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9/27/15. Broncos at Lions. Sunday Night Football. NBC, 8:30pm.

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Beside the fact that the Lions are in the bottom 5 of NFL franchises all time, there may be another reason only ten people post in this forum.

Stafford is not the only problem with this team. But he is a problem. His two INTs and one fumble on Sunday were typical Stafford. He didn't know when to take a sack or throw it away prior to Lombardi getting here, and he doesn't know when to throw it away or take a sack now. (If anything, he did a better job last year, under Lombardi, than in any other year in his career.)

This is not a defense of Lombardi, who should be on a game-by-game basis with regard to playcalling duties.

I think its usually pretty civil here,but either way it wasn't my goal to offend anyone so I'm sorry.

Stafford typically throws INTs at a pretty low frequency actually*, but most of his INTs this year haven't been pretty. That is part of what I was saying earlier though, as I think its a result of him pressing to some degree due to the play of the run game and OL. I'm not sure if our predictability is a Stafford thing I suppose, but its not something I heard before Lombardi got here.

Point being, I think saying something like Stafford is a problem is hyperbole. Stafford isn't perfect? Sure. Having a guy of his caliber can be frustrating, but not a problem IMO. Maybe I'm the crazy one, but I think in this league if you don't have at least a Stafford caliber QB, you'd kill for a Stafford caliber QB. That makes it hard for me to call him a problem.

For some perspective on the subject.

NFL Career Pass Interception % Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

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Is the Detroit Lions'*offense*tipping*plays? - Pride Of Detroit

Assuming this is true, that's really, really terrible. It also explains (in part) why the OL is so stinkin' bad. Even if a defense knows for 99% certainty that it's a run vs. pass, they can play completely differently at the DL position and know they won't get burned by the offense doing something unpredictable.

See Tecmo Super Bowl.

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I think its usually pretty civil here,but either way it wasn't my goal to offend anyone so I'm sorry.

Stafford typically throws INTs at a pretty low frequency actually*, but most of his INTs this year haven't been pretty. That is part of what I was saying earlier though, as I think its a result of him pressing to some degree due to the play of the run game and OL. I'm not sure if our predictability is a Stafford thing I suppose, but its not something I heard before Lombardi got here.

Point being, I think saying something like Stafford is a problem is hyperbole. Stafford isn't perfect? Sure. Having a guy of his caliber can be frustrating, but not a problem IMO. Maybe I'm the crazy one, but I think in this league if you don't have at least a Stafford caliber QB, you'd kill for a Stafford caliber QB. That makes it hard for me to call him a problem.

For some perspective on the subject.

NFL Career Pass Interception % Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

I wouldnt call him a problem, but i wouldnt call him top tier either. Not even top ten.

He's not good enough for the lions to consistently win.

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This whole 'not the type to call out someone else' thing bugs me. What is the type? What NFL coach, in week 3, is going to call out another member of his staff? Is there such a coach in the league who does that?

Ditka absolutely would have done it. I could see Parcells doing it. I could see Harbaugh doing it. Herm Edwards possibly. Belichek possibly.

But that presumes they were fed up with an assistant, something we are assuming Caldwell is (or at least ought to be).

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I wouldnt call him a problem, but i wouldnt call him top tier either. Not even top ten.

He's not good enough for the lions to consistently win.

He is above average, and when on a hot streak, he looks unstoppable. So he gets paid "franchise QB" money, and shielded from the challenge of competition.

But he can't get past those three damning bad decisions each game. And his contract is a contributing factor to the inability of the franchise to keep a generational talent like Suh.

Lions fans may feel like we are out of QB purgatory with Stafford, but it's not true.

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......Lions fans may feel like we are out of QB purgatory with Stafford, but it's not true.

I agree, but the cost of replacing Stafford far outweighs the cost of keeping him. As others have said, it is not easy finding an NFL QB at Stafford's level. You would probably have to play musical chairs at QB and hope you get lucky with someone.

Would everyone agree that Stafford is the best QB in Lions history or at least during the Super Bowl era?

Edited by nd1377

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I see Caldwell as one of the classiest coaches in the NFL and I don't think he would call out any member of his staff, team, etc.

I am not sure about any coach publicly calling out a member of his staff because it would cause problems within their coaching circle.

Yeah...the point is that there is not one coach in the NFL that would call out a member of the staff. So saying 'Caldwell' is not the type...does not makes sense to me. There is NO type that would.

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I wouldnt call him a problem, but i wouldnt call him top tier either. Not even top ten.

He's not good enough for the lions to consistently win.

I didn't call him those things. He's in the 12-15 range IMO, arguably with some upside He's better than a guy like Palmer at the same age, for example, and Palmer eventually took that next step post 30, or just because of Arians maybe I guess). Romo's another guy who continued to get better at an age older than STafford is now too. He's probably better than Eli at the same age as well, though I'm not unaware that Eli has rings obviously.

I said to Echo the other day that when you have a QB in Stafford's QB, you basically need every other facet of the game to be above average. You can maybe get away with one area being average, but none below average(between run game, receiving options, OL, run D and pass D) and no more than one being only average. This is why I don't "blame" Stafford currently. His limitations are the same as they've always been, but are simply amplified by the terrible run game and below average to terrible OL. Being elite at WR doesn't cover those other holes as some often suggest.

Edited by Nastradamus

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He is above average, and when on a hot streak, he looks unstoppable. So he gets paid "franchise QB" money, and shielded from the challenge of competition.

But he can't get past those three damning bad decisions each game. And his contract is a contributing factor to the inability of the franchise to keep a generational talent like Suh.

Lions fans may feel like we are out of QB purgatory with Stafford, but it's not true.

His contract is the least of our concerns IMO.

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You know, I try to avoid such things, but that's some seriously skin thin man. I know its 2015 and all, but yeesh. If you don't want to discuss the subject with me, so be it. I'd rather keep as much conversation as possible going around here, but if you don't want to respond to the points it is what it is.

I hardly feel comfortable responding to one of your posts without an insult. Cake eater.

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He is above average, and when on a hot streak, he looks unstoppable. So he gets paid "franchise QB" money, and shielded from the challenge of competition.

Part of the Lions problem (one of many) was that they were so bad right when the rookie pay scale was getting so completely out of whack that they finally, majorly, overhauled it all.

Between 2001 and 2010 the Lions had picks: 18, 3, 2, 7 (trade down from 6), 10, 9, 2, 17, 1, 2...

In a ten year period just as those salaries for the top drafted guys were ballooning way out of control, Detroit selected in the top ten EIGHT times. Heck, they were in the top 3 FIVE times! Now yeah... it's great to get the top level talent, and for the most part the Lions hit on those top level guys. But that also meant huge contracts that will not only tie up salary cap at the time they are signed, but also hamper restructuring and resigning those guys.

Again, this is only PART of the problem. A team who sucked as bad as the Lions in the 201Xs wouldn't see the same hands-tied situation that the Lions did re: Huge Salaries for very high draft picks.

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Yeah...the point is that there is not one coach in the NFL that would call out a member of the staff. So saying 'Caldwell' is not the type...does not makes sense to me. There is NO type that would.

But there are ways that you can do it diplomatically.

Q: Have you considered replacing Lombardi as play caller on offence?

A: When you start out 0-3 you need to look at all areas... Offensive plays, Defensive plays, Lockerroom Playlist... everything is up for examination and debate. I have no plans to take over play calling right now, no. But I also wouldn't be a good head coach if I didn't look at each area of the team to try to find ways to improve.

Granted, that's as much coach speak as anything else, but it as a fan I'd read into that something to the effect of: Okay, he recognizes it's a problem... let's see how he addresses it.

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Even if he said those things it wouldn't change a thing.

He either is considering changes or not, and the fact he avoided it in a press conference tells me nothing.

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A few interesting PFF statistics:

The Lions roster is currently the most negative roster (collectively) in the NFL. This means when adding up all the individuals players PFF rankings the Lions come in dead last (-57 overall coming in just a bit worse than TB at -55.8). The biggest culprit, according to PFF, is Stafford at -12.7 which ranks him as the worst starter in the NFL through three games. Offensively the next few lowest rated are pretty much every player drafted in the last two years in order (Waddle, Lucas, Ebron, Swanson, Tomlinson) who range from -9.1 to -6.1. The defense is clearly the stronger unit with the lowest rated being Walker (-4.4), Diggs, Cudjo, Slay, and Wilson and the highest being Josh Bynes (Levy's replacement, oddly enough) and Ansah. Bynes is our highest rated defender which makes me think that while losing Levy is obviously an issue, may be less of an issue with Bynes backing him up than losing Suh/Fairley/Mosley/Johnson and the new DT being our lowest rated player.

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A few interesting PFF statistics:

.... Offensively the next few lowest rated are pretty much every player drafted in the last two years in order (Waddle, Lucas, Ebron, Swanson, Tomlinson) who range from -9.1 to -6.1. ....

SOL/LOL

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Yeah...the point is that there is not one coach in the NFL that would call out a member of the staff.

I disagree with this assertion.

I think some would, but it would require them to be fed up with the member of staff.

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........The biggest culprit, according to PFF, is Stafford at -12.7 which ranks him as the worst starter in the NFL through three games. Offensively the next few lowest rated are pretty much every player drafted in the last two years in order (Waddle, Lucas, Ebron, Swanson, Tomlinson) who range from -9.1 to -6.1.....

Stafford deserves blame but his offensive line has been pathetic. A QB with a terrible offensive line is not going to look good and I don't care who the QB is. To add to the offensive problems, Bell looks terrible too.

Edited by nd1377

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He is above average, and when on a hot streak, he looks unstoppable. So he gets paid "franchise QB" money, and shielded from the challenge of competition.

But he can't get past those three damning bad decisions each game. And his contract is a contributing factor to the inability of the franchise to keep a generational talent like Suh.

Lions fans may feel like we are out of QB purgatory with Stafford, but it's not true.

Suh's contract is crazier than Stafford's and he's currently on an 0-3 team with a garbage defense

So it's pretty easy for me to imagine an alternate Lions reality where you're making this exact post about Suh's contract preventing us from having Calvin or Stafford

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Suh's contract is crazier than Stafford's and he's currently on an 0-3 team with a garbage defense

So it's pretty easy for me to imagine an alternate Lions reality where you're making this exact post about Suh's contract preventing us from having Calvin or Stafford

And the Lions offense is garbage so what can we be happy about? Special teams? They even had an extra point blocked so that is not good too.

Can someone please tell me anything positive about the Lions after their first 3 games? I have tried to find something and I can't find it.

Edited by nd1377

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Suh's contract is crazier than Stafford's and he's currently on an 0-3 team with a garbage defense

So it's pretty easy for me to imagine an alternate Lions reality where you're making this exact post about Suh's contract preventing us from having Calvin or Stafford

I see your point. If it were my money, I would rather spend it on Suh as the anchor of a top-five defense, than on Stafford, but I know that is also a recipe for complaints like, "Can't we get someone better than Trent Dilfer in here!?!"

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Stafford deserves blame but his offensive line has been pathetic. A QB with a terrible offensive line is not going to look good and I don't care who the QB is. To add to the offensive problems, Bell looks terrible too.

Exhibit B, Andrew Luck, the lowest rated passer in the NFL right now.

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I see your point. If it were my money, I would rather spend it on Suh as the anchor of a top-five defense, than on Stafford, but I know that is also a recipe for complaints like, "Can't we get someone better than Trent Dilfer in here!?!"

Yah, you can't win with Dilfer any more.

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Stafford deserves blame but his offensive line has been pathetic. A QB with a terrible offensive line is not going to look good and I don't care who the QB is. To add to the offensive problems, Bell looks terrible too.

and TBF, turnover is always hard on an O-Line. Even a group of good O-Linemen can take a while to develop performance as a group. These guys may not all be bums, but if not they need to start improving week to week to prove it.

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I see your point. If it were my money, I would rather spend it on Suh as the anchor of a top-five defense, than on Stafford, but I know that is also a recipe for complaints like, "Can't we get someone better than Trent Dilfer in here!?!"

I wish we had Suh as well and the Lions definitely mishandled that situation. I would just say that in general it would be easier to get solid DT play for a lot less than Suh is making than solid QB play for a lot less than Stafford is making.

Unfortunately the Lions decided to not really do that. I would still say Ngata was a shrewd pickup, but otherwise they just got a bunch of depth guys (I like Walker despite his bad play so far, but counting on him to start...)

It would be like if they lost Stafford and then traded for a decent 38 year old QB and otherwise ignored the position. Just baffling.

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I wish we had Suh as well and the Lions definitely mishandled that situation. I would just say that in general it would be easier to get solid DT play for a lot less than Suh is making than solid QB play for a lot less than Stafford is making.

Unfortunately the Lions decided to not really do that. I would still say Ngata was a shrewd pickup, but otherwise they just got a bunch of depth guys (I like Walker despite his bad play so far, but counting on him to start...)

It would be like if they lost Stafford and then traded for a decent 38 year old QB and otherwise ignored the position. Just baffling.

Well they did trade a 3rd rounder for Wright and Reid had a good offseason. I don't know that they ignored it.

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