch" the ball, break the plane and then lose the ball in short succession why does it matter how they lose the ball? I'm not necessarily challenging your theory, I simply don't know the answer.

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...the absurdity of the process rule...

Does anyone even remember the problem the NFL thought it was fixing by implementing the Process Rule? I don't. But now literally nobody knows what a catch is.

This is just another part of the broader problem of over-legislating the game. Nineteen penalties accepted yesterday, and who knows how many flags thrown. Not to mention Deflategate and the debacles with enforcement of penalties for player conduct. They're going to legislate themselves right out of existence if they're not careful.

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Is there a distinction in the rule between going to the ground and being stripped by a defender? If both players "catch" the ball, break the plane and then lose the ball in short succession why does it matter how they lose the ball? I'm not necessarily challenging your theory, I simply don't know the answer.

I think there is a difference... Or at least that is what Dean Blandino indicated in his response.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000559663/article/dean-blandino-on-why-golden-tate-play-ruled-a-td

In any event, no sports league can last long if it requires fans to consult a decision tree before cheering or booing.

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Ok, I see the explanation about going to the ground but how the heck do you determine that in that situation. Tate was starting to lose his balance when the ball was being knocked out so he perhaps was headed to the ground.

Such a STUPID rule. Ridiculous for a pro league to be this vague on their rulings.

So again, why the heck was the Freeman TD reversed? He was clearly a runner by the time he broke the plane and made it to the ground.

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Ok, I see the explanation about going to the ground but how the heck do you determine that in that situation. Tate was starting to lose his balance when the ball was being knocked out so he perhaps was headed to the ground.

Such a STUPID rule. Ridiculous for a pro league to be this vague on their rulings.

So again, why the heck was the Freeman TD reversed? He was clearly a runner by the time he broke the plane and made it to the ground.

Yup... it almost seems like they put the rule in place without thinking it fully through... then when it started blowing up in the faces they just doubled down and tried to create a millions different: "If then, then yes, but if that, then no..." situations.

Okay, when is it a catch? Well, you need to catch it and maintain control if you're falling down.

Okay, what if I catch it, take five steps, then fall and lose control. That's okay, cause the 5 steps are a football move.

Three steps? Well, maybe, it depends.

What if I catch it, stand there for 5 seconds, and then spike the ball? That's a catch cause no defender was involved.

What if a defender was involved, but he sorta 'bounced' off me cause I'm a lot bigger? Shedding a defender is a football move.

What it really comes down to is this: To complete a catch, you need to get the ball and perform a football action. Once this is done you are considered a runner... no different than if you were handed off the ball by the QB. Then rules that apply to a runner (fumbling, breaking the plain, etc.) come into play.

That's actually logical. That makes sense... except for that one little bit: Football action. What the heck is a football action and what isn't a football action? That's when everything goes out the window because somethings look a lot like football moves but aren't consider as such.

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Call seems pretty simple to me, ignore the end zone, ignore the fact that it was intercepted. If Golden Tate made that same play at the 50 yard line, and then the ball fell to the ground, would it have been ruled incomplete or a fumble.

If you say 'fumble' then it's a touchdown' If you say 'incomplete' then it's an interception.

imo the refs got it right, but it was very close, so I could see it actually being overturned as controversial

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Call seems pretty simple to me, ignore the end zone, ignore the fact that it was intercepted. If Golden Tate made that same play at the 50 yard line, and then the ball fell to the ground, would it have been ruled incomplete or a fumble.

If you say 'fumble' then it's a touchdown' If you say 'incomplete' then it's an interception.

imo the refs got it right, but it was very close, so I could see it actually being overturned as controversial

That's one good way to look at it, but there still isn't an easy answer. That's so close it could be either way really.

I agree that I think the got the call right. But I'm also aware enough that I'm sure if I was a Bears fan I'd be quite certain they got the call wrong.

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I know two things, Caldwell is a better coach than Fox and Pagano.

Head scratching how poor the head coaching talent is in the NFL. Basic clock management eludes most coaches.

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Now if the Lions can just win 9 out of the last 10 games, we should be playoff bound!! :silly:

If this would actually happen or if the Lions would win 8 out of 10 AND miss the playoffs by 1 game, that garbage clown ref in Seattle should never sniff an NFL field again for not knowing the rules of his job.

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I know two things, Caldwell is a better coach than Fox and Pagano.

Head scratching how poor the head coaching talent is in the NFL. Basic clock management eludes most coaches.

Pagano at least shows some creativity when designing illegal plays.

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I know two things, Caldwell is a better coach than Fox and Pagano.

Head scratching how poor the head coaching talent is in the NFL. Basic clock management eludes most coaches.

Caldwell is not a better coach than john fox. Fox actually has the totally talentless bears playing decent football. He's just too conservative.

Caldwell has the lions - who im told are extremely talented - playing awful football.

There's a reason caldwell is a punchline.

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This is such ridiculous nonsense.

So Stupid. Nothing to do with Brady being the best QB off all time or anything.

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The Bears are terrible and it took an over time miracle to win it. I cannot get excited about the win, but a loss would have sucked pretty hard.

Pretty much sums it up. An embarrassingly bad performance in what is by far the most winnable game on the schedule – maybe the only winnable game

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What difference does that make? Both made a football move and broke the plane of the goal line. Neither controlled the ball all the way through the process.

But actually, looking at the replay upon further reivew, it looked like Tate gained possession after crossing the end zone so if that's the case, he needed to control the ball all the way through the process which he clearly didn't (the Calvin Johnson rule).

It's not like he ran 5 yards towards the end zone then reached out, broke the plane and lost possession afterwards.

I must be missing something here because I don't see any way they consider that a TD by the book. Hell, even Tate was shocked when they reversed it.

What I don't get is why a running back can run the ball in the end zone after a hand off and drop the ball whenever but a receiver who runs the ball in the end zone after making a clear football move can't. That's why the Freeman call was so murky.

If you aren't going to the ground, its a TD once you become a runner. Tate landed his 3rd foot and that ended the play immediately

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Is there a distinction in the rule between going to the ground and being stripped by a defender? If both players "catch" the ball, break the plane and then lose the ball in short succession why does it matter how they lose the ball? I'm not necessarily challenging your theory, I simply don't know the answer.

I don't know the whys, just that if you are going to the ground, you have to control it through the entire process. It was the main dispute with the Dez Bryant catch, because some felt he wasn't going to the ground, but then dove to extend the ball into the endzone, where as the refs thought he was going to the ground the entire time, and thus was required to control the ball to the ground.

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Ok, I see the explanation about going to the ground but how the heck do you determine that in that situation. Tate was starting to lose his balance when the ball was being knocked out so he perhaps was headed to the ground.

Such a STUPID rule. Ridiculous for a pro league to be this vague on their rulings.

So again, why the heck was the Freeman TD reversed? He was clearly a runner by the time he broke the plane and made it to the ground.

Freeman was never on his feet with the ball and not going to the ground

Devonta Freeman’s Potential Touchdown Catch Overturned, So He Just Scored Another One | The Big Lead

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Caldwell is not a better coach than john fox. Fox actually has the totally talentless bears playing decent football. He's just too conservative.

Caldwell has the lions - who im told are extremely talented - playing awful football.

There's a reason caldwell is a punchline.

Ridiculous IMO. Gase has Cutler playing a bit better than normal and that's about it. They were 2 punt miscues from being blown out by the 0-5 Lions. They're 26th in ppg and dead last in ppg allowed. They got a couple flukey comebacks and might not win again. This post has nothing to do with Caldwell, just pointing out that Fox hasn't made the talentless Bears look anything but talentless.

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Ridiculous IMO. Gase has Cutler playing a bit better than normal and that's about it. They were 2 punt miscues from being blown out by the 0-5 Lions. They're 26th in ppg and dead last in ppg allowed. They got a couple flukey comebacks and might not win again. This post has nothing to do with Caldwell, just pointing out that Fox hasn't made the talentless Bears look anything but talentless.

Oh please. They were in the packers game for the whole way. They got blown out by arizona after cutler got hurt (but were in the game before cutler got hurt). They were blown out by seattle without cutler. Cutler comes back and they beat oakland and kc and then their offense puts up 34 on the lions.

Theyre playing much better than last year. Its obvious just watching them. And cutler has been good this season so far, part of which is the simple offense theyre running. And not only are the bears probably the least talented team in the league, they are significantly injured too, even moreso than the lions.

Look, i know you dont watch the bears every week but i usually do. Theyre better than last year.

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This game was pure Stafford...he pulls a couple of long throws and that funky sidearm TD out of his arse and almost costs us the game by trying some insane flippy crap to a covered receiver. When he's "on" and he sees opportunities that really are opportunities, ge's a great talent. When he's frustrated and desperate and only thinks he sees things...things that aren't really there. like an open WR who really has a safety cheating his way, he's Johnny Manziel level useless.

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This game was pure Stafford...he pulls a couple of long throws and that funky sidearm TD out of his arse and almost costs us the game by trying some insane flippy crap to a covered receiver. When he's "on" and he sees opportunities that really are opportunities, ge's a great talent. When he's frustrated and desperate and only thinks he sees things...things that aren't really there. like an open WR who really has a safety cheating his way, he's Johnny Manziel level useless.

This seems a touch too hard on Stafford to me. I was watching the Green Bay game and saw Aaron Rodgers make the same kind of flip that Stafford did. The problem for Stafford was that the possible reward, of a six yard gain, wasn't worth the risk on 3rd and 12, in a game where you are up by one point. I do think you're right that he sometimes doesn't play within himself. That's when he causes problems.

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Oh please. They were in the packers game for the whole way. They got blown out by arizona after cutler got hurt (but were in the game before cutler got hurt). They were blown out by seattle without cutler. Cutler comes back and they beat oakland and kc and then their offense puts up 34 on the lions.

Theyre playing much better than last year. Its obvious just watching them. And cutler has been good this season so far, part of which is the simple offense theyre running. And not only are the bears probably the least talented team in the league, they are significantly injured too, even moreso than the lions.

Look, i know you dont watch the bears every week but i usually do. Theyre better than last year.

I know objective numbers are a ridiculous thing to base an argument on and all, but like I said, they have the worst defense in the league and the 7th worst offense. We were in the SD,Denver and Seattle games but we don't get any brownie points for it, nor does Caldwell I'm guessing.

They were down 31-16 to the Packers and tacked on a garbage TD at the end, then lost their next two games by a combined 50 points while being shut out in one of them. They won the next two games over bad teams by a combined 3 points. Then they lost to an 0-5 team. Tell me what I'm missing by not watching them oh so religiously.

Edited by Nastradamus

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