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2015 Off-season thread

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Our team is at a crossroads. Either Mike I calls the shots and one last push is made, or others, with a look to selling the team look for cost control. Retaining Amsus and his staff appears to be a cost contol move. I think there will be something in between.

If it were my team ,I would be looking to shed salaries. I would listen to offers for Miggy, JV,Kinsler, and VMart. If the offers were not stellar, I would look at replacing as many Starting pitchers and bullpen blokes as I could. I am thinking of a minimum of 2 SPS and at maybe 3 bullpen arms.

If there is no fire sale, we need 4 to 5 new arms.

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Let's not kid ourselves. No one is taking VMartinez's contract without the Tigers eating a bunch of it, taking on bad salary in return, or adding prospects to it. Either he improves or retires for the contract to not be as much of an albatross as it was this past season.

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There should be no doubt that the Tigers will behave like a team that believes it can win a World Series next year and I expect the offseason moves will reflect this. Everything that Ilitch has done supports this. I don't see Iglesias, JD or anyone who is considered part of the core being traded, especially without having replacements within the organization. The big question this offseason will be how much we're willing to spend to address our problem areas.

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WHOA - the clinical insanity in this thread took about 10 minutes to show itself, eh??

Y'all are nuts. If we had a decent bullpen and a lights out starter we make the playoffs easily. This was a WS caliber offense and it should be the same next year.

Every effort will be made to improve the pitching and we're dangerous in 2016.

fire sale, rebuild, trade JD, trade Kinsler or Iggy - SHake my DAMN head!

I may wish one or two of you could manage the Tigers, but it took all of 6 hours to remind me I'm glad NONE of you bozos control the purse strings or phone lines.

LORDY.

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You're the bozo if you think they can fix all of their problems via free agency. It's hilarious that you think you know something that the entire board doesn't.

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Trading Cabrera would likely be a move to get prospects. I don't see that happening--Avila will be looking to plug holes with proven talent. If we had any depth in the minors at 2B, Kinsler is the guy I could see traded for pitching, but we'd just be creating another problem.

Yeah, and we see how well that worked out for the Marlins...................

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The Tiger's problems are nothing that Yoenis Cespedes and David Price and few washed up relievers couldn't fix..........oh wait, They tried that didn't they?

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Our team is at a crossroads. Either Mike I calls the shots and one last push is made, or others, with a look to selling the team look for cost control. Retaining Amsus and his staff appears to be a cost contol move. I think there will be something in between.

I think this is where we are at. They are looking for improvement in the bottom line of franchise operation. Either to make the team more attractive for a potential sale or just to make more money off the team.

I will be surprised to see any big names signed. I foresee Avila being directed to take a middle ground, hold on to our big names to attract the fans, try to rebuild from within to save costs and maybe sign a reclamation project while another team picks up some salary or sign a mediocre upgrade or two.

A certain recipe for another disappointing season.

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WHOA - the clinical insanity in this thread took about 10 minutes to show itself, eh??

Y'all are nuts. If we had a decent bullpen and a lights out starter we make the playoffs easily. This was a WS caliber offense and it should be the same next year.......

Kinsler was terrible for the first half of the season.

Cabrera was injured for an extended amount of time.

VMart was terrible for about the whole season.

WS caliber offense? I don't know about that.

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WS caliber offense? I don't know about that.

OPS+ of 106, yet runs/game was below average 4.28 vs 4.39, or a R/G+ of 97. There is room for improvement in translating runners into runs.

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Offense can score runs but has a horrible platoon split. Wouldn't call is WS caliber unless you can guarantee all your playoff opponents only start Left Handers.....:ponder:

Add a couple of effective LH bats and maybe we are in pretty decent shape offensively.

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You're the bozo if you think they can fix all of their problems via free agency. It's hilarious that you think you know something that the entire board doesn't.

They don't to fix all of their problems. A starting pitcher (2-3 type rotation guy), a set up man and closer would go a long way.

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They don't to fix all of their problems. A starting pitcher (2-3 type rotation guy), a set up man and closer would go a long way.

Let's say they get a starting pitcher(2-3 rotation guy), what do you see as their 5 man rotation next season?

I see:

1. Verlander

2. Signed 2-3 guy

3. ? Norris? Sanchez, but how reliable is he?

4. ?

5. ?

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For LF, where I also think the Tigers need a LH bat, I wonder if the Reds would trade Jay Bruce. They were willing to part with him at the deadline, but the deal fell apart with the Mets. I don't recall any reports of what the Mets were offering; maybe the Tigers could put together a package for him. Otherwise, I'd love Jayson Heyward but I don't think that's happening.

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They have 2008 level pitching. IIRC, it took them basically 2 full seasons to build a championship caliber pitching staff. 2009 we had the Twins tiebreaker game and 2010 was basically a throwaway.

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Let's say they get a starting pitcher(2-3 rotation guy), what do you see as their 5 man rotation next season?

I see:

1. Verlander

2. Signed 2-3 guy

3. ? Norris? Sanchez, but how reliable is he?

4. ?

5. ?

TBH - I don't see them having much chance if Greene does not come back OK. I think filling 2 starting positions plus the pen plus LF without going way over the lux tax is too big a pull and I don't want to see the alternative, which is they trade Fulmer and/or Boyd. If Greene is back, you can do it by looking for one upper tier starter and then a mid-level guy and you have some hope of having enough money left for other needs. If Greene is off the table, I don't really see any way to get back to competitive without throwing away all the young pitching depth. And with JV at 32 and Sanchez being Sanchez, that would be too dumb a strategy to contemplate.

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Moya and Collins should spend 2016 at Toledo. With Green, Ficociello, and Jones moving up from Erie the Hens will have some pop next year.

I would trade Iglesias...he's brittle physically and possibly emtionally and I really don't want anyone on my team that dresses like a 15 year-old HS kid from Woodland Hills.

Verlander, Sanchez until he gets hurt then Fulmer, Norris, FA, and yeah...Simon (if he'll take a 1-2 year deal). Krol (you're pitching an inning Ian, throw anything other than a fastball or a slider and I shank you), Boyd, Hardy, Wilson, FA (Soria?) , FA, FA, FA.

Jeez..our staff is a mess.

LF, 1/5 of a rotation and half a bullpen....then we can address the bench

I would like to see what a Bernard/Gose platoon looks like in CF

Agree with everything here here but the bolded. Let Collins and Moya play every day in ST to fight it out for a roster spot. Moya's better defense vs Collins' OK MLB offensive track record. I let Simon walk and use that money for bullpen.

--Give Bernard a chance to be Gose's platoon partner/speed guy off the bench. He's cheap, he gets on base, and for a guy who "can't hit"--he has hit so far. No need to spend 10-12x as much on a guy for this role unless he proves he can't hack it at some point.

--Trading Iglesias for a quality starting pitcher is fine by me. Machado won't hit for Jose's average, but then again Jose wasn't supposed to be able to hit .300 again. Defensively, not losing much on that swap and hopefully Machado won't be chronically injured.

--Wilson and Hardy are all usable parts for next year's BP. Pencil VerHagen in--lightly. Make Krol earn his spot in ST, Farmer as well. Sign two shut-down relievers, don't be cheap, don't go old, avoid injury histories or control issues as much as possible. AlAl has served his purpose, Feliz ate some innings with mixed results, and Rondon gave up--adios.

--JV and Norris are two for-sures in the rotation. Work the phones and see what you can get in return for Sanchez. If the return nets a corner OF, a young SP with upside or maybe even a closer--pull the trigger. Otherwise, just keep him and see which Sanchez we get in '16. Boyd, Fulmer and Greene fight it out for a rotation spot. Depending on other moves, maybe for two spots. The return on Iglasias hopefully gives us our #3 starter. Why #3? Because Norris looks every bit like a #2. Ryan, Lobstein shouldn't be real options for Avila to break north.

--McCann and Doc are fine as the two catchers, and leaves the Tigers better off than most teams all-around. Holaday flashed a little power this year in a small sample size. No need to spend money here!

--Finding an everyday LF or a legit #2 starter is going to be $20M per-year expense unless Avila is willing to reach. It doesn't appear Collins or Moya are real considerations for him for this role.

Bottom line: Trade Iglasias and Sanchez for two of your three biggest needs--A #3 SP, an everyday LF, elite closer. Maybe you can even--somehow--get all three. Save the FA money for the one guy the org really likes and go get him.

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TBH - I don't see them having much chance if Greene does not come back OK..

I'm not sure he'll be good even if he's healthy. When he started strong last year, he was not getting a lot of strikeouts which is consistent with his minor league record. The only time he had a good K rate was with the Yankees. I'm not counting him out, but not counting on him either. Sanchez is the pivotal pitcher. If he's not healthy, they are in big trouble.

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They don't to fix all of their problems. A starting pitcher (2-3 type rotation guy), a set up man and closer would go a long way.

They had Price and Soriano the first half of the season... they need a lot more than just that.

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Given our contract situations, this team is what it is. We basically have no choice but to;

- Count on JV,Sanchez(despite recent health issues) and Norris(talented, but unproven) to fill the 1,3 and 4 spots in our rotation

- Count on Fullmer/Boyd/Greene to fill the 5 spot. (we basically have no idea what any of them can provide, but there is a lot of talent between them)

- Hope that guys like Kinsler,Cabrera and Victor can stay healthy and productive as they continue to age

- Spend some big cash in FA to fill the holes at SP,LF and in the bullpen.

Its impossible to really say if we are a contender. We absolutely have enough of a talent base to become a contender next year, but we simply have to hope that certain things go our way, especially when it comes to health.

What I'd do

Trade Iglesias for a guy like Tyson Ross or Jon Niese.

Let Al Al walk, re-sign Feliz for 1 mil guaranteed plus heavy incentives.

Sign Shawn Kelley to close. Sign Simon for a bullpen/emergency starter role. Take the risk and go in house with LHRPs. . If anything add a bounce back candidate like a Sean Marshall.

Sign Dexter Fowler to play LF and Austin Jackson or Stubbs to platoon CF.

Bring back Avila

C McCann/Avila

1B Cabrera

2B Kinsler

SS Machado Romine

3B Castellanos

LF Fowler

CF Gose/Stubbs

RF JD

DH Victor

SP - JV - Ross/Niese - Sanchez - Norris - Greene/Boyd/Fullmer

RHRP - Kelley - Wilson - Feliz - Simon - Rondon/Nesbitt/Farmer/Verhagen/Valdez/Jimenez

LHRP - Hardy - Krol/Lobstein/Ryan/Boyd(maybe a bounce back candidate FA like a Sean Marshall. Deadline deal possible here)

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Yep...Sanchez is a guy we need to be healthy. Has he ever been healthy for an entire season? Go all in on Heyward. Trot a Bernard/Gose platoon out in CF. Hope Fulmer and Norris can start the year in your rotation and pitch well enough to stick. ind a closer..even if it's Soria

I have a gut feeling that Joe Jiminez will start the year in Erie with an eye towards a mid season or earlier call up.

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They had Price and Soriano the first half of the season... they need a lot more than just that.

I'm just going to consider replacing Price with a healthy Verlander a push. Soria was not both the closer and setup man. Regardless, I said they need both. Hardy, Wilson and VerHagen are reasonable arms to pencil in and they will have a pile of long reliever candidates. I actually think they need two starters because of questions about Sanchez and Greene but one top of the rotation arm might let them work with Lobstein/Farmer/Boyd until Fulmer is ready.

I'll add that I would consider trading Iglesias plus pitchers not named Boyd or Fulmer for a LF. But I'd want that player to be a top of the order batter.

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Verhagen's K/BB rate and general lack of a true out pitch is a concern going forward. I think we'll see Greene working out of the pen.While Verhagen is somewhere else...I'd love to see us aggressively pursue a deal with Cincy for Chapman. His impending FA may bring his trade value down a bit. Phillips is getting older...they can move Suarez to 2b and plug Iggy in at short. Iggy is the centerpiece. Throw in Turnbull, Hill and Moya and get the Reds management drunk enough and we're good to go.

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Given our contract situations, this team is what it is. We basically have no choice but to;

- Count on JV,Sanchez(despite recent health issues) and Norris(talented, but unproven) to fill the 1,3 and 4 spots in our rotation

- Count on Fullmer/Boyd/Greene to fill the 5 spot. (we basically have no idea what any of them can provide, but there is a lot of talent between them)

- Hope that guys like Kinsler,Cabrera and Victor can stay healthy and productive as they continue to age

- Spend some big cash in FA to fill the holes at SP,LF and in the bullpen.

Its impossible to really say if we are a contender. We absolutely have enough of a talent base to become a contender next year, but we simply have to hope that certain things go our way, especially when it comes to health.

What I'd do

Trade Iglesias for a guy like Tyson Ross or Jon Niese.

Let Al Al walk, re-sign Feliz for 1 mil guaranteed plus heavy incentives.

Sign Shawn Kelley to close. Sign Simon for a bullpen/emergency starter role. Take the risk and go in house with LHRPs. . If anything add a bounce back candidate like a Sean Marshall.

Sign Dexter Fowler to play LF and Austin Jackson or Stubbs to platoon CF.

Bring back Avila

C McCann/Avila

1B Cabrera

2B Kinsler

SS Machado Romine

3B Castellanos

LF Fowler

CF Gose/Stubbs

RF JD

DH Victor

SP - JV - Ross/Niese - Sanchez - Norris - Greene/Boyd/Fullmer

RHRP - Kelley - Wilson - Feliz - Simon - Rondon/Nesbitt/Farmer/Verhagen/Valdez/Jimenez

LHRP - Hardy - Krol/Lobstein/Ryan/Boyd(maybe a bounce back candidate FA like a Sean Marshall. Deadline deal possible here)

You lost me at "sign Austin Jackson and bring Avila back."

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