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2015 Off-season thread

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You lost me at "sign Austin Jackson and bring Avila back."

Understandable, but I think both platoon well with their prospective counterparts.

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I'd prefer the younger and cheaper Bernard...but if he isn't ready, Ajax taking the short end of a platoon with Gose might work for a year...he's not gong to sign for that, but if you sign him cheap enough for three, he could be a serviceable 4th/5th OF. But...if you're gonna do that, why not just resign the popular with fans and media alike Rajai Davis

After the 2012 season I thought we had Kenny Lofton v2.0 (minus all the steals). AJax sure fell off the table...

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I'd prefer the younger and cheaper Bernard...but if he isn't ready, Ajax taking the short end of a platoon with Gose might work for a year...he's not gong to sign for that, but if you sign him cheap enough for three, he could be a serviceable 4th/5th OF. But...if you're gonna do that, why not just resign the popular with fans and media alike Rajai Davis

After the 2012 season I thought we had Kenny Lofton v2.0 (minus all the steals). AJax sure fell off the table...

Davis works too, but Stubbs and Jackson are a bit younger. I'd live with Bernard, but I went pretty cheap elsewhere and felt I had a few mil to blow.

I don't see an ideal platoon partner other than Avila out there really.

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Understandable, but I think both platoon well with their prospective counterparts.

I agree, altho I think AJax might be a luxury we cannot afford. In which case if we could re-sign Rajai at a good rate that would be ideal.

Avila would work at around $2.5M. If not we probably stick with Holaday as the backup, as there's not much else out there in FA.

Use the money saved with these 2 guys and put it towards one of the LHH LF and you still have a good overall lineup and defense.

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I'd prefer the younger and cheaper Bernard...but if he isn't ready, Ajax taking the short end of a platoon with Gose might work for a year...he's not gong to sign for that, but if you sign him cheap enough for three, he could be a serviceable 4th/5th OF. But...if you're gonna do that, why not just resign the popular with fans and media alike Rajai Davis

After the 2012 season I thought we had Kenny Lofton v2.0 (minus all the steals). AJax sure fell off the table...

They should have called up Bernard after Erie's season was over. He's on the 40 man roster--would have been good for him to cut his teeth for a month.

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Bernard is 25, has never played above AA, and has displayed 0 power at any level of baseball. Unless he's secretly a gold glove level center fielder I don't see him as anything more than minor league depth.

I'm not trying to keep hammering the guy, but relying on people like this is the sort of blunder bad organizations make. It would be like if they went into next year thinking Moya could be every day left fielder. And if that happens I might just drive to Detroit and swing a baseball bat at Al Avila's head. Don't worry, I won't actually hurt him, I'll be doing a Moya simulation where I miss 10 times in a row.

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Bernard sucks. Might as well rely on Collins or Moya. Or bring back Brennan Boesch.

In the field Collins sucks. Might as well rely on a pylon.

:laugh:

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Verhagen's K/BB rate and general lack of a true out pitch is a concern going forward. I think we'll see Greene working out of the pen...

Don't see that myself. If he is healthy he's a starter, if he's not, he may just be done.

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Pitchers: Sign J Zimmermann, 6/132m; sign veteran SP to keep Boyd/Fulmer/Greene at Toledo for 3 months (Fister, Latos, Buehrle, Lee, Haren) 1/8m; sign O’Day 3/21m; sign LHR (Perez, Parra, anyone) 2/8m; trade for Papelbon 1/11m

C - Must get a LH bat. Holaday won’t cut it for various reasons. Long-term answer: trade for Tucker Barnhart. Otherwise sign Pena or Navarro 2/8m (no to both AA and AJ)

CF - Long-term answer: trade for Tom Pham. No to Bernard. Rajai would be fine. Maybe Stubbs. Bourjos may be non-tendered

LF - Need to go cheap/creative/out on a limb here, considering huge pitching needs. Maybe trade for Josh Reddick, Jon Singleton, or Desmond Jennings. Look at S Pearce, Dom Brown, Victornio. Maybe sign Matt Joyce 1/6m

3b - Way down the list, but a LH (not Romine) bat to spell Nick would be nice

Victor (S)

McCann/Barnhart (S)

Miggy

Kinsler

Igelsias

Castellanos

Romine (S)

Joyce (L)

Gose (L)/Pham

JD

(one spot open for Collins, Machado, anyone)

Verlander

Zimmermann

Sanchez

Norris (L)

Vet

Papelbon

O’Day

Wilson

Feliz or AA

Hardy (L)

Krol or Ryan or Lobstein (L)

LH FA (L)

Edited by RatkoVarda

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Pitchers: Sign J Zimmermann, 6/132m; sign veteran SP to keep Boyd/Fulmer/Greene at Toledo for 3 months (Fister, Latos, Buehrle, Lee, Haren) 1/8m; sign O’Day 3/21m; sign LHR (Perez, Parra, anyone) 2/8m; trade for Papelbon 1/11m

C - Must get a LH bat. Holaday won’t cut it for various reasons. Long-term answer: trade for Tucker Barnhart. Otherwise sign Pena or Navarro 2/8m (no to both AA and AJ)

CF - Long-term answer: trade for Tom Pham. No to Bernard. Rajai would be fine. Maybe Stubbs. Bourjos may be non-tendered

LF - Need to go cheap/creative/out on a limb here, considering huge pitching needs. Maybe trade for Josh Reddick, Jon Singleton, or Desmond Jennings. Look at S Pearce, Dom Brown, Victornio. Maybe sign Matt Joyce 1/6m

3b - Way down the list, but a LH (not Romine) bat to spell Nick would be nice

Victor (S)

McCann/Barnhart (S)

Miggy

Kinsler

Igelsias

Castellanos

Romine (S)

Joyce (L)

Gose (L)/Pham

JD

(one spot open for Collins, Machado, anyone)

Verlander

Zimmermann

Sanchez

Norris (L)

Vet

Papelbon

O’Day

Wilson

Feliz or AA

Hardy (L)

Krol or Ryan or Lobstein (L)

LH FA (L)

Zimmermann has been my top priority since the season started. I would love to land him, but I think it might take something closer to $150M. Hope I am wrong. I'd also like Parra, but he is getting way more than 2/8. I'd say something closer to 3/20 or more. No to Papelbon. I would try to trade for Storen if the Nats are open to it. At this point, I think Papelbon and Storen both want out, and Storen probably has more trade value, so we'll see.

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Zimmermann has been my top priority since the season started. I would love to land him, but I think it might take something closer to $150M. Hope I am wrong. I'd also like Parra, but he is getting way more than 2/8. I'd say something closer to 3/20 or more. No to Papelbon. I would try to trade for Storen if the Nats are open to it. At this point, I think Papelbon and Storen both want out, and Storen probably has more trade value, so we'll see.

The Zimmerman peripherals + velocity decline + moving from NL to AL make me think his expected ERA would be 3.75 or so with Detroit, which isn't bad but not great. Couple that with 5 full season loads after TJ and his expected salary and he'd be one of the last guys I'd sign.

But to each their own.

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You're the bozo if you think they can fix all of their problems via free agency. It's hilarious that you think you know something that the entire board doesn't.

I'm not condemning the entire board - just those who think Miggy/JD/Kinsler are on the block and it's back to square 1. We KNOW they're going to add big pieces and not try to rebuild, so let's stop pretending like it will happen. No reason to condemn all of 2016 before a single pitch it thrown.

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Bernard has zero power? He slugged at 440 and 408 (really inconsistent last year) the past two years. He's not Miggy...but he's not Romine either. Everything I've read suggests he's likely a 4th OF. Playing the RH half of a CF platoon with Gose makes him a 4th OF most nights. Plus...he's cheap as hell. we need all the $$$ we can get to fix the bullpen and find a decent full time LF (Moya and Collins?...please)

I could see Greene working out of the pen..at least in April and May. He's coming off a nerve injury...nerves are tricky. I have a nerve injury...so I know. :)

Edited by Shinzaki

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They should have called up Bernard after Erie's season was over. He's on the 40 man roster--would have been good for him to cut his teeth for a month.

I had hoped they would as well. The fact that they did not probably says a lot about what Avila & Co think about him as an OF option in 2016.

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Another thing the Tigers could do is to sign a guy like Plouffe to play 3b and move Castellanos back to LF. Avila has already mentioned that they will probably sign 2 starters, and also they will bring in a closer. I don't think they should trade for a closer, especially Aroldis because he's close to FA. I'd rather sign O'Day, and make him the closer; or even bring back Soria. I also like Tony Sipp for the pen.

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Bernard is 25, has never played above AA, and has displayed 0 power at any level of baseball. Unless he's secretly a gold glove level center fielder I don't see him as anything more than minor league depth.

I'm not trying to keep hammering the guy, but relying on people like this is the sort of blunder bad organizations make. It would be like if they went into next year thinking Moya could be every day left fielder. And if that happens I might just drive to Detroit and swing a baseball bat at Al Avila's head. Don't worry, I won't actually hurt him, I'll be doing a Moya simulation where I miss 10 times in a row.

Davis was about six weeks shy of his 26th birthday when he was final called up. Bernard posted slightly better numbers at both A and AA than Davis, a comp that seems pretty fair.

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Another thing the Tigers could do is to sign a guy like Plouffe to play 3b and move Castellanos back to LF. Avila has already mentioned that they will probably sign 2 starters, and also they will bring in a closer. I don't think they should trade for a closer, especially Aroldis because he's close to FA. I'd rather sign O'Day, and make him the closer; or even bring back Soria. I also like Tony Sipp for the pen.

The progression of 3Bmen not being able to play 3B isn't always send him to LF. Nick is very unathletic. He's a 1B/Dh if he isn't a 3B, IMO.

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Signing Plouffe and moving Nick feels like we're treading water at 3RD and not serious about improving the OF

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I don't think they should trade for a closer, especially Aroldis because he's close to FA. I'd rather sign O'Day, and make him the closer; or even bring back Soria. I also like Tony Sipp for the pen.

I could see a trade brew with the Reds, perhaps for Chapman & Bruce, but don't see that happening without including including Fulmer +, so I agree, I'd pass.

I wouldn't rule out trading for a good relief pitcher though, as long as the price is right. Maybe Papelbon, maybe Benoit, assuming SD exercises his option. If they don't, I'd be interested in bring him back to Detroit as a FA.

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Signing Plouffe and moving Nick feels like we're treading water at 3RD and not serious about improving the OF

yuo - seems like a zero net move, esp since Plouffe is a RHH and probably a worse hitter going forward than Nick. At least in theory more OPS should be obtainable per $$ in the OF than at 3rd.

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If my budget was unlimited, this is what I'd do:

LF: Heyward/Zobrist/Gordon ($18-$25M)

SP1, SP2: Samardzija/Anderson/Chen/Happ/Iwakuma/Kennedy ($25-$32M)

RP1, RP2: O'Day/Kelley/Hunter/Lowe ($10-$12M)

SP5/RP: Bud Norris ($5M-$8M)

RHH CF: AJax/Rajai ($5M-$8M)

C: Avila ($2M-$4M)

That's $65M-$91M needed to have a 90+ win team. Since there's probably a budget, I'd a) cut out Norris or sign him as RP2 and b) trade either Iglesias or (preferably) a combo of Machado/Boyd/prospects for a cheapish SP. That leaves $45M-$68M needed for maybe an 88 win team. $45M is the likely budget based on history, IMO, so it's not unpossible, but it's a very tall task.

I suspect they will cut out the pricey LF option which makes everything a lot easier. They could also go with Holaday at C and save a couple million. At any rate, Al Avila has his work cut out for him.

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I could see a trade brew with the Reds, perhaps for Chapman & Bruce, but don't see that happening without including including Fulmer +, so I agree, I'd pass.

I wouldn't rule out trading for a good relief pitcher though, as long as the price is right. Maybe Papelbon, maybe Benoit, assuming SD exercises his option. If they don't, I'd be interested in bring him back to Detroit as a FA.

If Kimbrel becomes available, that could be a better fit, because he's signed for 3 more years, and we might match up better trade-wise with SD.

It's not too difficult to envision something along the lines of Iglesias, and/or Boyd and/or prospects going to SD for Kimbrel, either Shields, Cashner or Ross, $$$, and a RP. Mix and match and adjust $$$ from there. BJ Upton would even be a fit depending on the $$$. They might even like AlAl--they're good at reclaiming those types.

But that all depends on what Preller(?) is thinking, which seems really hard to tell month to month.

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For the purposes of this thread is there an educated estimate of the $$ available to spend on free agency assuming the payroll will be similar to this year? I remember reading something like $ 45 million ?. Is this accurate ?

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For the purposes of this thread is there an educated estimate of the $$ available to spend on free agency assuming the payroll will be similar to this year? I remember reading something like $ 45 million ?. Is this accurate ?

It depends n whether the luxury tax is a ceiling. If so, they have about 40 million to spend in free agency or in taking on salary in trades.

Personally, I don't think the luxury tax is a ceiling. I don't think that means unlimited budget. But I think ilitch will happily go above the tax limit for the right signings.

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