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Shinma

10/11/15. Cardinals at Lions. Week 5. FOX, 4:05pm.

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I don't want to overreact to one football game, but I'm starting to think that the Detroit Lions might not be a good football team.

Stafford - I've defended him all year, but that was just awful. It was like he decided 'screw it, the season is over so I'm just going to throw it into coverage' and he's not nearly accurate enough to get away with that. Garbage performance, and he deserved to be bench. I still think he's an above average QB in the NFL when at his best, which is all a team should really need to win, but he hasn't been at his best a single game this season. The entire offensive coaching staff needs a cleanout, and they should do it now. They need to figure out if the old perfectly adequate Stafford can come back, or if this is his new normal. If it's the new normal...well he doesn't have any guaranteed money left after this year. And this organization sure loves taking giant cap hits that could have been avoided with better management in the past.

Abdullah - As big of a joke as Stafford. I know the o-line is trash and he's a rookie, but you have a chance to step up and take over the starter's role and you're anonymous for two games and can't hold onto the ball. So excited after how good he looked in game #1 and he's done nothing since. Riddick and Zenner both look better than him.

Calvin - Looks old. I'd be more worried except...

Tate - Looks just as useless as Calvin, and he doesn't have age as an excuse. Funny that he calls out the fans after another garbage performance from himself. I know his QB was awful and the offensive playcalling is terrible as well. But neither of the big money WRs have made a play all season. Nice fumble and awful penalty though.

O-Line - Still terrible. Waddle is clearly playing way too soon after the ACL and he's been just as bad as Lucas. Swanson and Tomlinson still look like busts.

I don't know if I can really criticize the defense, that 99 yard drive was awful but Palmer was dropping bombs, and why wouldn't they give up when they saw how the offense was performing?

Coaching - Just terrible. Austin is obviously going to get a head coaching job as the only competent person on this staff, why not make it in Detroit? Get rid of Caldwell and Lombardi, bring in an experienced OC to work with Austin. Let him promote someone he trusts as DC. Simple.

But of course..

GM/Ownership - Worthless as always.

Looks like a 3-13 kind of year to me. (I'm going to say they beat the Bears at home, Chiefs in London, and one random other game)

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I mean, sure, its possible that every player on offense is independently playing poorly, but usually where there is smoke there is fire.

We aren't going to have a new QB next year, so they need to find someone who can get the most out of the talent we have at the position and on offense in general. That's our only shot. Someone named Shanahan as our new HC please

Austin being HC wouldn't be horrible(though I prefer an offensive HC in today's day and age personally) but that probably means Mayhew is your GM

Edited by Nastradamus

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I mean, sure, its possible that every player on offense is independently playing poorly, but usually where there is smoke there is fire.

We aren't going to have a new QB next year, so they need to find someone who can get the most out of the talent we have at the position and on offense in general. That's our only shot. Someone named Shanahan as our new HC please

Oh, I definitely blame the coaching overall. But I am worried that Stafford has simply regressed whether it be due to an issue of his own or just having crappy coaching throughout his main developmental years. Combine that with Calvin getting old and this o-line and the offense probably won't look very good regardless.

That said I doubt anyone can do worse than Lombardi.

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Oh, I definitely blame the coaching overall. But I am worried that Stafford has simply regressed whether it be due to an issue of his own or just having crappy coaching throughout his main developmental years. Combine that with Calvin getting old and this o-line and the offense probably won't look very good regardless.

That said I doubt anyone can do worse than Lombardi.

all fair

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It really doesn't matter now but don't you think if he was trying to grab the ball, he would have used both hands?

I don't know. Probably?

I'm not saying he was trying grab it. He wasn't. He admitted as much. But in real time as that play is happening, it happens very quickly. I still think the ref missed the call, I just don't think it was overly blatant. It's an excusable miss, I guess, just like a lot of missed PI calls and other missed penalties when the ref appears to have had a clear view of the offending action.

It was a judgment based penalty that wasn't immediately apparent at first glance. That's my only point.

I think the call seems worse than it was given all of the circumstances and the focus on it after the fact. It made for a great story.

I just have a hard time getting worked up over failing to gain the benefit of a weird rule that almost no one knew existed, especially due to the lions not having been in any position where the illegal activity actually affected their ability to recover that ball for a touchdown.

Assume for a moment that this happened in a game the week before and was highly documented. I doubt the Seahawks player would have had any trouble "not" batting the ball out of the endzone and securing the win by merely grabbing it and going to the ground. That's what I meant by "earned" penalty.

A PI call or a holding call that prevents a guy from being able to make a play on a ball is an opportunity that was lost. In this case, there was no opportunity lost. Had there been a lion right next to the Seahawk and he batted it away, I'd be more upset about it.

I still don't understand the reasoning for the batting to be against the rules. It's allowed in the other areas of the field. I guess because the result of the play can be a touchback and a change of possession, they want to make it more fair to both teams having a chance to recover. Whatever.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying the lions did it to themselves. That doesn't mean that I'm glad the penalty went uncalled. It's just such a weird penalty. I can't think of anything like it. Maybe the Schwartz challenge flag rule that was changed. In that case, the opposition benefited from a penalty that they in no way earned.

Reminds me of the complaining about Dez Bryant going on the field to complain and being upset that a penalty wasn't called because of it.

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For what it's worth, Andy Benoit from SI pins blame on the players, mostly the OL's ineptitude, which has left everyone else scrambling, including Lombardi. (He's giving Lombardi too much of a pass; good coaches adjust to personnel, rather than forcing personnel to fit into a system.)

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/12/detroit-lions-matthew-stafford-jim-caldwell-joe-lombardi-0-5-nfl-week-5

At any rate, this is clearly a lost season, and the sooner the Ford family accepts this, the better. The one person worth keeping out of this mess is Teryl Austin, and if he doesn't finish the season as Interim HC, he is as good as gone.

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The one person worth keeping out of this mess is Teryl Austin, and if he doesn't finish the season as Interim HC, he is as good as gone.

Only matters if you're keeping Mayhew IMO

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I don't know. Probably?

I'm not saying he was trying grab it. He wasn't. He admitted as much. But in real time as that play is happening, it happens very quickly. I still think the ref missed the call, I just don't think it was overly blatant. It's an excusable miss, I guess, just like a lot of missed PI calls and other missed penalties when the ref appears to have had a clear view of the offending action.

It was a judgment based penalty that wasn't immediately apparent at first glance. That's my only point.

I think the call seems worse than it was given all of the circumstances and the focus on it after the fact. It made for a great story.

I just have a hard time getting worked up over failing to gain the benefit of a weird rule that almost no one knew existed, especially due to the lions not having been in any position where the illegal activity actually affected their ability to recover that ball for a touchdown.

Assume for a moment that this happened in a game the week before and was highly documented. I doubt the Seahawks player would have had any trouble "not" batting the ball out of the endzone and securing the win by merely grabbing it and going to the ground. That's what I meant by "earned" penalty.

A PI call or a holding call that prevents a guy from being able to make a play on a ball is an opportunity that was lost. In this case, there was no opportunity lost. Had there been a lion right next to the Seahawk and he batted it away, I'd be more upset about it.

I still don't understand the reasoning for the batting to be against the rules. It's allowed in the other areas of the field. I guess because the result of the play can be a touchback and a change of possession, they want to make it more fair to both teams having a chance to recover. Whatever.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying the lions did it to themselves. That doesn't mean that I'm glad the penalty went uncalled. It's just such a weird penalty. I can't think of anything like it. Maybe the Schwartz challenge flag rule that was changed. In that case, the opposition benefited from a penalty that they in no way earned.

Reminds me of the complaining about Dez Bryant going on the field to complain and being upset that a penalty wasn't called because of it.

Sure, but this is true of basically every penalty called in the national football league. Earlier in the game the Lions had a drive in Seahawks territory ended because Riley Reiff flopped on the ground on a guy who had zero chance of impacting the play. He COULD have just stood there and not done that and the play would have happened with the exact same result.

Why not just eliminate all of those rules from the game then? I mean, I agree that the Lions didn't DESERVE to win, but using your argument you'd have to go back through the game and take out every penalty that didn't really matter to determine the true deserving winner. Or, we could just say that the referees have a responsibility to call every infraction and not calling one obvious one definitely upset the balance of the game.

The purpose of the rule seems pretty obvious to me. If there is a fumble loose in the end zone the defense merely has to bat it out of the back of the end zone to gain possession rather than actually recovering it. A big advantage in a scramble type situation.

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Sure, but this is true of basically every penalty called in the national football league. Earlier in the game the Lions had a drive in Seahawks territory ended because Riley Reiff flopped on the ground on a guy who had zero chance of impacting the play. He COULD have just stood there and not done that and the play would have happened with the exact same result.

Why not just eliminate all of those rules from the game then? I mean, I agree that the Lions didn't DESERVE to win, but using your argument you'd have to go back through the game and take out every penalty that didn't really matter to determine the true deserving winner. Or, we could just say that the referees have a responsibility to call every infraction and not calling one obvious one definitely upset the balance of the game.

The purpose of the rule seems pretty obvious to me. If there is a fumble loose in the end zone the defense merely has to bat it out of the back of the end zone to gain possession rather than actually recovering it. A big advantage in a scramble type situation.

I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't call penalties if they don't affect the play. Just that benefitting from one of those types of penalties is a situation where you kind of stole one. In the rieff play, Seattle didn't deserve to be bailed out because of it, but they did. Had it not been called, I would tell Seattle fans to quit complaining. By all means, call every penalty. Just don't get too worked up when one isn't called, especially when it had no bearing on the play. It sucks that the lions lost out on a second chance. I'm just more inclined to focus my anger on Calvin and less on the referees for missing a borderline call (although I believe that the ref saw the bat and just forgot about the rule, but there is no way to know for sure and it's possible he just thought it was too close of a play and decided it didn't reach the level of an overt act).

I agree with you about the purpose of the rule. That makes a bit of sense, but at the same time, the only way it happens is if the offense has fumbled the ball prior to the goal line, so as far as I am concerned they put themselves in the position to lose the ball by fumbling it into the end zone where a touchback would occur. I'm fine with the rule as it is though. I'd just be fine if it didn't exist as well.

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Maybe Mrs. Ford is smarter than we are thinking.

Caldwell Claims Owners are not Happy

....."They're not happy, obviously, which you can anticipate and understand very well," Caldwell said Monday. "They were certainly upset about this game as anybody, like they have been the entire season. It's our job to get that turned around."

Caldwell acknowledged that he spoke directly with owner Martha Firestone Ford at some point following Sunday's game, but declined to divulge any specifics on the conversation....."

I wonder if Mrs. Ford asked him why they aren't scoring many goals or hitting a lot of home runs.

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Maybe Mrs. Ford is smarter than we are thinking.

Caldwell Claims Owners are not Happy

I wonder if Mrs. Ford asked him why they aren't scoring many goals or hitting a lot of home runs.

Being not happy with an 0-5 farce of a team doesn't make you smart, it makes you awake.

Which is more than could be said for her husband....or head coach.

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Maybe Mrs. Ford is smarter than we are thinking.

Caldwell Claims Owners are not Happy

I wonder if Mrs. Ford asked him why they aren't scoring many goals or hitting a lot of home runs.

I may be forgetting, but I don't recall ever hearing reports of this kind from the reign of Ford Senior. Of course reports like this could simply be empty gestures, but fans can hope that they amount to Mrs. Ford building a case for herself of reasons for cleaning house.

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Being not happy with an 0-5 farce of a team doesn't make you smart, it makes you awake.

Which is more than could be said for her husband....or head coach.

If she's that unhappy, maybe she should donate any profit from the NFL to a charity of her choice. Maybe do that every year the Lions finish at .500 or under?

You know the expression, money talks ******** walks. It's all lip service anyway. Did she really say she's unhappy or is it just what the fans want to hear to shut them up? If you really care about the fans and the team, sell it.

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Clean house..Lewand, Mayhew, Caldwell.

People complain about Stafford's contract...Calvin's deal is the albatross. Why they went so far above market in terms of money and length to keep a WR is beyond me. The best we can hope for is a competent GM to come along and draft well with the picks we'll have at the top of the draft the next couple of years. No more Ebrons...no more OG's from basketball schools.

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I may be forgetting, but I don't recall ever hearing reports of this kind from the reign of Ford Senior. Of course reports like this could simply be empty gestures, but fans can hope that they amount to Mrs. Ford building a case for herself of reasons for cleaning house.

Correct as we usually heard about Ford Sr. patting the clowns on the back and giving them contract extensions when they deserved to be fired.

As Lions fans, we need a house cleaning or the Fords need to sell the franchise if we ever want to see a consistent winner. I would love an owner that really cares about the team.

For example:

When James left Cleveland for Miami, Gilbert was disgusted and made it known to everyone.

Cuban lets the NBA know about how terrible the refs are in the NBA.

Do you think Jerry Jones would have sat back and said nothing if it was Dallas that got screwed by the refs in Seattle?

Speaking of Gilbert, I noticed the Quicken loans logo behind Caldwell at his press conference. I know the Fords probably would never sell, but if they would, do you think Gilbert would buy the Lions?

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So, I didn't actually watch any of this recent game. I caught a bit of it on the radio but was visiting someone in the hospital during the first half and didn't bother tuning in once I got home.

The story of the game is turnovers, right? Obviously you can't just ignore turnovers, but still. Things like that make analyzing a game almost pointless.

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So, I didn't actually watch any of this recent game. I caught a bit of it on the radio but was visiting someone in the hospital during the first half and didn't bother tuning in once I got home.

The story of the game is turnovers, right? Obviously you can't just ignore turnovers, but still. Things like that make analyzing a game almost pointless.

Turnovers destroyed the Lions. They at least won the game of turnovers 6-0. That is pretty much how Arizona scored 28 points in the second quarter.

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So, I didn't actually watch any of this recent game. I caught a bit of it on the radio but was visiting someone in the hospital during the first half and didn't bother tuning in once I got home.

The story of the game is turnovers, right? Obviously you can't just ignore turnovers, but still. Things like that make analyzing a game almost pointless.

Turnovers, then effort. This was a team that quit. The defense gave up a 99.5 yard TD drive in, I think, three plays. The offense's ineptitude has now infected the whole team.

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It was mostly turnovers, but there were a lot of other problems. I hate getting into 'effort' discussions in football just as much as baseball, but it definitely seemed like Stafford and the WRs at least had a 'screw this' attitude towards trying to win after the first couple of turnovers

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More of the same garbage...

Terry Foster ‏@TerryFoster971 41m41 minutes ago

Cory Redding knew what play was coming on his interception Sunday Coaches were screaming screen pass but redding said he already knew

Terry Foster ‏@TerryFoster971 40m40 minutes ago

Redding said when lions line up a back behind stafford the lions tend to throw a screen. He was waiting for it

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More of the same garbage...

Terry Foster ‏@TerryFoster971 41m41 minutes ago

Cory Redding knew what play was coming on his interception Sunday Coaches were screaming screen pass but redding said he already knew

Terry Foster ‏@TerryFoster971 40m40 minutes ago

Redding said when lions line up a back behind stafford the lions tend to throw a screen. He was waiting for it

I don't see why it is "garbage".

It is true that every Sunday, every game, some defensive player reads a play and is able to blow the play up as a result. Maybe it even happens several times.

If you are saying that Redding's play was nothing more than this, and some are overreacting, I get it, and you might be right.

But I don't remember a time when over the course of several games there have been multiple turnovers generated, and those turnovers are related to multiple reports of opponents knowing the plays before the snap.

Again, this line of criticism could all be overblown as a result of Tate's comments last week (which seemed designed to throw Lombardi under the bus). But this offense is performing badly enough that it would not surprise me to learn that it is more predictable than the average offense.

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That one didn't surprise me at all, the Lions throw a ton of screens and iirc it was a pretty obvious situation to run one in. I'm not sure that one is so much a 'tell' by the back's positioning as just predictable playcalling from a team that runs a very limited offense

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I don't see why it is "garbage".

It is true that every Sunday, every game, some defensive player reads a play and is able to blow the play up as a result. Maybe it even happens several times.

If you are saying that Redding's play was nothing more than this, and some are overreacting, I get it, and you might be right.

But I don't remember a time when over the course of several games there have been multiple turnovers generated, and those turnovers are related to multiple reports of opponents knowing the plays before the snap.

Again, this line of criticism could all be overblown as a result of Tate's comments last week (which seemed designed to throw Lombardi under the bus). But this offense is performing badly enough that it would not surprise me to learn that it is more predictable than the average offense.

I meant in terms of this keeps happening to the Lions, a lot. And I don't think it's just a coincidence. I agree with you.

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