Jump to content

RedRamage

How much longer do we wait for Castellanos?

Recommended Posts

Nick's hitting has been a little disappointing, but with a tweak of bad luck on groundballs and a tweak of improvement on BB/K and HR/FB similar to what he did in AAA, he would have a slash like 280/330/450. As it is, Nick's projections for the remainder of the season from ZIPS/Steamer/DC average out to around 265/315/415, a little above the median for an AL 3Bman, pretty valuable if he continues to play decent defense.

Overall, he could easily match what Austin Jackson did in CF in 2013 (or what Trevor Plouffe has done over the last few years) and that's good enough.

For the Tigers to give up on him at this point would be extremely foolish. He's holding absolutely nobody back, there's no better option for 3B at this time, and all of his potential value to the team now and in the future depends on them sticking with him. If he keeps playing the way he has, he should continue to get full-time at 3B for the balance of this year at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defense is just ok, imo. Don't like his hitting at all. If/when he does get on, his base running is horrible imo. He just doesn't seem to have good baseball instincts.

Yes, having watched him at A ball a few times his baseball instincts are a bit rough....klunky footwork, slings the ball awkwardly, swings at bad pitches. As long as his defense can be OK his penchant for swings and misses can be overcome at the plate by modest improvements in pitch recognition/discipline rather than a leap of performance IMHO.

Several hitting skills that he has are line-drive hitting and oppo power, something to build on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no talent scout, but every scout whose opinion I have ever seen or read on Nick says basically "This kid will be a great MLB hitter." So, that's enough for me to think he has skills that we just haven't seen yet at the plate. He probably would have spent last year at Toledo had we had a third baseman, but we didn't, so he came up. I'm giving him through next year as well to see what kind of improvements he makes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we manage to avoid trading machado this year, he could put some pressure on nick in 2016.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm no talent scout, but every scout whose opinion I have ever seen or read on Nick says basically "This kid will be a great MLB hitter." So, that's enough for me to think he has skills that we just haven't seen yet at the plate. He probably would have spent last year at Toledo had we had a third baseman, but we didn't, so he came up. I'm giving him through next year as well to see what kind of improvements he makes.

There is no question he has an elite skillset as a hitter, but pitch recognition is something that can never be projected with certainty until a guy actual faces the best breaking ball pitchers in the world on a daily basis. So both things can be true, the scouting reports can be great, he could still fall short of them. Time will tell.

His last AB was kind of a microcosm. He swung pitch that he could not have reached with a 2x4x8, but then shortened up and served another outside breaking ball to the opposite field for a hit.

I just hope he doesn't turn out to be an Inge - another player who had real talent but who always struggled to figure out MLB pitching. He was always looking for what they weren't throwing. You always thought he could do more, for all but year or two of his career he really just couldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hope he doesn't turn out to be an Inge - another player who had real talent but who always struggled to figure out MLB pitching. He was always looking for what they weren't throwing. You always thought he could do more, for all but year or two of his career he really just couldn't.

Inge had better skills as an all around player than Castellanos, but I don't think he was supposed to have the hitting skills that Castellanos supposedly has. I think Inge actually turned out about as expected except he became a 3B rather than a catcher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, lets see here

FIRST BASE - Best hitter in baseball, underrated defender

SECOND BASE - Top third in the AL, one of the best defenders and a plus hitter

SHORTSTOP - If his hitting is even close to what it's been so far, the Tigers have an elite SS here

CATCHER - Two outstanding defensive players, one of them a rookie showing real offensive potential

RIGHT FIELD - Average player

CENTER FIELD - Young player with a ton of upside that creates havoc when hot and an excellent defender

LEFT FIELD - An average player with flashes of WOW

DESIGNATED HITTER - When healthy one of the best pure hitters in the American League.

So our third baseman isn't an All Star. With the other 8 positions being average to above average, we can let him develop. He's young. Give him time. It's frustrating but I think when it clicks, it's gonna be great. There are teams out there with 2 or 3 guys hitting under .200. Houston has 3 guys hitting under .205 in their starting lineup and they are in first place. The only way Nick's going to get better is to play and keep playing. His defense and footwork in the field has improved a lot, it shows he's capable of being coached. He'll need to be the regular third baseman for another couple of years. Besides, who else is there in the organization...Romine? Perez?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Inge had better skills as an all around player than Castellanos, but I don't think he was supposed to have the hitting skills that Castellanos supposedly has. I think Inge actually turned out about as expected except he became a 3B rather than a catcher.

Inge's career is fascinating and he's one of my favorite former players, mostly due to how his career progressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, lets see here

FIRST BASE - Best hitter in baseball, underrated defender

SECOND BASE - Top third in the AL, one of the best defenders and a plus hitter

SHORTSTOP - If his hitting is even close to what it's been so far, the Tigers have an elite SS here

CATCHER - Two outstanding defensive players, one of them a rookie showing real offensive potential

RIGHT FIELD - Average player

CENTER FIELD - Young player with a ton of upside that creates havoc when hot and an excellent defender

LEFT FIELD - An average player with flashes of WOW

DESIGNATED HITTER - When healthy one of the best pure hitters in the American League.

So our third baseman isn't an All Star. With the other 8 positions being average to above average, we can let him develop. He's young. Give him time. It's frustrating but I think when it clicks, it's gonna be great. There are teams out there with 2 or 3 guys hitting under .200. Houston has 3 guys hitting under .205 in their starting lineup and they are in first place. The only way Nick's going to get better is to play and keep playing. His defense and footwork in the field has improved a lot, it shows he's capable of being coached. He'll need to be the regular third baseman for another couple of years. Besides, who else is there in the organization...Romine? Perez?

Machado

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All of this year, and a lot of next.

Yeah, I'd give him this year, next, and probably even the first half of 2017. The guy's only 23, and even now, he's just bad--but not horrible--and he plays a position that's hard to fill in the post-steroid era. As long as we're paying him close to the league minimum, he's probably okay to have on the roster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, I'd give him this year, next, and probably even the first half of 2017. The guy's only 23, and even now, he's just bad--but not horrible--and he plays a position that's hard to fill in the post-steroid era. As long as we're paying him close to the league minimum, he's probably okay to have on the roster.

I think if he is still ****** after 2016, it might be wise to move on to a different option. But that depends on the outlook of the team at that point. We could be in a re-tooling year or something after 2016 so at that point it would make sense to stay the course if there is any hope left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we manage to avoid trading machado this year, he could put some pressure on nick in 2016.

I don't think Machado has a high enough offensive ceiling to really put any pressure on any of our starters. But I do think he would make a great replacement for Romine--a much better super-utility guy.

Personally, I'd rather hang on to Machado. His defense is supposedly superior, behind only Iglesias in the whole system. I don't think this team is going to need much at the trading deadline unless additional people go on the DL. Farmer is showing that he's ready pretty much right now, and we'll have Verlander back. That would make Farmer our #6, Lobstein our #7, and probably Wilson as our #8. Our offense is fine. We might need another BP arm, or a better LH with some pop off the bench, but I'd rather just wing it. We need to focus on staying younger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Inge's career is fascinating and he's one of my favorite former players, mostly due to how his career progressed.

I agree he had a very interesting career and the bipolar reaction from fans was also fun at times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, I get the sense that Machado is being showcased as trade bait right now. Which I don't agree with. This team needs some depth at MI with Iglesias's legs being a potential issue, and Kinsler getting older.

I feel like Dixon might be one of those defense-first SS that all of a sudden figures out hitting more than anyone expected, kind of like Andrelton Simmons or Alicedes Escobar--except not quite as good. But good enough to be our super-utility guy and get around 300-400 AB per year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree he had a very interesting career and the bipolar reaction from fans was also fun at times.

Inge was a pretty solid offensive player for 3 straight years. When you add his defense to that, he was a pretty valuable piece for a while. 108 wRC+ in 2004 ain't to shabby, and neither was the 100 and 97 in the years after that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For 23 year old 3rd basemen Nick ranks among the tops in the majors I am sure.

I would not give up on him. He hit over .400 at Lakeland. He is coming rather slowly call it the sophomore slimp. I think he will learn to rake, hopefully when the weather warms up like he is used to in Florida.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He has the physical tools, and I like that he has figured out how to use opposite-field power. But there's two holes in his game: 1) when he does pull the ball, it's on the ground too much...he has to figure out how to pull it with authority, otherwise he's going to keep getting busted inside with fastballs--followed by outside sliders. And 2) he really has to learn how to recognize the low/outside slider. A lot of MLB hitters have trouble with that pitch--it's the best pitch in baseball if the pitcher doesn't accidentally hang it. But Nick is particularly bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Inge was a pretty solid offensive player for 3 straight years. When you add his defense to that, he was a pretty valuable piece for a while. 108 wRC+ in 2004 ain't to shabby, and neither was the 100 and 97 in the years after that.

I didn't mean to imply that Inge was a bad player in general, only that as a hitter he was a constant tease to be better. For most of his career he absolutely mashed LHP, (and had he had the good fortune to play on a team with more left handed hitters and had the chance to face more LHP on a regular basis , his career numbers would probably be better - but as we all know, the Tigers have been short LH hitters pretty much since the league was founded...) but against RHP he was continually flummoxed; taking 1st pitch fastballs for strikes and then looking for 0-1 fastballs and whiffing on the breaking ball away. That recognition issue was a recurrent refrain in his career and the thing that limited him as a hitter as much as any other single thing. That recognition problem is the only parallel I was trying to draw to where Nick is now - as noted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, lets see here

FIRST BASE - Best hitter in baseball, underrated defender

SECOND BASE - Top third in the AL, one of the best defenders and a plus hitter

SHORTSTOP - If his hitting is even close to what it's been so far, the Tigers have an elite SS here

CATCHER - Two outstanding defensive players, one of them a rookie showing real offensive potential

RIGHT FIELD - Average player

CENTER FIELD - Young player with a ton of upside that creates havoc when hot and an excellent defender

LEFT FIELD - An average player with flashes of WOW

DESIGNATED HITTER - When healthy one of the best pure hitters in the American League.

So our third baseman isn't an All Star. With the other 8 positions being average to above average, we can let him develop. He's young. Give him time. It's frustrating but I think when it clicks, it's gonna be great. There are teams out there with 2 or 3 guys hitting under .200. Houston has 3 guys hitting under .205 in their starting lineup and they are in first place. The only way Nick's going to get better is to play and keep playing. His defense and footwork in the field has improved a lot, it shows he's capable of being coached. He'll need to be the regular third baseman for another couple of years. Besides, who else is there in the organization...Romine? Perez?

Yeah - I'm not worried about our 8 on the field at all. That is why I think JV is still the fulcrum for this season. Strange as it is to say it after the last 6 years. but the inconsistency of the starting pitching is where this team has the most room to get better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but against RHP he was continually flummoxed; taking 1st pitch fastballs for strikes and then looking for 0-1 fastballs and whiffing on the breaking ball away. That recognition issue was a recurrent refrain in his career and the thing that limited him as a hitter as much as any other single thing. That recognition problem is the only parallel I was trying to draw to where Nick is now - as noted.

Well, in that sense, I agree. Both Nick and JD are very easy to get out if you have a RHP that can locate a slider down and away. Cespedes to some extent, too, although he just has a bit more natural talent than the guys above. Show them an inside fastball, and then it's just a barrage of sliders away, and then you get K, K, .... well no need to type another...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree he had a very interesting career and the bipolar reaction from fans was also fun at times.

I still it would have been very interesting to see how his career may have progressed if he had been able to be full time super-sub player. 2004 was his best year offensively except for power (but still his career best OPS). And to have a guy on the bench who can could step into any position on the field and be at least an average defender and at least be an average hitter... that would be an amazing tool to have.

Obviously there no telling if his offensive would have maintained the level it did in 2004 if he was a super-sub player, but if it had... that would be a very interesting player to have. Sort of an "anti-DH" player: Pencil the 2004-Inge in at spot 7 or 8 or 9 in the lineup, and then his position just rotates around the field. First base, Second base, SS, etc. Which ever position he plays in the field, that guy is the DH for that day giving each starter a regular 1/2 day off without any drop off in offense and not a significant (if any) drop off in defense.

Now, this is an "Utopian" situation of course with lots of problems: 1.) Not everyone can DH successfully... some players can't handle not being in the field. 2.) Injuries to starts would likely press an player like this into a start roll, at least temporarily. 3.) Perhaps most importantly: A player like this isn't viewed as being of the same caliber as a starter. This means most players would not accept a role like this very willingly.

Still... it's an interesting idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brandon Inge became a much more effective player than the majority -> vast majority of guys who made it to the show, all of whom are all phenomenal baseball players. Well maybe not Eddie Gaedel.

He quite possibly had the 2nd best career at 3rd base in a Tiger uniform (behind George Kell).

I didn't care for the Brandon Inge show in general and I found his popularity among the segment of his fans to be nauseating at times, but I would say was a really good player who exceeded expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Machado

Nah, to me Machado is destined to be a Ramon Santiago. Nothing wrong with that. Teams need a multi-positional infielder and he could have a long career doing that. But I don't see him as an everyday third baseman. Unless he wants to change his name to Manny.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much longer do we wait for Machado? Two games, and only one hit. I don't know. Not too impressive. Maybe we give him through this series, and then cut him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How much longer do we wait for Machado? Two games, and only one hit. I don't know. Not too impressive. Maybe we give him through this series, and then cut him?

This made me laugh. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×