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2015 Off-season thread

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I agree. I understand why management likes to keep everything secretive, but I think it can be over done.

There is secretive and there is DD. I think it's important to send the team off with this kind of motivation after the season they had and the front office changes.

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I always wonder about what it's like to be in that meeting as clearly one of the marginal players.

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If it is indeed only because they are questioned, I agree. I would bet that they often get the same thing that other professionals get, which is questioned and then given some really weak logic to back it up. Like not understanding the difference between a player's current season stats, and the projectibility of his offensive skills to the MLB.

Hey, I get that I'm your least favorite poster on here, and that's fine. But go back and read what I said. I have never suggested Bernard was some kind of godsend. I specifically said I have no idea if he will ever even play in the majors. I was merely pointing out that he was described as being "not a good player" and I took issue with that. Maybe he is "not a good bet to become a Major League player" or "not a good prospect" but he was one of the best players in Erie this year, so calling him "not good" was . . . not good IMO.

I have no idea who this Benke guy is, but I am not him. I also have never claimed to be a scout, and I respect those who have seen all of these players a lot more than I have. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, too.

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Well, the Tigers need pitching, pitching, and pitching. Left field is a question mark. Gose could use a platoon partner. Catcher is still relatively young and inexperienced (at least what's in the books for next season). VMartinez was awful and they need him to be useful. I'm not sure how much of that Avila can keep close to the vest.

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It has nothing to do with being the "master," and everything to do with understanding how to scout a player and project them to a Major League role. I've been through the brief version of this before, but I'll give you the elongated one...

Add this all up and you have a guy with a 70-40-40-40-30 tool profile that isn't a max effort player. That's a recipe for a Role 30 player, or an org guy. Fourth outfielders have a tool -- and that tool has to be more than good speed -- that makes them worth keeping on a big league bench, be it good defense, an ability to hit for average, some pop with contact questions, something. Bernard doesn't have that. He runs fast in a race, but can't use it in a game. His defense/arm doesn't stack up to make him a late game defensive replacement. He's not going to hit enough to compensate for all of that. Bernard's an org guy, and he'll be a nice guy to have around in Erie and Toledo over the next couple of years, but if he's carrying a bench role in Detroit, people are going to be complaining about the quality of the bench even more than they already do.

So here's a quick question Mark:

What's the reason for Bernard having decent years at-bat the last two years? Is it a "mirage" due to the quality of pitching that he's facing? Is he feasting on weak A+ and AA arms but getting owned by the better pitchers (as you say, anyone with a decent FB or decent breaking ball is too much for him to handle)?

Thanks.

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I agree seeing a real scouting report was pretty dang cool. Thanks Mark!

I disagree that VaBengal is Benke.

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One writer wrote about the tight ship that DD ran. The guy got to know a few of the players in the minors. He'd text them questions, they'd answer. At one point a player was down there on a rehab and the writer asked these players how he looked. I am pretty sure it was Peralta after his suspension. They were honest, said he was in LF, looked ok. Not embarassing. He wrote about it. He heard DD was not happy that teh info got out and those players never responded to his texts or calls again.

It is interesting that Avila appears to be more open than DD. Fans do need to hear that because the ticket agents will have their hands full in getting people to renew this year. DD as team CEO and President would be sensitive to that you'd think. Avila's baseball operations only so while I'm sure he wants tickets to sell it's not his primary objective. Yet he's doing a small part to sell.

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Hey, I get that I'm your least favorite poster on here, and that's fine. But go back and read what I said. I have never suggested Bernard was some kind of godsend. I specifically said I have no idea if he will ever even play in the majors. I was merely pointing out that he was described as being "not a good player" and I took issue with that. Maybe he is "not a good bet to become a Major League player" or "not a good prospect" but he was one of the best players in Erie this year, so calling him "not good" was . . . not good IMO.

I have no idea who this Benke guy is, but I am not him. I also have never claimed to be a scout, and I respect those who have seen all of these players a lot more than I have. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, too.

If he can't play in the major leagues, then he isn't a good player in the context of the discussion being made.

Being a good player in Erie does not help the Tigers win games.

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Hey, I get that I'm your least favorite poster on here, and that's fine. But go back and read what I said. I have never suggested Bernard was some kind of godsend. I specifically said I have no idea if he will ever even play in the majors. I was merely pointing out that he was described as being "not a good player" and I took issue with that. Maybe he is "not a good bet to become a Major League player" or "not a good prospect" but he was one of the best players in Erie this year, so calling him "not good" was . . . not good IMO.

I have no idea who this Benke guy is, but I am not him. I also have never claimed to be a scout, and I respect those who have seen all of these players a lot more than I have. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, too.

Nobody ever said you can't have an opinion, so stop the victim bit, its tired. As far as Bernard, I think that he isn't and will never be a good ML player. That being said, he is good. Every professional player is likely objectively good at baseball to ever even get to the minor leagues. I think he is not good in the major league context.

As far as Benke, that was an inside joke, and I think it is far more likely that you are filling his role than you are actually Benke.

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I will say one more thing about Mr Wynton Bernard...I've been watching the Tigers since 1970...I'm almost 100% sure I've seen worse players in our lineup. could he be worse than Pedro Garcia was at 2b in 1976? Is he worse than 1995's Danny Bautista? No. Is he a great player...no. Is he going to be the difference between a WS and an early fall? No. He's a cheap spare part...an aftermarket fender because the OEM is $400 more than you can afford. He's a belt from Walmart because you can't afford the Coach belt because you need an entire wardrobe. He's a Little Caesar's $5 pizza...hot, fresh, affordable and a pretty darn good choice when you have an empty fridge and $5 to your name

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I will say one more thing about Mr Wynton Bernard...I've been watching the Tigers since 1970...I'm almost 100% sure I've seen worse players in our lineup. could he be worse than Pedro Garcia was at 2b in 1976? Is he worse than 1995's Danny Bautista? No. Is he a great player...no. Is he going to be the difference between a WS and an early fall? No. He's a cheap spare part...an aftermarket fender because the OEM is $400 more than you can afford. He's a belt from Walmart because you can't afford the Coach belt because you need an entire wardrobe. He's a Little Caesar's $5 pizza...hot, fresh, affordable and a pretty darn good choice when you have an empty fridge and $5 to your name

The counterargument is that there has been no indication that we can't afford the $400 oem fender.

Edit: There is also quite a difference between not good and the worst player ever.

Edited by Walt

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I will say one more thing about Mr Wynton Bernard...I've been watching the Tigers since 1970...I'm almost 100% sure I've seen worse players in our lineup. could he be worse than Pedro Garcia was at 2b in 1976? Is he worse than 1995's Danny Bautista? No. Is he a great player...no. Is he going to be the difference between a WS and an early fall? No. He's a cheap spare part...an aftermarket fender because the OEM is $400 more than you can afford. He's a belt from Walmart because you can't afford the Coach belt because you need an entire wardrobe. He's a Little Caesar's $5 pizza...hot, fresh, affordable and a pretty darn good choice when you have an empty fridge and $5 to your name

Ezequial Carrera, Xavier Avery, and Quinton Berry were all in fact cheaper than Bernard, in that they did not require a 40 man roster spot.

If their current eval of Bernard is in fact what it appears to be, that position in the org is easily upgraded/replaced.

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Here are two things that I sincerely believe after reading this thread:

(a) Bernard is terrible

(b) Bernard is one of the best position prospects in the organization

I wouldn't put him in the top 5 outfielders...

1. Derek Hill

2. Christin Stewart

3. Steve Moya

4. Mike Gerber

5. Julio Martinez

Hope that makes you feel better...

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I thought he and juan encarnacion would be studs

Encarnacion is the next Clemente for sure, and Mike Drumright will win 250 games.

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Germany Schaefer. I thought that kid was destined for the hall.

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Roy Cullenbine, the most underrated player in Detroit Tiger history

still better than Wyton Benard today

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