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Dave Dombrowski released from contract, Al Avila takes over as GM VP of Baseball OPS

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Sabretooth-

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Apologies if it is coming off that way. I'm just trying to understand what people who wanted more from ilitch wanted to hear exactly. I'm hearing lots of calls for more transparency or explanation, but I'm just not seeing what could have made it better.

I'm mostly at peace with the decision, even if I would have preferred that DD stayed. I understand a desire to try a different direction. I think the team is in good shape, and I think a lot of that can be seen as being helped by Avila. So I'm cool with the change.

I also have no problem with the timing. When it's time to make a change, don't delay it. I see no value in having DD stay on if it isn't going to be him leading the team in the offseason.

I'll probably be where you are in a few months....much of my sensibility on Mr I's state of mind depends on those impromptu interviews that he will do, and much of my evaluation of Avila will depend on who he hires as manager and what he does with the bullpen.

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Prior to Dombrowski, Ilitch was the second worst owner in Tiger history behind Monahan.

I never liked Ilitch all that much, but the way he handled this has made me like him even less. Sure, it's a great idea to get rid of one of the 5 best GMs in baseball, and then hand a 5 year deal to a guy with no GM experience whatsoever. A guy who is going to probably do things with the same philosophy as the GM you just fired.

Even allowing for some personal issue that caused Ilitch to suddenly fire DD in the middle of the season, it made no sense to just hand Avila a 5 year contract before seeing what he can do. So if he turns out to be a huge failure, we're stuck with him. Didn't they learn from handing the manager's job to someone who had never done it?

Let's not act like Avila has no experience.

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Well, he's provided you with a winning team and entertainment for almost a decade, so I would say he's holding up his end of the bargain. You think you aren't getting your tax dollars' worth?

Agreed....we're getting our tax dollars worth as Tigers fans, big time, and no amount of interviews or public relations changes that.

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it made no sense to just hand Avila a 5 year contract before seeing what he can do. So if he turns out to be a huge failure, we're stuck with him.

This is just silly thinking. A. It's not like Avila is some 37 year old crosschecked that was promoted. He's been a number 2 GM for what 20 years? He's not some green kid.

B. How is he gonna get a chance to show what he can do when there are few transactions between now and the offseason? Make him an interim? Give him a one year deal? Well that's gonna cause problems cause there is a reason GMs and managers don't often work as lame ducks. The players and other FO personnel like to know the guy is gonna be beyond next week cause it provides some stability.

C. How are we stuck with him if he sucks? Even if Avila is paid the same as Dave that's $15 million total. I don't think Mike I has a problem eating $15 million as he's done it before with Sheffield or Easily.

D. Brad's failure has zero to do with how Avila will do in the future. There are plenty of great managers with experience that sucked in spots (For example leyland in Colorado) and plenty with little to no experience that did OK (Matheny in STL comes to mind. There are plenty of GMs with no experience that did great (theo epstein anyone?) and plenty that had experience that weren't that great (kevin towers in AZ i'm looking at you). To just say this one way failed once so let's never do it again really limits a pool of potential great candidates.

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Avila should have thrown DD under the bus more in his press conference. They are friends, DD wouldn't have been bothered by this. He touted the 'win now' stuff too much. This is how you find yourself in the hot seat shortly after getting hired, particuarly with a team like this that will be lucky to finish out .500 for the season.

AA is 0-1. Let's hope Boyd can get AA onto the board.

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Avila should have thrown DD under the bus more in his press conference. They are friends, DD wouldn't have been bothered by this. He touted the 'win now' stuff too much. This is how you find yourself in the hot seat shortly after getting hired, particuarly with a team like this that will be lucky to finish out .500 for the season.

AA is 0-1. Let's hope Boyd can get AA onto the board.

Right, so the owner tells you to put the petal to the metal immediately, gives you a 5 year deal, and AA is supposed to say let's look to next year?

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Even if AA does suck, I'm not concerned that we may be paying him $10-15 million-ish. I'm concerned that Ilitch won't make the necessary change, if it requires it. He gave Randy Smith an awful lot of rope. But I think Ilitch is a different kind of owner now, than he was back then.

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Right, so the owner tells you to put the petal to the metal immediately, gives you a 5 year deal, and AA is supposed to say let's look to next year?

Tongue in cheek. Though he really should have toned down the win now stuff. It's okay to say it, but not keep repeating it. We don't have that kind of ball club right now and everyone knows it.

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I'd be surprised if Avila is getting more than 1 mil per. DD is supposedly one of the highest paid GMs in the game at 3 mil per.

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DD's mistakes and shortcomings nothwithstanding, Mr. I's success as Tigers owner correlates directly to DD.

DD gave Mr. I credibility as owner of the Tigers, and losing DD is a step backwards and diminishes its credibility in my eyes. Mr. I brings a passion to win and a big checkbook, which are great, but his age and the loss of his key executive diminishes his ability and credibility as a successful owner going forward IMHO.

If they succeed going forward, Avila should get to write the epilogue in any future book written by or about DD.

The thing is a lot of DD's success has also depended on owners with big checkbooks. And to some degree, he also benefited from Avila's eye and family baseball history. I don't think Ilitch automatically loses credibility. He still has a checkbook and in Avila the man who was doing a good portion of the GM job anyway. He has also has his Red Wing experience which wasn't an overnight success either.

Time will tell.

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The thing is a lot of DD's success has also depended on owners with big checkbooks. And to some degree, he also benefited from Avila's eye and family baseball history. I don't think Ilitch automatically loses credibility. He still has a checkbook and in Avila the man who was doing a good portion of the GM job anyway. He has also has his Red Wing experience which wasn't an overnight success either.

Time will tell.

All good points.

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Let's not act like Avila has no experience.

There's nothing to act like. He has never been a GM. That's an irrefutable fact

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I am not arguing against these points but these are not my points.

I'm really just concerned that we lost the best piece in this organization by a good distance, and the owner is attempting a kind of re-tooling of the FO and roster when he doesn't even feel up to making public appearances. That sounds like a disconnect to me.

I agree with this

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Well, he's provided you with a winning team and entertainment for almost a decade, so I would say he's holding up his end of the bargain. You think you aren't getting your tax dollars' worth?

I'm not saying that. I'm just stressing that it's not like he owes the fan nothing, even though it is his team

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This is just silly thinking. A. It's not like Avila is some 37 year old crosschecked that was promoted. He's been a number 2 GM for what 20 years? He's not some green kid.

B. How is he gonna get a chance to show what he can do when there are few transactions between now and the offseason? Make him an interim? Give him a one year deal? Well that's gonna cause problems cause there is a reason GMs and managers don't often work as lame ducks. The players and other FO personnel like to know the guy is gonna be beyond next week cause it provides some stability.

C. How are we stuck with him if he sucks? Even if Avila is paid the same as Dave that's $15 million total. I don't think Mike I has a problem eating $15 million as he's done it before with Sheffield or Easily.

D. Brad's failure has zero to do with how Avila will do in the future. There are plenty of great managers with experience that sucked in spots (For example leyland in Colorado) and plenty with little to no experience that did OK (Matheny in STL comes to mind. There are plenty of GMs with no experience that did great (theo epstein anyone?) and plenty that had experience that weren't that great (kevin towers in AZ i'm looking at you). To just say this one way failed once so let's never do it again really limits a pool of potential great candidates.

So a perfectly respectful discussion turns into being called silly. Nice.

Newsflash: being second in command is a far cry from being the top dog. We have no idea how AA is going to be as a GM because he's never done that job

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So a perfectly respectful discussion turns into being called silly. Nice.

Newsflash: being second in command is a far cry from being the top dog. We have no idea how AA is going to be as a GM because he's never done that job

Thankfully those making the decisions to make him the new GM have a pretty good idea of how he'll do. They know more than any of us do.

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Thankfully those making the decisions to make him the new GM have a pretty good idea of how he'll do. They know more than any of us do.

They have a better idea than we do, but they still can't know how he'll do since he's never done it.

For instance, a lot of people who think Reagan was a great President don't feel the same about George Bush Sr., even though he served under Reagan for many years.

Being number two can certainly prepare someone for taking over as the top dog, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll do a good job.

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ironic that Ilitch stuck with the Idiot Twins (McHale/Smith) way too long, but was quick to to pull the plug on one of the most accomplished executives in baseball, after 4 consecutive playoff appearances. I guess when you're 89, patience isn't a luxury.

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I always say having Ilitch as owner is a blessing and a curse. He puts up the $$ but he also meddles. He played shortstop in the minors and I imagine he thinks he knows a thing or two about baseball.

I would've liked to see what Dombrowski could have done if left alone to build a team, rather than being encumbered by decisions that have Ilitch's fingerprints all over them like signing Prince Fielder, or handing out premature contract extensions like Dum Dum suckers on Halloween, or "collecting stars."

I'm hoping for the best, but it looks like Tiger baseball is about to become a Shakespearean tragedy, complete with plots and schemes amongst the royal family as they jockey for position while the king lay dying. Caught in the middle will be the fair fans. And there'll be a swordfight in there somewhere.

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I wonder...Will the team Dombrowski assembled stay loyal to him, or will they continue working with the Tigers under AA? Will AA even want to keep the same brain trust, scouts, etc.?

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Just caught up on DD's comments as I'm on the road for work.

In summary, WTF. I mean, this makes 0.0 sense. Lack of any explanation for someone who's done their job as well as him....wtf. Avila getting the job Saturday but DD not knowing until Tuesday...wtf. Just not the way a well run business in conducted; this is how we change the manager of a pizzeria location.

I like AA, love the Tigers, and will continue to be all in rooting for their future. But I continue to be confused and lose confidence in the ownership. I'm just hoping they got a good lottery ticket in AA

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What about Kaline, Horton and Trammell? I assume Ilitch will remain loyal to them.

And will Dan Gilbert keep Avila when he buys the team in the next 3-5 years?

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I wonder...Will the team Dombrowski assembled stay loyal to him, or will they continue working with the Tigers under AA? Will AA even want to keep the same brain trust, scouts, etc.?

Didn't he say the people they wanted to stay would?

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