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07/01/2015: Pittsburgh Pirates (Liriano) at Detroit Tigers (Ryan) - 1:08 PM

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Um....I was under the impression that the division title was booked?

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The damn thing about this is that the bullpen has actually exceeded my expectations by a good margin, Soria has been very good, Miggy and Iggy have been healthy and have been top-shelf, VMart is back and swinging, JD is having a HoF season, Cespedes is even better than we hoped, Gose/Davis have been better than I expected in CF, Lobstein and Ryan actually have done a decent job holding down the 5th slot in JV's absence, and McCann has been outstanding.....

.....and we STILL suck!

Bottom line is that we need at least one good starter and at least one good reliever from outside of the organization and we need them FAST. I'm disappointed by the failings of the rotation but it's hardly a shock that Sanchez and JV have struggled or that Greene was not up to the task or that Simon is a mediocre pitcher. And if the bullpen has been a surprise it's been in the positive direction!

DD has f'd this pitching staff up royally and his hand-picked manager has not been able to make it work. I blame them both, however DD is the one who needs to stay and Brad is the one who needs to go. That won't necessarily fix this team this year, but it's probably a necessity at this point. Brad has become a joke, a punchline with the fans, and I don't get any sense that anybody wants him here (FWIW).

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Price often knows stuff behind the scenes, so it's possible something is up. It might be the right move, but managerial firings don't excite me much. I think they are a .500 team with him or without him. There are just too many holes in the pitching staff.

Price also said the players are the players which is pretty much the prelude of a management change. Like you said though, I don't know what that accomplishes in terms of the pitching. On the other hand, if there are issues in the clubhouse the Tigers can't let that go unaddressed.

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The damn thing about this is that the bullpen has actually exceeded my expectations by a good margin, Soria has been very good, Miggy and Iggy have been healthy and have been top-shelf, VMart is back and swinging, JD is having a HoF season, Cespedes is even better than we hoped, Gose/Davis have been better than I expected in CF, Lobstein and Ryan actually have done a decent job holding down the 5th slot in JV's absence, and McCann has been outstanding.....

.....and we STILL suck!

Bottom line is that we need at least one good starter and at least one good reliever from outside of the organization and we need them FAST. I'm disappointed by the failings of the rotation but it's hardly a shock that Sanchez and JV have struggled or that Greene was not up to the task or that Simon is a mediocre pitcher. And if the bullpen has been a surprise it's been in the positive direction!

DD has f'd this pitching staff up royally and his hand-picked manager has not been able to make it work. I blame them both, however DD is the one who needs to stay and Brad is the one who needs to go. That won't necessarily fix this team this year, but it's probably a necessity at this point. Brad has become a joke, a punchline with the fans, and I don't get any sense that anybody wants him here (FWIW).

Don't discount our double plays and outs we make on the basepaths for our struggles. Our offensive numbers look good at the plate, but if you take into account all the extra outs we've made on the base paths and on double plays our offensive numbers suddenly wouldn't look that good, which explains why we are 12th in baseball in runs scored despite being 3rd in OPS.

I think that and our non Price starters are the biggest reasons for our struggles. You can't blame Brad on the starters struggles or the double plays but maybe you can on the baserunning mistakes, but even that would be a stretch. These guys should know proper base running by this stage in their baseball careers.

edit: For the record we are 13-3 in David Price starts and 10 games under .500 when he doesn't start. So basically when he isn't on the mound we turn into the worst team in the American League.

Edited by RandyMarsh

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The Tigers also have a weird team in that mostly the players (since June 1st especially) are either amazing or among the worst in MLB. The overall stats are nice, no one is on base for the 4 guys that can actually hit

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Don't discount our double plays and outs we make on the basepaths for our struggles. Our offensive numbers look good at the plate, but if you take into account all the extra outs we've made on the base paths and on double plays our offensive numbers suddenly wouldn't look that good, which explains why we are 12th in baseball in runs scored despite being 3rd in OPS.

I think that and our non Price starters are the biggest reasons for our struggles. You can't blame Brad on the starters struggles or the double plays but maybe you can on the baserunning mistakes, but even that would be a stretch. These guys should know proper base running by this stage in their baseball careers.

edit: For the record we are 13-3 in David Price starts and 10 games under .500 when he doesn't start. So basically when he isn't on the mound we turn into the worst team in the American League.

Great points, it's not all on Brad...however I don't believe that Brad is better than whoever the best available guy is out there, and this team has to do something to try and change the trajectory this season.

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He throws really hard

he's gotta be good

So if you had the choice to keep ONLY THE PLAYERS YOU WANTED IN THE ENTIRE TIGERS ORGANIZATION, at their current contracts, who would it be

I'm thinking

SP: Price, Sanchez

RP: Wilson

C: McCann, Avila

1B: Cabrera

SS: Iglesias

OF: Cespdes, Martinez

Some guys in the low minors

I mean obviously I'd keep guys like Moya, Gose, Castellanos and Collins and so on just because they're basically free, but if I was able to exchange them for anything possibly of value I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Well, that was a depressing exercise.

The Tigers are in a bit of a weird place, in that the JV and VMart deals are the only *bad* contracts at this point. They could easily get their 2016 payroll down to $80M or so at the deadline if they wanted by dealing Anibal and Ian.

The problem, as you are saying here, is that beyond a couple of the club-controlled guys in the bigs, they have just no young, cheap talent to fill in the gaps. They could throw Machado at 2B, Farmer to the rotation, and play Collins and Gose full-time, maybe platoon Bernard with Gose, but you would only expect replacement level performances.

At this point, two games out of 2nd WC, if that grows to 5 at the deadline, Cespedes, Price, Simon, Ian, Anibal, Soria all need to be dealt. Wilson too if someone offers up a good haul.

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I can see no situation where the tigers are sellers.

I can. They clearly aren't at that point yet, but could be soon.

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I can. They clearly aren't at that point yet, but could be soon.

Yep, I'm really hoping they stay in it for as long as possible, but if they are a ways out of the 2nd WC, they'd probably have to pass 5 teams and wouldn't be playing well. It'd be realllllly tough to only take 2 draft picks for Price, Soria, Cespedes. And it'd be tougher to give up future assets trying to salvage a lost season.

DD would know what needed to be done. Illitch might veto but I doubt it.

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Yep, I'm really hoping they stay in it for as long as possible, but if they are a ways out of the 2nd WC, they'd probably have to pass 5 teams and wouldn't be playing well. It'd be realllllly tough to only take 2 draft picks for Price, Soria, Cespedes. And it'd be tougher to give up future assets trying to salvage a lost season.

DD would know what needed to be done. Illitch might veto but I doubt it.

Yeah in that scenario I think they clearly should be sellers(assuming they come across good offers). We would not only collect some future assets but it would allow us to kind of "tank" the rest of the season while seeing what some of the guys from the minors can do. Cause from everything I've heard this next draft class is supposed to be pretty damn good and if we could get a top 10 pick it would not only allow us to possibly draft an elite talent for a change, it would also allow us to sign a type A free agent in the offseason without worrying about losing our 1st round pick.

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If the Tigers turn into sellers at this point, that would be a major mistake IMO. They have one of the best players in the game, three other major weapons (VM, Ces, JD) and a pretty good supporting cast. They have some damn good pieces on the pitching staff. They can win this division with some smart moves.

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If the Tigers turn into sellers at this point, that would be a major mistake IMO. They have one of the best players in the game, three other major weapons (VM, Ces, JD) and a pretty good supporting cast. They have some damn good pieces on the pitching staff. They can win this division with some smart moves.

I just think if they're pretty much out of it by July 31, start re-building around those pieces for next season.

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I just think if they're pretty much out of it by July 31, start re-building around those pieces for next season.

I don't think they'll wait that long. I can see them making a trade with a team like Miami a couple weeks before the deadline.

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An 8-2 stretch or a 7-game winning streak will make everything look a LOT different. I'm just not sure that we have one of those in us in the next 2-3 weeks. Hope I am proven wrong.

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Jeff Farrell getting the callup after a short stint in Toledo. Wagner from the Toledo Blade: Jeff Farrell began season w/ @erie_seawolves, 12 saves, 35 K's in 27 IP, 1.67 ERA.

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Jeff Farrell getting the callup after a short stint in Toledo. Wagner from the Toledo Blade: Jeff Farrell began season w/ @erie_seawolves, 12 saves, 35 K's in 27 IP, 1.67 ERA.

He of the 5.5 era last year in Erie as a starter. He pitched one inning in Toledo this year. Here's hoping he found something new this year.

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I don't know why so many people assume he's going to be good. He has potential, but hasn't proven himself for any length of time.

This mystifies me as well. But at the same time, he is probably as much of a bullpen option as any in the organization right now.

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Agreed. Its not ausmus' fault the team sucks. Its dombrowski's fault and chadd's fault. And whomever is picking the pitchers.

Yes, but it's easier to fire the manager which always leads to a 53 game winning streak.

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