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Mr.TaterSalad

The Front Office Thread

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I ask the following questions . . .

1. Do Martin Mayhew and Tom Lewand deserve the right to finish out the season if it becomes apparent that we will end up with a losing and/or 8-8 record this year?

2. If they don't, at what point do you fire them during the season? Is there a certain number of losses they are allowed?

3. Would you be upset/disappointed if Brian Xanders were automatically appointed General Manager without a thorough search and vetting process on other candidates being done first?

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1. I'm not sure there's a great point in firing a GM midseason, but if the plan is to move on because they aren't winning this year, there's nothing inherently wrong with doing it midseason either.

2. When eliminated from the playoffs?

3. Probably

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I ask the following questions . . .

1. Do Martin Mayhew and Tom Lewand deserve the right to finish out the season if it becomes apparent that we will end up with a losing and/or 8-8 record this year?

2. If they don't, at what point do you fire them during the season? Is there a certain number of losses they are allowed?

3. Would you be upset/disappointed if Brian Xanders were automatically appointed General Manager without a thorough search and vetting process on other candidates being done first?

1. No

2. If you have a replacement in mind and prefer them drafting over the current regime.

3. I would be OK with Xanders, I prefer the Lions at least try to look around to see who might be available.

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Who can predict what Mrs. Firestone-Ford and kids will do ?? If they go 0-5 , a distinct possibility , I think all is possible and a complete gutting and overhaul would seem the answer , but predicting what the Lions do in anything is difficult if not impossible.

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To answer my own questions. . . I don't think that either Mayhew or Lewand deserve the chance to finish out the season. However, I'm not sure what improvements you can really make by firing them midseason. Given that it wouldn't do much for the franchise as a whole, I'd let them finish out the season, in spite of my dislike for both.

While I'm not letting them go midseason, I would start my search for new front office personnel if the Lions fall to five losses before they get to five wins. That would signify to me that the playoffs are out of reach.

The team search for a new President and GM this time around has to be more comprehensive than replacing Millen was. I fully expect a multitude of candidates, including Brian Xanders, to be involved in the search. If I'm firing both Mayhew and Lewand then I'd let the new Team President and GM decide whether or not any other front office personnel (scouts mainly) should be allowed to stay.

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To answer my own questions. . . I don't think that either Mayhew or Lewand deserve the chance to finish out the season. However, I'm not sure what improvements you can really make by firing them midseason. Given that it wouldn't do much for the franchise as a whole, I'd let them finish out the season, in spite of my dislike for both.

While I'm not letting them go midseason, I would start my search for new front office personnel if the Lions fall to five losses before they get to five wins. That would signify to me that the playoffs are out of reach.

The team search for a new President and GM this time around has to be more comprehensive than replacing Millen was. I fully expect a multitude of candidates, including Brian Xanders, to be involved in the search. If I'm firing both Mayhew and Lewand then I'd let the new Team President and GM decide whether or not any other front office personnel (scouts mainly) should be allowed to stay.

This is key, the front office has largely been the same for over a decade:

Lewand: 19 years

Mayhew: 14 years

Senior VP of Football Operations Cedric Saunders: 10 years

VP of Pro Personnel Sheldon White: 19 years

Senior Personnel Executive Scott McEwene: 29 years

Senior Personnel Executive Brian Xanders: 3 years

Assistant Director of Pro Personnel Rob Lohman: 7 years

Pro Personnel Coordinator Patrick Mularkey: 7 years

Director of College Scouting Lance Newmark: 18 years

National Scout Dave Uyrus: 16 years

Regional Scout Chad Henry: 19 years

Regional Scout Dave Sears: 7 years

Regional Scout Cary Conklin: 7 years

Regional Scout Joe Kelleher: 5 years

Regional Scout Alan Anderson: 5 years

Regional Scout David Anderson: 4 years

I am of the opinion that it takes a collection of great football minds to create a winning organization and this group has been together for, on average, 11.8 years. The Lions collective record in the 12 year stint: 66-126 (.343), with zero divisional titles, two wildcard berths (and loses), zero playoff wins. I'm not 100% sure what the typical turnover is for when it comes to personnel executives and scouts when a new regime is put in place but it seems absolutely crazy to me (both now and when it happened) take keep in tact one of the worst run franchises in the history of sports and do nothing but fire the GM and promote his VP without a single interview. Mindblowing that the Fords (and then Mayhew/Lewand) could, in good conscious, decide that the best course of action for the franchise was to keep the band together after such historic failure is the epitome of ineptitude. It borderlines on cronyism with the main focus keeping the good ol' boys together as the primary goal and winning as a secondary goal.

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This is key, the front office has largely been the same for over a decade:

Lewand: 19 years

Mayhew: 14 years

Senior VP of Football Operations Cedric Saunders: 10 years

VP of Pro Personnel Sheldon White: 19 years

Senior Personnel Executive Scott McEwene: 29 years

Senior Personnel Executive Brian Xanders: 3 years

Assistant Director of Pro Personnel Rob Lohman: 7 years

Pro Personnel Coordinator Patrick Mularkey: 7 years

Director of College Scouting Lance Newmark: 18 years

National Scout Dave Uyrus: 16 years

Regional Scout Chad Henry: 19 years

Regional Scout Dave Sears: 7 years

Regional Scout Cary Conklin: 7 years

Regional Scout Joe Kelleher: 5 years

Regional Scout Alan Anderson: 5 years

Regional Scout David Anderson: 4 years

I am of the opinion that it takes a collection of great football minds to create a winning organization and this group has been together for, on average, 11.8 years. The Lions collective record in the 12 year stint: 66-126 (.343), with zero divisional titles, two wildcard berths (and loses), zero playoff wins. I'm not 100% sure what the typical turnover is for when it comes to personnel executives and scouts when a new regime is put in place but it seems absolutely crazy to me (both now and when it happened) take keep in tact one of the worst run franchises in the history of sports and do nothing but fire the GM and promote his VP without a single interview. Mindblowing that the Fords (and then Mayhew/Lewand) could, in good conscious, decide that the best course of action for the franchise was to keep the band together after such historic failure is the epitome of ineptitude. It borderlines on cronyism with the main focus keeping the good ol' boys together as the primary goal and winning as a secondary goal.

What actually blows my mind about this (and every NFL team from what I could gather from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_staffs) Is how small these front offices are. Assuming they all have average salaries of 200k (which has to be a high estimation since I believe I read most scouts make less than 100k), there is no way they are spending more than 5million a year on these guys. The NFL salary cap is ~144 million dollars. Seems extremely penny wise but dollar stupid to not be investing 30-40million in teams of data scientists. I mean, sure, I'm sure they have to pay to get data from PFF and their other sources, but when money is no object...

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This is key, the front office has largely been the same for over a decade:

Lewand: 19 years

Mayhew: 14 years

Senior VP of Football Operations Cedric Saunders: 10 years

VP of Pro Personnel Sheldon White: 19 years

Senior Personnel Executive Scott McEwene: 29 years

Senior Personnel Executive Brian Xanders: 3 years

Assistant Director of Pro Personnel Rob Lohman: 7 years

Pro Personnel Coordinator Patrick Mularkey: 7 years

Director of College Scouting Lance Newmark: 18 years

National Scout Dave Uyrus: 16 years

Regional Scout Chad Henry: 19 years

Regional Scout Dave Sears: 7 years

Regional Scout Cary Conklin: 7 years

Regional Scout Joe Kelleher: 5 years

Regional Scout Alan Anderson: 5 years

Regional Scout David Anderson: 4 years

Looking at that list, in my uneducated opinion of how an NFL front office really works, I'd be inclined to say fire anyone whose tenure with the organization overlapped with Millen's or Mayhew/Lewand's. I don't know that it would actually work, but it would feel like rubbing the stench out of the dirty laundry. Whomever I selected for new Team President and GM, I would let the new regime fire everyone if they saw fit.

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Looking at that list, in my uneducated opinion of how an NFL front office really works, I'd be inclined to say fire anyone whose tenure with the organization overlapped with Millen's or Mayhew/Lewand's. I don't know that it would actually work, but it would feel like rubbing the stench out of the dirty laundry. Whomever I selected for new Team President and GM, I would let the new regime fire everyone if they saw fit.

Just so I understand, are you saying you would do this right now, or is this part of if the season winds up being a failure?

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Just so I understand, are you saying you would do this right now, or is this part of if the season winds up being a failure?

I want this team to make it clear that Mayhew and Lewand are not coming back should it become clear they aren't making the playoffs. I want their search to start early for new front office leadership, if we get to that point in the season. However, I would not prematurely fire Lewand or Mayhew.

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I want this team to make it clear that Mayhew and Lewand are not coming back should it become clear they aren't making the playoffs. I want their search to start early for new front office leadership, if we get to that point in the season. However, I would not prematurely fire Lewand or Mayhew.

I have very limited knowledge of NFL front offices. Do you believe letting Mayhew/Lewand know "this year is win or lose" would have any impact on the current season at this point? I would guess it does not.

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Now is not the time. I'd let them play out the season & then make the decision, because it will expand the pool of people from which to draw. & not just GMs, but the support staff. IF the season turns out terrible, I'd blow the whole thing up. That makes me especially sad because I really like Jim Caldwell, but you would have to allow a new regime to pick the coach.

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So far in the Caldwell era, a top-rated offense and a top-rated defense have both been driven into a ditch. If there's a plan with this current regime, I don't get it

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I'm not big on firing someone in season. It ain't going to change the tide and its not like we have some great in house candidate to take over either as coach or GM

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I have very limited knowledge of NFL front offices. Do you believe letting Mayhew/Lewand know "this year is win or lose" would have any impact on the current season at this point? I would guess it does not.

Given the fickle nature of the NFL I think all personnel knows if they don't win they could be shown the door.

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It has to be asked: Does Lombardi survive to the end of the season?

If they start 0-8, he will be gone.

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Given the fickle nature of the NFL I think all personnel knows if they don't win they could be shown the door.

But the Lions haven't won, and it's clear that no one in the front office ever gets fired. EchO is right, this is baldfaced cronyism.

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It has to be asked: Does Lombardi survive to the end of the season?

I'd like to see Caldwell take over playcalling duties soon, if not now. I've felt that way since about week 8 last year though.

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I really don't see anyone's job is on the line for this year sans Joe Lombardi. Then again I'm seeing a normally bad season around 4-6 wins.

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It is Tuesday, 9:40am. Why is Martin Mayhew still employed? Why? What is the point? The losing isn't Caldwell's fault. This team stinks. Riley Reiff, Eric Ebron, Kyle Van Noy............that's why. Big Play Slay talking about signing autographs...........how about just shutting up and playing football?

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I've always been under the belief that Mayhew's (and team ownerships) strategy was to try and recreate exactly what the St. Louis Rams had in the late 1990's and early 2000'. I think he (and team ownership) always wanted to have a turf-based football team that beat its opponents by putting up offensive numbers that almost nobody could match. A Rams type team, i.e. one with a flashy, air-attack offense, would also please management by putting butts back into seats, ratings on the TV screens and jerseys on the backs of fans. That's why he picked so many high-end offenseive players in Stafford, Pettigrew, Williams (Derek), Best, Leshoure, Young, Broyles, Ebron, Abdullah.

Up until last offseason, I believed the way forward for the Lions to be successful, was to build a world beating defense ala the 2000's Ravens. Last year they came somewhat close to achieving that goal and then had their Ray Lewis (Suh) walk out on them. Last off-season and this though, I gave up on that idea, as I realized that Mayhew wasn't going anywhere as a GM and the general drafting strategy wasn't going to change; though I became a little hopeful that with Brian Xanders in town it would start to change. I gave into Mayhew's philosophy of flash on offense with tons of yards and touchdowns. I gave into the idea that good or bad, right or wrong, this was Stafford's team and not Suh's or not a balanced attack. This team was built for Stafford and the offense to lead the charge and win games. It's the reason I through my hands up and said go get Stafford as many wapons as the cap would allow. Watkins, Evans, Lee or Beckham were the guys I incorrectly wanted the Lions to target when I should have been pleading for Aaron Donald in 2014.

Now, I'm just done. No, not done with the Lions as a franchise but done buying into anything Mayhew has to sell. I don't think he deserves a chance to build the roster all over again and continue to lead this team. I don't think that being the "Greatest Show On Turf 2.0" is a winning model for putting together a team. I want new leadership. I want a front office philopshy that tries to move forward by finding a better QB that Stafford. I want one that buildswith a more balanced approach. As I said earlier, I'm giving him the rest of the season and then I want he and his cohort Tom Lewand out of the organization.

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It is tough to make that change during the season. I think that the whole front office needs to be cleaned out top to bottom. The key to a resurrection of this franchise is to hire the right scouts that know how to evaluate college talent that becomes good pro talent. Unfortunately these type of scouts are currently employed. Until they can get it right in the draft this team is going nowhere.

To answer the questions:

1. Dump Mathew and Lewand

2. Do this right after the loss on thanksgiving.

3. I would be disappointed if Xanders got the job. Go outside of the organization for the new leadership.

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