Jump to content

RedRamage

How much longer do we wait for Castellanos?

Recommended Posts

I was very high on Castellanos for a long time. I really thought he had solid potential to plug the 3rd base hole for the Tigers for a while. But he's hitting only .237 without great power and not a great OBP. Plus his defense isn't stellar either.

Compared to 3B's in the Majors with 100+ ABs, Nick ranks:

AVG: 23rd

OBP: 24th

SLG: 22nd

And again, this is with what appears to be sub-average defense. (I don't think Castellanos is horrible defensively, but he isn't great either.)

How much longer do wait to see if he gets it together? Granted, he's still young... only 23. But I don't see signing of improvement really. Am I giving up too soon? Is there still time for him to develop into an above average third baseman in the majors?

Granted, we have a super-small sample size from Romine this year, but his offense right now, if it was over more than 100 ABs, would put him 1st in AVG, 1st in OBP, and ... okay, his SLG sucks, but still... even with a 26th best SLG he'd still rank 12th in OPS... 12 spots ahead of Castellanos. And he's got plus defense.

Okay, reality check here: I'm not arguing that Romine is or will end up being a better hitter in his career than Castellanos. I am arguing that at least right now (with a very small sample size), Romine is providing more offense and more defense than Castellanos. And when we're struggling mightily to get the offense going, why not using Romine more? At least once or twice a week until he shows his offensive numbers are a mirage.

On a side note, other than the the two year "Miggy at 3rd" experiment, when was the last time the Tigers had a 3rd baseman who was really good? A player that most other teams would have gladly taken to replace their guy at the hot corner? I think you have to go back to 2000 when Dean Palmer put up 29 homers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick has some of the worst pitch recognition ive ever seen. Basically like Brandon Inge bad, just wildly flailing at balls not even close to the strike zone. So until he figures that out, he's not going to be much of a hitter. If he finishes this year how he's started it, i imagine next year is his make or break year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long you gonna wait for Ian Kinsler? He hasn't had a hit in his last 20 or so at bats..... geez. Nick is fine. The Tigers have 8 other guys in their batting order that have underperformed during this season so far at various times. Really? 1 run in the last 18 innngs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that Nick has been very disappointing so far this season. Plate discipline issues continue to hold him back.

That said, since he's shown to be a league average 3B defensively so far this season, he gets at least until the end of next season. Additional investments should go to other areas first.

If they want to spot start Romine here and there that's fine, but Romine is not any more of an everyday player than Ramon Santiago was. He can still be valuable, but he's not starter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our 23 y.o. third baseman is struggling with the stick right now, no doubt. He's tied for the league lead in games played at 3B in the AL and he could probably use a game or two off to work out some kinks or maybe just relax.

He's also tied with Beltre for third with DPs turned and he is third in total zone runs at his position. While nobody confuses Nick with Beltre with the leather, the guy has improved on defense quite a bit. But nobody wants to talk about his improved defense when they think he should OPS .800.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very pleased with Castellanos' defense so far. He is much improved. I'm disappointed with lack of improvement in his hitting, but it's way too early to give up on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's... really young and has made some serious improvements in his defense. I think you have to reward him for that effort and continue to hope he improves offensively.

At least the rest of this season, possibly next year as well. It really depends on what the other options are to play third base, and how high up the totem pole the position is in relative terms of need when the team is making moves at the deadline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm very pleased with Castellanos' defense so far. He is much improved. I'm disappointed with lack of improvement in his hitting, but it's way too early to give up on him.

It's all about that slider down and away. Some days he seems to see it better, or maybe he is able to pick up the spin from some pitchers and not others, but unfortunately you see a lot of RHH that never do figure that pitch out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note, other than the the two year "Miggy at 3rd" experiment, when was the last time the Tigers had a 3rd baseman who was really good? A player that most other teams would have gladly taken to replace their guy at the hot corner? I think you have to go back to 2000 when Dean Palmer put up 29 homers.

Dean Palmer was not much. His highest WAR as A Tiger was 1.7. Brandon Inge beat that six times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm disappointed in his offensive production as well, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. If pushed for a time limit, I'd say at least the rest of this year before I think about looking for a replacement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How long you gonna wait for Ian Kinsler? He hasn't had a hit in his last 20 or so at bats..... geez. Nick is fine. The Tigers have 8 other guys in their batting order that have underperformed during this season so far at various times. Really? 1 run in the last 18 innngs?

Not even close to an valid comparison roarin'. Kinsler is an established major league player with a career OPS .791 who is a plus defender and going through a 20 AB slump.

Castellanos doesn't have even 1.5 seasons in the Majors, a career OPS more than 100 points lower than Kinsler (.689) and is a minus defender going through a 46-game slump.

If that isn't the definition of apples to oranges, I don't know what is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dean Palmer was not much. His highest WAR as A Tiger was 1.7. Brandon Inge beat that six times.

False, Inge had zero good seasons ever. Read this forum for proof

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's all about that slider down and away. Some days he seems to see it better, or maybe he is able to pick up the spin from some pitchers and not others, but unfortunately you see a lot of RHH that never do figure that pitch out.

He's comparable to JD, in that I think they try to sit in between the FB and SL to hit both. With JD, when he's successful at both, he's all world. When he's successful at neither, he's 0-25.

Cespedes on the other hand seems to sit fastball 95% of the time, and then maybe 5% guess at a breaking pitch or crush a hanger. I think this is a more consistent approach, but yields a lower ceiling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His babip is down from last year, and he's hitting fewer line drives. He has yet to make any sort of leap offensively, but his defense has improved.

I think he still needs another season before its time to start wondering if it will ever click for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not even close to an valid comparison roarin'. Kinsler is an established major league player with a career OPS .791 who is a plus defender and going through a 20 AB slump.

Castellanos doesn't have even 1.5 seasons in the Majors, a career OPS more than 100 points lower than Kinsler (.689) and is a minus defender going through a 46-game slump.

If that isn't the definition of apples to oranges, I don't know what is.

You missed my point. I wasn't comparing Kinsler to Castellanos. My point was that during the season ALL of the Tiger hitters have had bad stretches. My point was...are you gonna give up on all of them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You missed my point. I wasn't comparing Kinsler to Castellanos. My point was that during the season ALL of the Tiger hitters have had bad stretches. My point was...are you gonna give up on all of them?

Okay, but again, there are some key differences:

1.) Track record: Kinsler's well established. Yes, it's entirely possible he's just pushed over the edge and this 20 AB slump is the beginning of the end and he'll never be a solid performer again, but I suspect 99% of people would say it's just a slump. Nick is just coming into the league and has now struggled for about 1/3 of his time in the majors, and even the 2/3 when he wasn't as bad as his numbers are right now he was still not as good as Kinsler is.

2.) Time: 20 ABs is a slump. 169 ABs is much more than just a slump. If Kinsler was hitting just .237 through 46 games everyone would be wondering what's going on and if there was a hidden injury or what. Now, to be fair, most would not be calling for the Tigers to just 'give up' on him, but that points back to #1: Track Record. Kinsler has shown he can play and play well at the ML level. Castellanos has not.

For the record, I never said we should give up... just positing the question: When should we start considering it? To be fair, anyone who asks as question like that if obviously wondering if the time to give up is soon (or now), so it's fair to assume I was leaning that way. But still, I'm wondering how long do we keep waiting?

Hopefully Nick turns things around soon and makes it a non-issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tigers have had a tendency to call guys up as soon as they have shown any decent ability to perform at aaa. Castellanos didn't light the world on fire his first year in Toledo, and then he made the team almost by default last year.

It's not necessarily a bad strategy. But it does make me discount his rookie year numbers as there wasn't much to suggest he was actually ready to be a good MLB player last year.

He just turned 23 in March.

That's another reason I wasn't in a hurry to make McCann the backup. He had a good season in Toledo, but it wasn't exactly great. I would prefer to wait and see a prospect put up an 850-900 ops in aaa before promoting him, but team needs often outweigh that luxury. We had that luxury with McCann. We didn't with nick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Until someone is dumb enough to trade for him
This. As Robert Frost said, "Take care to sell your horse before he dies. The art of life is passing losses on."

In all honesty I think he's improved, but I think it's likely his ceiling is not as high as we had hoped. If they're happy with an - eventually - middling third baseman, fine. If not, then do something in another year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defense is just ok, imo. Don't like his hitting at all. If/when he does get on, his base running is horrible imo. He just doesn't seem to have good baseball instincts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×