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2015 Pistons Off-Season

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we overpaid for this undervalued player so this is nothing to be so proud of him for.

Overpaid, really?

Look at the landscape. These contracts just don't matter, they are pennies on the dollar. Overpaid didn't exist this off-season, for any team.

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I don't think it was necessarily a bad offseason cause I think SVG did what he could but I have to admit I am a bit disappointed in it. Obviously I didn't expect a marquee free agent to sign here but with all the money we had available I was expecting either to sign a Danny Green/Carroll type and or use that space to trade for somebody that could make an impact. Instead we used the space on Ilyasova, Baynes and the lesser Morris. Nothing to write home about at all.

For all the attention that Jackson's contract received, Carrroll and Green big money for two role players, and Detroit would have had to have paid even more.

Green had his "breakout" season his third year in the L, averaging 9.1 PTS/1.3 AST/0.9 STL 43.6% 3pt and 44.2% fg% in 23.1 MIN. Since then, he's only shown modest progression and he's arguably sniffed his ceiling. He's a nice guy to have around, but he's not a real SF. We already have a guy who projects similar to him in KCP, who who is under team control for the next two years for a TOTAL of roughly $6.5M. Green signed at a discounted rate of 4/$40 for SA and was projected to make around 4/$50ish on the open market, which means Detroit has to go 4/$60ish. KCP will be 22 for about half the season, and he put up 12.7 PTS/1.3 AST/1.1 STL 34.5% 3pt and 40.1% FG in 31.5 MIN. It is reasonable to expect KCP to post similar numbers per 100 POS this season to Green as a 3rd-year player.

So in a sense, we didn't have to go out and pay the 27-year-old Green $14M per year because we already had the younger version of him in KCP.

Now, let's look at Carroll. He's one of the best SF defenders in the L and he shot career-high 39.5% from 3pt last season and averaged a career-high 12.6 PTS in 31.3 MIN. He's an average rebounder for a wing, converts on a nice clip of his 2pt attempts but is not good at getting his own shot due to middling ball handling ability. Last year was just the second year he averaged more than 20 MIN per game, but in each of those years he eclipsed 30 MIN. He turns 29 next week, so it isn't unfair to say he's reached his ceiling--and he's getting a 4/$60 contract. $15M per year for the next four years. Marcus Morris will make $5M per year over the next four years, he put up 10.4 PTS and shot 35.8% 3pt (slightly below career average), while rebounding at a 4.8 clip over a modest 25.2 MIN. As a combo forward, that's fairly average. He isn't the defender Carroll is, but he can guard bigger forwards when needed. He is also going to perhaps be the best post player on the team if Baynes isn't. Is Carroll three-times the player Morris is? Do you want to pay Carroll MORE than $15 per year? That's what it would have taken to get him here. No thanks.

But that's not really it. What it really comes down to is the drafting of Stanimal (3/$7.74M), who has shown all the qualities we could really want in a starting-quality NBA SF. This is a guy, who at 19, already has Carroll's man-strength and then some. He's a much better ball handler than Carroll, a good shooter off the bounce and IMO a better rebounder. Will he be the same quality of defender? Well, I think it will be close. Will he be able to shoot in the mid-30's over the next few years like Carroll likely will? It sure isn't far-fetched--Carroll's 36.4% 3pt shooting his senior year was a drastic improvement from his first three years where he was roughly 20%. Stanimal shot 37.1% as a freshman and he shot 41.7% in the way-too-small sample size of the Summer League. Watch tape of each play, and then tell me which one you want starting at SF for most of the next three or four years.

When healthy, Ilyasova is a quality stretch 4. This is a guy who shot roughly 13 pts/8 REB and 45% from 3pt in 27.6 MIN in back-to-back years where he played 133 games. He'll be 28 the entire regular season, he's making $8Mish and we get him back at the same price next year if we want him. Even if we only get 60 games out of him this year he's a solid deal. MIL essentially dumped him to be able to afford Monroe, who didn't fit here anymore and prolly didn't even want to be here (could you blame him after all those turbulent years?).

Blake is hard to get excited about after being spoiled by a half-season by DJ as the backup pg, but he's solid enough to be insurance in case Dinwiddie's summer depression turns into a full-blown sophomore slump. But he's the right price, he can shoot and he's not going to lose ballgames for you.

This is the best Pistons team, potentially, that we've seen since 2008--why not let yourself get a little excited? All of these pieces were designed to fit around Jackson and Drummond, or at the very least, designed to be respectable until a trade for better personnel becomes available. SVG and his staff deserve some real credit for this summer, as I'm sure it was tempting to go after a black hole like Tobias Harris for a max deal. I'm so glad he didn't.

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1) Didn't overpay in free agency (see, Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Josh Smith).

2) Landed a perfect, undervalued backup for Drummond (Baynes shoots 86% free throws, which allows SVG to sub out Drummonds late in games).

3) Acquired a starting-level PF in Morris for virtually nothing.

4) Acquired a veteran SF/PF in Granger for virtually nothing.

5) Acquired a veteran backup PG in Blake for virtually nothing.

6) Acquired a SG with an incredibly high ceiling (Bullock) for virtually nothing.

7) Drafted the top-rated player in the Summer League (Johnson), who looks like a potential steal.

8) Re-signed Tolliver and Anthony for frontcourt depth.

9) Retained salary-cap flexibility for the future.

10) Traded for a starting PF (Ilyasova) who fits his system much better than Monroe (and again, giving up hardly anything in the deal).

Yeah, I'd call that a heck of an off-season.

1) This I would agree with. Best move of the offseason IMO. Well, maybe next to taking Johnson.

2) Overpaid grossly for him. Decent player though. Could be a solid contract now that he'll be given some more minutes.

3) Morris was a cap dump and is a significant downgrade from Monroe. Could add some needed grit though.

4) Granger will likely be waived before the season starts. He's done

5) Meh. Decent insurace just in case Jennings isn't ready. Nothing more

6) Bullock? Who? Incredibly high ceiling? Somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I know who Bullock is but I don't see this incredibly high ceiling that you see.

7) I love Johnson, been pumping his tires for almost a year now so I agree with you here.

8) I'm glad that they kept these two but these are the type of moves that every team make.

9) This kind of ties in with #1 so I agree that it's a positive but they need to make good use of the space to make it a great move.

10) Decent move but like Morris, was pretty much a cap dump. Is he much better than Jerekbo/Singler? Maybe, better shooter at least but poor defensively.

I think it was a pretty solid offseason and there is a lot of room for growth with this team but I think calling it a heck of an offseason is a real stretch IMO. Most of these moves were pretty generic.

Edited by NYLion

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2) Overpaid grossly for him. Decent player though. Could be a solid contract now that he'll be given some more minutes.

.

You can keep saying it, and it will keep being false.

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10) Decent move but like Morris, was pretty much a cap dump. Is he much better than Jerekbo/Singler? Maybe, better shooter at least but poor defensively.

Man, you have lost it. Seriously, asking if Ilyasova is better than Jerebko or Singler?

I feel like only 3 people on this board have seen Ilyasova play.

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I don't know how good we will be, but this is the positive to me.

- The players we have, at least at their best, fit into SVG's system very well.

- We have a decent amount of youth and upside and I think we clearly have a threesome we view as a core with championship potential. Doesn't mean it will happen, but I have no problem saying that type of upside is there.

- We have a lot of flexibility going forward with a lot of cap space, a large non - guaranteed deal, no missing first rounders going forward and a lot of moveable pieces.

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You can keep saying it, and it will keep being false.

$7M/yr for a 6 ppg 4 rpg rebound player. SVG is banking on the hope that he continues to improve with extended playing time but thus far, he's done nothing to earn a contract that rich.

I'm fine with the addition but lets not act like this was market value. Better than giving franchise money to Carroll though.

Ilyasova is better than the Singler/Jerekbo combo but I don't see it as anything to get all rah rah about.

Again, I'm not hating on the Pistons offseason as I'm content with it and I really like the Jackson/Johnson/Drummond core going forward. I just don't see it as a heck of an offseason.

TP, I think you should audition for that WWE tag team group New Day. Preach that positivity brother. :wink:

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TP, I think you should audition for that WWE tag team group New Day. Preach that positivity brother. :wink:

Funny enough, my WWE watching has taken on a sort of revival. Of course back in the stone cold steve austin days everyone was watching. I was obsessed. About 2 months ago me and buddy got hammered, and wrestling was on. We watched 4 straight hours and then 3 more you tube hours of old matches. I think I am hooked again.

I am looking forward to summerslam. Undertaker and Lesnar...yessir.

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Man, you have lost it. Seriously, asking if Ilyasova is better than Jerebko or Singler?

I feel like only 3 people on this board have seen Ilyasova play.

Considering he played in Milwaukee and was injured half the time I think only 3 people on Earth have seen him play. :)

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Funny enough, my WWE watching has taken on a sort of revival. Of course back in the stone cold steve austin days everyone was watching. I was obsessed. About 2 months ago me and buddy got hammered, and wrestling was on. We watched 4 straight hours and then 3 more you tube hours of old matches. I think I am hooked again.

I am looking forward to summerslam. Undertaker and Lesnar...yessir.

Ha, same here. I was a huge fan of The Attitude Era, me and my friends even started a federation called JWF(Junior Wrestling Federation) which were some funny times seeing us act like jackasses on camera with commentating, championship belts and the whole nine yards. I even watched some of The Ruthless Agression era which lasted until 2006 then tuned out for about 8 years or so after WWE got all PG and just started watching again last year when the news came out that Undertaker lost at Wrestlemania. Like you, I started watching old youtube clips and got all nostalgic (man, the storylines were amazing back then).

It clearly lacks the quality that it used to have but there are some fun newcomers that are making it interesting (NXT members) and I can't get enough of Lesnar taking fools to Suplex City. There have also been some amazing matches as of late, mainly the John Cena U.S. Open matches so I'm sort of hooked again.

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Man, you have lost it. Seriously, asking if Ilyasova is better than Jerebko or Singler?

I feel like only 3 people on this board have seen Ilyasova play.

He was talking about Morris, but I have to wonder if you have seen Ilyasova play (when he's not hurt of course).

He's a twig, won't add much defensively, doesn't block shots, doesn't rebound much, when he hits his shot he's useful when not he's invisable, and again not to mention he is fragile. He's not the 2010 23-year old Ilyasova who looked like a potential stud, he's the 28 year old injury prone weak Ilyasova. I guess we can hope he can stay healthy and on the floor and improves, but I think after 4-5 years of injuries that isn't likely. He's a placeholder until they can get someone else.

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The Pistons would be improved if they added no one besides the Pick, I would have preferred to have kept Monroe over what they got in return, but that ship has sailed.

A year under SVG, without Smith would have improved them, we can see with his system he can make bums look serviceable. The trick with him is to make sure his system can get you to a championship, that has yet to be seen.

To me, what will determine whether this is a 35 win team or 45 win team, will be Drummond's offensive improvement and KCP's improvement, I'm expecting him to make a big jump, it seems the third year is make or break for shooting guards, suddenly their percentages jump, and the Pistons as constructed desperately need points from the 2, I don't expect much from the 3 this year.

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Ha, same here. I was a huge fan of The Attitude Era, me and my friends even started a federation called JWF(Junior Wrestling Federation) which were some funny times seeing us act like jackasses on camera with commentating, championship belts and the whole nine yards. I even watched some of The Ruthless Agression era which lasted until 2006 then tuned out for about 8 years or so after WWE got all PG and just started watching again last year when the news came out that Undertaker lost at Wrestlemania. Like you, I started watching old youtube clips and got all nostalgic (man, the storylines were amazing back then).

It clearly lacks the quality that it used to have but there are some fun newcomers that are making it interesting (NXT members) and I can't get enough of Lesnar taking fools to Suplex City. There have also been some amazing matches as of late, mainly the John Cena U.S. Open matches so I'm sort of hooked again.

I can't get over the Mankind/Undertaker hell in a cell match. Those drops from the top of the cage had to hurt like hell. You could tell mick was out of it.

We were watching early 90's wrestling, macho man was commentating, vince was the main broadcaster. I very much enjoy the big boss man takes and his fued with Nails. I don't know why, but that one stuck with me. Those old promo cuts were so corny they were great.

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He was talking about Morris, but I have to wonder if you have seen Ilyasova play (when he's not hurt of course).

He's a twig, won't add much defensively, doesn't block shots, doesn't rebound much, when he hits his shot he's useful when not he's invisable, and again not to mention he is fragile. He's not the 2010 23-year old Ilyasova who looked like a potential stud, he's the 28 year old injury prone weak Ilyasova. I guess we can hope he can stay healthy and on the floor and improves, but I think after 4-5 years of injuries that isn't likely. He's a placeholder until they can get someone else.

Here's the thing: SVG isn't relying on Ersan to be his 2010 self. This has largely gone unsaid here, but in Morris/Ersan and SJ/Tolliver the Pistons have a group of four forwards capable of shooting in the mid-to-high 30% range from 3pt territory. As a group they are average rebounders, and no, they won't block a lot of shots. What they will do is defend the perimeter and get more steals than blocks. On offense, they will be setting up for threes while RJ/AD run pick-and-roll. SJ will handle the ball a little, especially when he's with the second unit.

However, it would be no great shock if Ersan did experience a bump in his offensive numbers due to playing with a decent distributing PG. Brandon Knight isn't exactly a guy you want to rely upon to get you the rock in great positions to score.

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1) 3) Acquired a starting-level PF in Morris for virtually nothing.
This was another thing I forgot to mention. Who says he's a "starting-level" PF? Just because he's going to start for us(at SF btw) doesn't making him any more "starting-level" then it made Singler when he was the starter.
To me, what will determine whether this is a 35 win team or 45 win team, will be Drummond's offensive improvement and KCP's improvement, I'm expecting him to make a big jump, it seems the third year is make or break for shooting guards, suddenly their percentages jump, and the Pistons as constructed desperately need points from the 2, I don't expect much from the 3 this year.

Personally, I'm more interested in seeing Drummond improve on the defensive end. He becomes a plus defender and this team is dramatically better. KCP just needs to find his role as a second or 3rd option, be more consistent, and above all end the 5-20 shooting games. He should never take 20 shots unless A)he's really hot B)we are down by 20 in the 4th or C) everyone else is injured.

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However, it would be no great shock if Ersan did experience a bump in his offensive numbers due to playing with a decent distributing PG. Brandon Knight isn't exactly a guy you want to rely upon to get you the rock in great positions to score.
No clue if it's true or not, but it is interesting to see that his production after the All-Star Break improved compared to his first half, (coincidentally?) after bring MCW in and moving Knight. That said, I think Reggie is closer to Knight than MCW in terms of style of play but still. Edited by DaBishop

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No clue if it's true or not, but it is interesting to see that his production after the All-Star Break improved compared to his first half, (coincidentally?) after bring MCW in and moving Knight. That said, I think Reggie is closer to Knight than MCW in terms of style of play but still.

Knight, who had four double-digit assist games in Brew Town, hasn't even averaged a 2:1 A/TO ratio for his career and he didn't even come close in MIL. Averaging like 5.2 AST getting 33 MIN per night, and it wasn't like they had an awesome secondary facilitator there. When Jennings/Monta shared the backcourt, they may have shot a ton but at least they could combine for like 12 AST per night. And while he wasn't a world beater, Udrih was a decent playmaker off the bench when Ersan was at his best. Knight, MCW and Sessions was a definite downgrade from Jennings/Monta in every way for Ersan. Giannis is developing as a secondary facilitator, and when it is all said and done he could become even more than that.

Anyways, RJ represents a significant upgrade as a playmaking PG from anyone Ersan has played with once BJ left town--and is a better playmaker than BJ was when BJ was a Buck. I like Ersan's chances of having a nice "comeback" year this year, and I would like him even more if he was our 6th man. Who knows, he may just be by the AS break.

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The difference i see is a young group of guys with prove it chips on thier shoulders and a toughness about them. I see a workmanlike type team with toughness. I hope it turns into wins.

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...Anyways, RJ represents a significant upgrade as a playmaking PG from anyone Ersan has played with once BJ left town--and is a better playmaker than BJ was when BJ was a Buck. I like Ersan's chances of having a nice "comeback" year this year, and I would like him even more if he was our 6th man. Who knows, he may just be by the AS break.

And to be more specific... RJ was the #1 Pick-n-Roll PG in the NBA last year. Exactly what SVG needs to run his offense. And not just to Drummond's or RJ's benefit either. RJ was the #1 point producer out of PnR passes as well, meaning he made good passes out of the PnR that got the perimeter players good shot opportunities, and they connected. Ersan is going to get a boatload of easy passes coming out of the PnR in which he'll have wide open 3 attempts (as the D collapses on RJ and/or Drummond...).

On your second point: I think that's where SVG is going to concentrate next: swinging some kind of deal to bring in a better long-term PF than Ersan, but: 1 step at a time...

BTW:

The difference i see is a young group of guys with prove it chips on thier shoulders and a toughness about them. I see a workmanlike type team with toughness. I hope it turns into wins.

I agree with this in a big way. SVG specifically looked for some toughness to bring in. Stanimal, Baynes, Ersan & Morris bring that. And I love it! Some more Nasty Bad Boys attitude I think, can only help this team! Errr, get the wins I mean...

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Just a heads up for anyone interested, Zach Lowe had SVG on his podcast today. It was nice and long and definitely worth a listen.

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I know the national media is pretty down on SVG and the off season, but a lot of the stats they point to in the Detroit biased articles are pretty promising. It's nice to have some optimism based on stats for once and not just hope or faith.

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No clue if it's true or not, but it is interesting to see that his production after the All-Star Break improved compared to his first half, (coincidentally?) after bring MCW in and moving Knight. That said, I think Reggie is closer to Knight than MCW in terms of style of play but still.

lol at the RJ and Knight comparison. I've heard it all.

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Just a heads up for anyone interested, Zach Lowe had SVG on his podcast today. It was nice and long and definitely worth a listen.
listened to this today. Good stuff. I liked Zach Lowe more when I just read his articles...I get the impression that he's very impressed with himself.

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I can't get over the Mankind/Undertaker hell in a cell match. Those drops from the top of the cage had to hurt like hell. You could tell mick was out of it.

We were watching early 90's wrestling, macho man was commentating, vince was the main broadcaster. I very much enjoy the big boss man takes and his fued with Nails. I don't know why, but that one stuck with me. Those old promo cuts were so corny they were great.

The first Hell in a Cell match...Michaels vs the Undertaker...was a great match. Michaels took a bump from close to the top of the cage and as an added bonus, the match featured the debut of Kane

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