Jump to content

Sydney_Fife

Game 57: Cavs @ Pistons

Recommended Posts


Jackson had a nice game. 22, 8, and 9 is a nice line for a PG. He would have double digit assists if some knuckleheads could hit a few shots.

You can really see how unfamiliar he is with the offense and teammates though. More than a few times he ran the PnR into the same side of the floor where another Pistons player was instead of the other open side, and that brings a third defender into the equation. That stuff will work itself out over time though. He also did a really nice job on Irving.

Right, they have to tread water in the next 10 games, and put on a playoff run the last 15.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unless you were the one who insisted on having Greg Monroe guard Kevin Love, I don't think you're to blame here.

Really, most of those shots Love was taking/making were very deep shots, I think you want most PF's in the league to take, even him, he just was hot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You lose any credibility when you blame his inability to guard Love for the loss. I think scoring 31 points in a half might have a little to do with the loss.

You're going to talk to me about credibility when you tried to tell me Monroe guarded Love well? Love's four 3rd quarter 3s took the wind out of the sails. He was also the best of Cleveland's big three last night. LeBron and Kyrie were both pedestrian by their standards. Reggie did his job on defense. The SFs did the best they could on LeBron and came up with decent final results. And then there's Greg, lost at sea with Love spotting up for yet another open three. Don't talk to me about credibility. Watch the highlights and come back and tell me Greg did a good job. But if you want to keep defending Greg and you would also like to talk about the offense, we can talk about his 4-13 night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kevin Love is a star. He hit his 3's last night. If we don't hedge on LeBron he gets to the paint and either scores or kicks it out. They're near impossible to defend when Love shoots like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not all were pick n rolls though.... And Moose did struggle on the offensive end. Not going to bash him though... Cleveland is very good

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not all were pick n rolls though.... And Moose did struggle on the offensive end. Not going to bash him though... Cleveland is very good

No, not all were pick-and-rolls, you're correct. Thing is though, the two occasions where Monroe was in the game and Love hit threes off of dribble penetration, Monroe was 1) Stuck in no-man's land deciding whether or not to help and 2) Not high enough in between his man, the ball and the basket to the point where he would have enough time to close out. I didn't intend to bash Monroe either, but I felt like I kind of have to if nobody else is even going to recognize that he was a problem last night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apparently the Clippers played a high profile game this/last week and the opposition Hack-a -Shaq'd DeAndre Jordan and they had their panties all in a bunch on ESPN about how the NBA has to change the rules. I say BS, I'd go the other way, I'd make it more difficult for guys with negative shooting skills to stay in the league. Guys that can't shoot make the game painful to watch - including the one of our own. The two minute rule has already been a big enough mistake in the wrong direction.

What's next in sport? My left tackle can't block so I get a 3 count before the defensive end is allowed to rush? We get to stop pitchers from throwing curves to Alex Avila? The Wings get to skip shoot-outs when Howard is in goal? [/rant]

Totally agree. Don't want the Hack-a-Shaq tactic employed against you? Hit your damn free throws. It's that simple. Poor play should never be rewarded by the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fouling repeatedly should be rewarded though.

Fouling repeatedly is not rewarded, though. It gives the other team two uncontested shots from the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

who are these magical PF's that are great at defending a stretch 4? You want to blame the game on Monroe, blame it on his going 4-13. I truly have no clue what you can expect from Moose when Love is hitting 8 of 14 shots from behind the arc. (0-2 inside the paint)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fouling repeatedly is not rewarded, though. It gives the other team two uncontested shots from the line.

It is rewarded insofar as the clock does not run and the fouling team usually gets the ball after the two uncontested shots.

Repeatedly fouling is a strategy pretty regularly employed by teams losing late in the game to improve their chance to win the game. I don't think it an arguable point, to be honest.

If getting 2 FT were clearly beneficial to the offense, teams would only ever intentionally foul a poor free throw shooter in the last minute. But we both know intentionally fouling players isn't limited to just poor shooters.

So do teams foul good FT shooters in the last minute of a close game because coaches are too stupid to know it is poor strategy, or does fouling usually improve a losing team's chance to win or tie a close game, even when the fouled shooter is a good FT shooter?

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be clear, I don't know what the solution to the FT thing is, but teams don't foul at the end of football or hockey or soccer or baseball games (I guess that would be breaking the rules rather than foul).

Seems odd to me. We are ok with running the clock out in football and I don't think anyone would advocate allowing a defensive team to foul the offense to get the ball back in football. But basketball the onus is generally on the offense to hit the FT.

Seems odd to me is all.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're going to talk to me about credibility when you tried to tell me Monroe guarded Love well? Love's four 3rd quarter 3s took the wind out of the sails. He was also the best of Cleveland's big three last night. LeBron and Kyrie were both pedestrian by their standards. Reggie did his job on defense. The SFs did the best they could on LeBron and came up with decent final results. And then there's Greg, lost at sea with Love spotting up for yet another open three. Don't talk to me about credibility. Watch the highlights and come back and tell me Greg did a good job. But if you want to keep defending Greg and you would also like to talk about the offense, we can talk about his 4-13 night.

LeBron and Kyrie were off because of the help Monroe was giving on the PnR. But you wont credit him for that you will just lob bombs at him and blame him for Love going off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
who are these magical PF's that are great at defending a stretch 4? You want to blame the game on Monroe, blame it on his going 4-13. I truly have no clue what you can expect from Moose when Love is hitting 8 of 14 shots from behind the arc. (0-2 inside the paint)

I hate when we agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loved Jackson and KCP last night. Both looked great, played great defense, and gave exactly what we needed them to.

Tay was decent. Showed some energy early and did a decent job on Lebron. Butler was a mess on defense, but nothing new there.

Drummond was himself. Half the time he looked lazy, didn't dunk the ball when he should have, and got lost on defense. The other half of the time he looked like the man-child who has potential to be an all-star. Finished with solid stats as usual, but did they really tell the full story? This has been my struggle with Drummond all year. He either gets tired too quickly or simply doesn't have the drive/motor/desire to give it his all for a full game. Not sure which it is yet. Judging by the way his body seems to be becoming more and more pear shaped rather than getting his butt in the workout room to become more Howard-shaped, I'm hedging towards the latter rather than the former.

As for Monroe, he was an issue for all of the reasons I'm having trouble seeing him as a max player this offseason. He is not a PF. You want to trade Drummond and keep Monroe as the Center - I'm ok with that. You want to let Monroe walk and keep Drummond as the Center - I'm ok with that too. But I have serious doubts about Monroe as our PF, especially when you factor in Jackson as our starting PG. It's an issue on offense due to spacing and it's an issue on defense due to guarding the screen game.

Last night part of the issue was the scheme to double the ball-handler on the screen, but I think a larger part of it is Monroe's inability to recover from that defensively. The scheme didn't change when Monroe went to the bench, yet we managed to recover and close out on shooters much quicker. The fact is that he lacks the footspeed to be out there in the high screen n roll situations on defense. I'm not even going to get into the fact that he got shut down on offense as he often does against bigger opponents, stronger opponents, or those that simply decide to front him.

Overall I think Monroe is a solid player, but last night was a culmination of all of the things about his game and the position we play him at that frustrate me.

Also, the bench was terrible last night which is inexcusable in a home game. That's where you should have an advantage at home and we had nothing. Meeks being broken is really hurting this team. I think part of the problem is that we don't go inside-out with that second unit so Meeks doesn't get a lot of good, open looks. He comes off of a curl and if that's not there, we wind up with some forced play at the end of the shot clock. Without Moose in the post or Jackson to penetrate that second unit winds up with a low number of opportunities to swing the ball for weak side threes. That hurts Jodi's game.

Let's not talk about free throws. Stan said all that needs to said there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drummond was himself. Half the time he looked lazy, didn't dunk the ball when he should have, and got lost on defense. The other half of the time he looked like the man-child who has potential to be an all-star. Finished with solid stats as usual, but did they really tell the full story? This has been my struggle with Drummond all year. He either gets tired too quickly or simply doesn't have the drive/motor/desire to give it his all for a full game. Not sure which it is yet. Judging by the way his body seems to be becoming more and more pear shaped rather than getting his butt in the workout room to become more Howard-shaped, I'm hedging towards the latter rather than the former.

It's the latter unfortunately and is the biggest reason why I'm not a huge fan of his. It's been his biggest issue ever since high school.

If you mix his physical ability with Big Ben's desire, you would have the premier big man in the league. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the desire to be the very best he can be. Still a good player and always will be but he will never be a consistent force because of his lazy habits, this is something that isn't fixable either.

Edited by NYLion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In no way should the hack a shaq be allowed in the NBA.

So let's say we follow through on this proposal to rid the league of these poor shooters. The first thing to happen would be the NBA would see their average player height drop about 4 inches as all the big guys would be unable to keep pace. So now we would have a league where you have layups and nice shooting, welcome to the WNBA.

Some big men have figured out FT shooting, but too many of them haven't, that is the nature of the game. Basketball is the one sport where the final few minutes deteriorate so rapidly that the game more resembles a weekend hack fest at the Y.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I actually wasn't that discouraged by the result. They outplayed Cleveland for 2+ quarters, they just couldn't keep up the pace and the Jackson led offense seemed out of sync in nthe second half.

The positive is that once Jackson gets used to the system and his teammates, the team could really take off. I was a little skeptical about Jackson being much of an upgrade on Augustin because I hadn't seen much of him outside of the playoffs but you can see how big his upside is. Flashes of utter brilliance and a tremendous ballhandler so once he gets comfortable here, it's going to be a treat to watch.

Games like last night are why I'm a bit lukewarm on giving Monroe the max contract. Offensively, he just can't elevate over true big men and defensively, he can't cover stretch 4's of which there are many in the league nowadays. I'm going to give my boy Draymond Green another plug. If you put him on Love, I guarantee that he doesn't go off like that. That's the beauty of a player like Green, the versatiliy to cover several positions and the ability to create matchup nightmares for slower bigs like Monroe on the other end. Monroe just doesn't have that ability to cover multiple positions and it hurts them in games like this.

In any event, the #7 or #8 playoff spot is the Pistons to lose. I think they are clearly better than all the other "contenders" for those spots. I just hope that Cleveland stays at the 3 spot, that's the one team I'm confident that the Pistons can't beat in a playoff series.

I don't think Monroe is a "max" player either, and i'd love to see Green as a piston next year. Should be an interesting offseason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be clear, I don't know what the solution to the FT thing is, but teams don't foul at the end of football or hockey or soccer or baseball games (I guess that would be breaking the rules rather than foul).

Seems odd to me. We are ok with running the clock out in football and I don't think anyone would advocate allowing a defensive team to foul the offense to get the ball back in football. But basketball the onus is generally on the offense to hit the FT.

Seems odd to me is all.

There's nothing odd about it. It's a simple trade off. You purposely put the other team on the line so you can stop the clock, and you hope they will miss at least one of the shots. Basketball is not the only sport with this sort of trade-off. It's akin to spiking the ball (and losing a down) to kill the clock in football; or pulling the goalie (and leaving your net unguarded) to gain an extra attacker in hockey; or in baseball intentionally walking a guy to get a better match up for your pitcher (but putting a runner on 1st), or using the defensive shift to take away the hitter's dominant side of the field (but leaving him the other side wide open).

These are all strategies that give the opponent a tangible advantage in return for what you feel is a greater advantage for your team. Hack-a-Shaq is no different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems odd to me to change a rule because a couple players can't do something very well. Especially something as easy as hitting a decent % of FTs.

Hacka-a-bad ft shooting player doesn't always work either.

OTOH. I hate it when teams start doing it in the third quarter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...