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hail2mich

GDT: #13 Northwestern at #18 Michigan 10/10/2015

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Teams have guys in the booths and they have the game feed on as well. On the Morris hit someone saw what was going on, but there was no protocol to report what they were seeing. Hoke didn't wear a head seat anyway.

Teams just need to have a plan in place so when a coach up stairs, on the sidelines, or a player even, sees something they report it and the player is removed from the game and checked out. It would also help to not lie about it in the press conference.

Michigan didn't have a person in the booth with that responsibility, that's why I asked. Hoke didn't lie, Brandon withheld the information.

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Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Hoke was terrible at everything. He was definitely a good recruiter and good working with the D-line. I just think his ceiling is great position coach, probably very good defensive coordinator, bad head coach.

No shame in that, but even if Harbaugh wasn't here to save the team, he had to go.

As for the State game...MSU's o-line is injury riddled and Michigan's d-line is ridiculous. Cook is a very good QB, but he'll have to be to survive the game.

I'm expecting a fairly low scoring one as MSU's weakness seems to be vs the pass, which I doubt we'll be able to exploit that well. Michigan 20 - MSU 13

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Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Hoke was terrible at everything. He was definitely a good recruiter and good working with the D-line. I just think his ceiling is great position coach, probably very good defensive coordinator, bad head coach.

No shame in that, but even if Harbaugh wasn't here to save the team, he had to go.

As for the State game...MSU's o-line is injury riddled and Michigan's d-line is ridiculous. Cook is a very good QB, but he'll have to be to survive the game.

I'm expecting a fairly low scoring one as MSU's weakness seems to be vs the pass, which I doubt we'll be able to exploit that well. Michigan 20 - MSU 13

Our D-line vs. their O-line is going to be the key. We have to (and probably should) win that to keep pressure on Cook. I know our corners are great, but I think Cook is good enough and they have some WRs that will make some tough catches that he will hit some throws downfield if he has time.

EDIT: I'll also say my opinion of Hoke's recruiting classes has gone way up since Harbaugh started coaching them.

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True ^^ There have been a few people now, football people, who have suggested that we haven't even seen anything yet in the Michigan offensive playbook. This could be the week we all finally learn to sit back and trust.

JH has "thrown in wrinkles", but I think this week we see almost the entire offense on display. I believe we will enjoy it like we have the first 6 weeks.

Agreed. Probably will finally see Peppers play a few offensive snaps.

UM is better in every area and should win this game. If Rudock plays the way he has been the past few weeks, they should be able to move the ball effectively. The defense speaks for itself. And msu's special teams is a dumpster fire compared to UM's. UM is at home. I don't see how msu could upset UM. I know Dantonio will make up a reason to have a "chip" on their shoulder, but UM is well coached and will be ready for everything. My only concern is too much emotion early on which could lead to some mistakes.

IMO UM is the better team, they just need to show it.

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Our D-line vs. their O-line is going to be the key. We have to (and probably should) win that to keep pressure on Cook. I know our corners are great, but I think Cook is good enough and they have some WRs that will make some tough catches that he will hit some throws downfield if he has time.

EDIT: I'll also say my opinion of Hoke's recruiting classes has gone way up since Harbaugh started coaching them.

And if MSU's D line over-pursues, you know those screens which have disappeared for the last couple of weeks will be back - and they were devastating the few times they ran it in the early games.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Hoke was terrible at everything. He was definitely a good recruiter ...

Of course is could always turn out that Hoke was a better recruiter than Harbaugh is going to be, so that this year and next turn out to be Harbaugh's best years....:paranoid::ponder:

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Of course is could always turn out that Hoke was a better recruiter than Harbaugh is going to be, so that this year and next turn out to be Harbaugh's best years....:paranoid::ponder:

Someone had to ruin the party. Too much optimism going around.

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Michigan didn't have a person in the booth with that responsibility, that's why I asked. Hoke didn't lie, Brandon withheld the information.

At the very least Hoke lied about not having talked to Brandon about the incident prior to the Monday presser. He had also spoken to medical personnel and claimed he had not.

He lied at the behest of his boss, but he lied.

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Someone had to ruin the party. Too much optimism going around.

I was talking football with a Senior today and he was trying desperately not to be too optimistic, but failing miserably. :laugh:

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This MSU game is the one I've been looking forward to. I wasn't convinced NW was all that great, at least going by what I had seen of them in recent years. State has absolutely wrecked us .. in all phases. Complete dominance. I have been surprised at how quickly Harbaugh has seemed to be able to turn things around. I was shocked at the final score of the NW game, but not at the win. The big question for me is can they hold their own against a team that has made them look silly? They looked decent against Utah, but the INTs killed them. The other teams are lackluster at best. I think the most impressive thing to me has been how individuals seem to be improving week to week. & problem areas one week are erased the next. I am all in on the Harbaugh love-fest, but I am not ready to say they are a Top 10 team until they beat State.

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This MSU game is the one I've been looking forward to. I wasn't convinced NW was all that great, at least going by what I had seen of them in recent years. State has absolutely wrecked us .. in all phases. Complete dominance. I have been surprised at how quickly Harbaugh has seemed to be able to turn things around. I was shocked at the final score of the NW game, but not at the win. The big question for me is can they hold their own against a team that has made them look silly? They looked decent against Utah, but the INTs killed them. The other teams are lackluster at best. I think the most impressive thing to me has been how individuals seem to be improving week to week. & problem areas one week are erased the next. I am all in on the Harbaugh love-fest, but I am not ready to say they are a Top 10 team until they beat State.

Utah is #1 in the power rankings and we lost to them by a TD at their place, in spite the three INT and ineffective ground game. NW owned the best defense in the country before the Michigan offense put up 31 points and over 200 yards rushing on them. BYU was ranked before Harbaugh's boys completely dominated them. There are more than a few analysts saying that Michigan would win convincingly over Utah right now if they were to play again.

Three consecutive shutouts. I don't care if you are playing FCS teams in two of those game--which Michigan wasn't, two Top 25 teams instead--that is impressive. If it is fair that you or either poll isn't prepared to call Michigan a top-10 team, then it is also fair to say that Michigan State is a far cry from what a top-10 team should look like.

State is beat up. There are rumors coming out of EL that their Rimmington Award favorite, Jack Allen, has broken his ankle. At the very least, it is a severe high ankle sprain and good luck against our Henry, Hurst, Glasgow, and Wormley playing on one leg. Their RT is now playing LT, open season on Connor Cook--who is not playing well to date. Both TE are walking wounded and they are two men down in the secondary. This MSU team is a far cry from what we've seen the past few years. There is a reason why the point spread has almost doubled over the past few days in Vegas. It could push to 9 by kickoff.

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This MSU game is the one I've been looking forward to. I wasn't convinced NW was all that great, at least going by what I had seen of them in recent years. State has absolutely wrecked us .. in all phases. Complete dominance. I have been surprised at how quickly Harbaugh has seemed to be able to turn things around. I was shocked at the final score of the NW game, but not at the win. The big question for me is can they hold their own against a team that has made them look silly? They looked decent against Utah, but the INTs killed them. The other teams are lackluster at best. I think the most impressive thing to me has been how individuals seem to be improving week to week. & problem areas one week are erased the next. I am all in on the Harbaugh love-fest, but I am not ready to say they are a Top 10 team until they beat State.

I'm at this point too, I've lived with lower expectations long enough that I'm not ready to open up the calluses until we actually beat one of these guys. Harbaugh has turned us into a good football team, there's no question about that. That was step 1 and it happened way faster than I thought it would. But step 2 is having a good season, and it's not a good season until we beat one of the big dogs, MSU or OSU. Although obviously the odds of that are way, way higher than I would have let myself even dream 6 weeks ago. 7 point favorites? No way would I have thought that could happen. I thought we'd have to pull off a huge upset to beat them.

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Michigan State is the dominant football program right now, and the pressure is on them to win against Michigan. A MSU victory is the expectation, and a UM victory would be a bonus for the Wolverines.

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Michigan State is the dominant football program right now, and the pressure is on them to win against Michigan. A MSU victory is the expectation, and a UM victory would be a bonus for the Wolverines.

After watching both teams play, the expectation should be a UM win. Besides the QB position (maybe), I cannot see where msu has an advantage. Their O vs UM's D? No way. UM's offense against their d? Rutgers, Purdue, and Central moved the ball at will against msu. They have a good DL but overall the defense isn't very good. Special teams? Not even close. Coaching? Come on.

UM should win. Is that a guarantee? No, but UM is the better team and is at home. Go blue.

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Michigan State is the dominant football program right now, and the pressure is on them to win against Michigan. A MSU victory is the expectation, and a UM victory would be a bonus for the Wolverines.

Right now? The last few years, yes but right now they have not been a very dominant team. Could be a slow start that they will correct Saturday. It could also be a down year with key coaching changes and injuries, or could be the start of a shift. Time will tell.

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After watching both teams play, the expectation should be a UM win. Besides the QB position (maybe), I cannot see where msu has an advantage. Their O vs UM's D? No way. UM's offense against their d? Rutgers, Purdue, and Central moved the ball at will against msu. They have a good DL but overall the defense isn't very good. Special teams? Not even close. Coaching? Come on.

UM should win. Is that a guarantee? No, but UM is the better team and is at home. Go blue.

There is no maybe on the who has the better QB, C. Cook is definitely the better QB. Far more big play ability and has done well when needed. Rudock is a game manager and Harbaugh has done well to put him in position to succeed. So both are good in their systems but there is no maybe about who has the better QB. I was surprised to read that this is Cook's first start for MSU in AA but not sure that will impact him at all.

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Utah is #1 in the power rankings and we lost to them by a TD at their place, in spite the three INT and ineffective ground game. NW owned the best defense in the country before the Michigan offense put up 31 points and over 200 yards rushing on them. BYU was ranked before Harbaugh's boys completely dominated them. There are more than a few analysts saying that Michigan would win convincingly over Utah right now if they were to play again.

Three consecutive shutouts. I don't care if you are playing FCS teams in two of those game--which Michigan wasn't, two Top 25 teams instead--that is impressive. If it is fair that you or either poll isn't prepared to call Michigan a top-10 team, then it is also fair to say that Michigan State is a far cry from what a top-10 team should look like.

State is beat up. There are rumors coming out of EL that their Rimmington Award favorite, Jack Allen, has broken his ankle. At the very least, it is a severe high ankle sprain and good luck against our Henry, Hurst, Glasgow, and Wormley playing on one leg. Their RT is now playing LT, open season on Connor Cook--who is not playing well to date. Both TE are walking wounded and they are two men down in the secondary. This MSU team is a far cry from what we've seen the past few years. There is a reason why the point spread has almost doubled over the past few days in Vegas. It could push to 9 by kickoff.

Michigan's offense put up 24. The defense put up 7. Special Teams put up 7 .. but I digress.

As I said I'm a big believer in Harbaugh, but until the beat MSU I'll hold off on the Top 10, National Title hopes.

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Michigan's offense put up 24. The defense put up 7. Special Teams put up 7 .. but I digress.

As I said I'm a big believer in Harbaugh, but until the beat MSU I'll hold off on the Top 10, National Title hopes.

I agree that every good team does have to prove they can win the big game. Look at Cooper. Everything about his program argued he should have been able to win an equal share against M, but he never did. Of course games against one school are a small sample and he may have just been unlucky, or maybe it just was true, as the conventional wisdom would argue, that he for some reason he took the wrong approaches and prepared his team in the wrong ways when the opponent was M. It's hard to prove the counterfactual, but history and probability argue that there is such a thing as a program that can't win the big game even if we can't be sure if it is actually true or not.

In fact you can make the same argument about Bo's teams. We lost a lot more bowl games under Bo than I'd guess random chance and the rankings going in would have predicted.

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Well, no MSU game day thread yet, so I'll post this here. The MSU game, and even the OSU game, are critical. Not for the obvious reasons of needing to beat a good team to get to a good bowl game, but because it sets the tone of those rivalry games for years to come. These rivalries turn on a dime with the hiring/firing of coaches. Look at what OSU did against UM when they hired Tressel... starting in year 1 (2001). I didn't dream that UM could be turned around so quickly, and still trying to temper my expectations, but this Saturday's game is so important to the near-term future of these UM-MSU games. If we can wrestle back the bravado that comes with these games, it will pay dividends down the road.

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Michigan's offense put up 24. The defense put up 7. Special Teams put up 7 .. but I digress.

As I said I'm a big believer in Harbaugh, but until the beat MSU I'll hold off on the Top 10, National Title hopes.

If you want to get technical: Michigan's offense put up 18, Special Teams put up 14, and the defense put up 6.

MSU is not

.

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Well, no MSU game day thread yet, so I'll post this here. The MSU game, and even the OSU game, are critical. Not for the obvious reasons of needing to beat a good team to get to a good bowl game, but because it sets the tone of those rivalry games for years to come. These rivalries turn on a dime with the hiring/firing of coaches. Look at what OSU did against UM when they hired Tressel... starting in year 1 (2001). I didn't dream that UM could be turned around so quickly, and still trying to temper my expectations, but this Saturday's game is so important to the near-term future of these UM-MSU games. If we can wrestle back the bravado that comes with these games, it will pay dividends down the road.

I don't particularly believe that.

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Well, no MSU game day thread yet, so I'll post this here. The MSU game, and even the OSU game, are critical. Not for the obvious reasons of needing to beat a good team to get to a good bowl game, but because it sets the tone of those rivalry games for years to come. These rivalries turn on a dime with the hiring/firing of coaches. Look at what OSU did against UM when they hired Tressel... starting in year 1 (2001). I didn't dream that UM could be turned around so quickly, and still trying to temper my expectations, but this Saturday's game is so important to the near-term future of these UM-MSU games. If we can wrestle back the bravado that comes with these games, it will pay dividends down the road.

I agree that they're very important, but my reasoning is different. My concern has been that if Michigan didn't win either of them this year (which is the outcome I expected), those games are potentially even more difficult next year since they're both on the road (although Connie Cook gone). At the beginning of the year, it seemed PROBABLE that he could be at best 1-3 vs Sharty and CrapPit, and possibly 0-4. Now THAT would be tough to deal with.

Now, it seems like the script is flipped. Glorious.

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