Jump to content

Stormin' Norman

2015 Offseason

Recommended Posts

I don't see Suh losing his motor. He seems like one of those guys who is motivated purely by the desire to dominate. For that reason, I would hope (and expect) the team uses all means necessary to keep him, including the Franchise Tag. The window is next year. After that, who knows how much CJ has left... and whether Stafford is worth being paid like a franchise QB without him.

Oh dear God........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't, because he's a pretty good value; isn't making a ton.

I agree he is a good value, but it seemed like many soured on him late in the year and it would net them more than a million.

I suspect that they won't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We'll they juggled themselves right into the situation we are in now. No real leverage in negotiating with Suh.

They don't need any leverage, they just need enough available funds to pay him as much as someone else will offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lions do have leverage, they are the only team that can negotiate with Suh until FA starts, and they have the franchise tag in their back pocket. They could also transition tag him, which would allow them to match any offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure where the idea that 'Stafford needs weapons' has come from given the garbage he's had to work with most of his career.

Maybe we can dump Tate and bring back Kris Durham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get rid of Bush. We've got Bell and Riddick is similar to Bush, maybe not as good with normal hand offs, but imo his catching hands are better and he is easily as good with screen passes as Bush is, and this has become a large percentage of what Bush does these days. Then we get some fresh meat in the draft.

Please please get rid of Ross. He's so distinctly average at punt and kick off returns and it's not like he's shown a great head/security/lack of gaffs to compensate for this. Find someone with a bit of godamn electricity, with some shiftiness or explosive pace to burn. I get jealous watching other teams with players receiving punts and kicks that look like they could take them to the house. Ross only has a chance when playing in ten foot snow it would seem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clearly you missed the point.

You said it was ridiculous to think we could sign someone cheaper than Tate.

I mentioned Emanuel Sanders.

So what point did I miss?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You said it was ridiculous to think we could sign someone cheaper than Tate.

I mentioned Emanuel Sanders.

So what point did I miss?

Pretty sure that while Sanders had about a .5 mil lesser salary, he had a bigger cap hit in year one. He's also signed for less years which is a negative in this situation IMO.

Anways, still not the point. Point was that Tate was a great get for us and trying to use that as a negative move makes you look silly and petty. I have no interest in a cheaper WR when we nailed the one we got and he looks to be a stud player for a long time going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Finish your sentence.

Oh dear God I can't take any more of the "Stafford might be made by Calvin" talk.

The guy who was statistically found to have the least help of all QBs with a postiive impact gets too much help. Only in Detroit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Get rid of Bush. We've got Bell and Riddick is similar to Bush, maybe not as good with normal hand offs, but imo his catching hands are better and he is easily as good with screen passes as Bush is, and this has become a large percentage of what Bush does these days. Then we get some fresh meat in the draft.

Please please get rid of Ross. He's so distinctly average at punt and kick off returns and it's not like he's shown a great head/security/lack of gaffs to compensate for this. Find someone with a bit of godamn electricity, with some shiftiness or explosive pace to burn. I get jealous watching other teams with players receiving punts and kicks that look like they could take them to the house. Ross only has a chance when playing in ten foot snow it would seem.

No need to cut Bush until you need the space. We aren't there yet. I'm certainly open to it though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh dear God I can't take any more of the "Stafford might be made by Calvin" talk.

The guy who was statistically found to have the least help of all QBs with a postiive impact gets too much help. Only in Detroit

Who said "too much help"? I wish we had three Calvin Johnsons, a Kellen Winslow, a Barry Sanders, and a Franco Harris.

Fact: For 2015, CJ and Stafford total $38 million against the cap. 2016, that's over $46 million. 2017, $43 million. Assuming that the team keeps Suh (and without him, the defense instantly becomes average), that's at least another $20 million to allocate to him annually. Assuming the cap is $140 million we are talking about 40% of the cap tied up in three players - one of whom is declining, another of whom has a high ceiling but may never reach it.

Keeping Suh, we are looking at almost $60 million invested in our top three next season. The Pats are at $49 million, and that includes a HOF QB. Packers are at $43 million, and that includes a HOF QB. Ravens are at $42 million, and that includes a Super Bowl winning QB. Give Russell Wilson a $20 million deal, and the Seahawks are still only at $40 million for their top three, and this includes a Super Bowl winning QB.

The NFL isn't about the numbers on the back of bubble gum trading cards. With Suh, and a year of improvement in the offense, next season's Lions team may catch lightning in a bottle and make a deep playoff run. Or Calvin could continue to break down and Stafford could continue to look like a less than stellar QB without him. If that's the case, the team has to consider seriously how it allocates its salaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like a couple people started the 'without Suh the defense would be average' talking point and now everyone and their brother keeps saying it. He is a very good player, but we would be fine without him. We would not become average. If you replace him with a down right slob then yeah we may fall to average. Replace him with an average D lineman and we would be fine.

That said I want to keep him...I just think his importance is being WAY overblown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel like a couple people started the 'without Suh the defense would be average' talking point and now everyone and their brother keeps saying it. He is a very good player, but we would be fine without him. We would not become average. If you replace him with a down right slob then yeah we may fall to average. Replace him with an average D lineman and we would be fine.

That said I want to keep him...I just think his importance is being WAY overblown.

You might be right, but I strongly disagree. He has been the most dominant, most consistent 4-3 DT in the NFL since he entered the league. I believe he creates opportunities for his fellow DL by taking on regular double and triple teams, and that the DL, and the whole defense, would be pedestrian without him.

I don't want to find out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You might be right, but I strongly disagree. He has been the most dominant, most consistent 4-3 DT in the NFL since he entered the league. I believe he creates opportunities for his fellow DL by taking on regular double and triple teams, and that the DL, and the whole defense, would be pedestrian without him.

I don't want to find out.

He gets more than his fair share of attention from the OL trying to block him for sure. Having a good D line allows the team to play better in the pass defense with 7 instead of 6. Having said all that...we would not become average without him IMO. You lose a good player and replace him with a bad player you will automatically be worse. Replace him with a decent D lineman and we will be fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty sure that while Sanders had about a .5 mil lesser salary, he had a bigger cap hit in year one. He's also signed for less years which is a negative in this situation IMO.

Anways, still not the point. Point was that Tate was a great get for us and trying to use that as a negative move makes you look silly and petty. I have no interest in a cheaper WR when we nailed the one we got and he looks to be a stud player for a long time going forward.

Silly and petty. LMAO. you kids crack me up tossing around terms like that so fast.

The reason is Mayhew is now having to scramble to cut payroll to sign Suh.

Like I said in my original post, I like Tate a lot. But this is the GMs job, to find the best talent he can at the right price.

It was the best wide receiver draft ever last year. A cheaper wide receiver could have been had with Emanuel Sanders or the draft was my only point.

Not sure why you feel the need to inserting things like "silly or pety". It's a discussion about football, son.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Serious question: does anybody think that the Lions can lose Suh and Austin and still be projected as a likely plus defense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serious question: does anybody think that the Lions can lose Suh and Austin and still be projected as a likely plus defense?

I don't.

Ansah has raw speed around the edge and is starting to put it together. But, Fairley aside, I don't see anyone else on that DL who is a difference maker.

Levy is outstanding, but Palmer and Whitehead are about average, and Tulloch is most likely a cap casualty. Van Noy... Too soon to tell.

Slay was a revelation this season. Quin too. Ihedigbo was generally solid. I think Mathis's contract is up. What Austin did with this core and a bunch of spare parts is, I think, astounding. And getting the whole defense to play together, back to front, was something I've never seen in a Lions team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He gets more than his fair share of attention from the OL trying to block him for sure. Having a good D line allows the team to play better in the pass defense with 7 instead of 6. Having said all that...we would not become average without him IMO. You lose a good player and replace him with a bad player you will automatically be worse. Replace him with a decent D lineman and we will be fine.

If we will be fine replacing him with a much cheaper "decent D lineman" than keeping him would be silly. You don't sign a guy to one of the richest defensive contracts in the NFL if you would be fine replacing him with a much cheaper player. That doesn't even make sense. If we will be fine without Suh, we shouldn't sign him. I, however, don't think that will necessarily be the case...his ability to command double teams and get after the QB/RB is what made this defense tick. We saw this season what happens when a dominate defense loses its pressure on the QB/RB in Carolina, they went from 2nd to 21st in a single season; they went from 12-4 to 7-8-1 while their offense remained very similar (18th in 2013 and 19th in 2014).

Now, with all that being said, I do agree that we could be alright without Suh but I think it will take more than just replacing him with a decent DL...we would need to use the money and upgrade multiple positions considerably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who said "too much help"? I wish we had three Calvin Johnsons, a Kellen Winslow, a Barry Sanders, and a Franco Harris.

Fact: For 2015, CJ and Stafford total $38 million against the cap. 2016, that's over $46 million. 2017, $43 million. Assuming that the team keeps Suh (and without him, the defense instantly becomes average), that's at least another $20 million to allocate to him annually. Assuming the cap is $140 million we are talking about 40% of the cap tied up in three players - one of whom is declining, another of whom has a high ceiling but may never reach it.

Keeping Suh, we are looking at almost $60 million invested in our top three next season. The Pats are at $49 million, and that includes a HOF QB. Packers are at $43 million, and that includes a HOF QB. Ravens are at $42 million, and that includes a Super Bowl winning QB. Give Russell Wilson a $20 million deal, and the Seahawks are still only at $40 million for their top three, and this includes a Super Bowl winning QB.

The NFL isn't about the numbers on the back of bubble gum trading cards. With Suh, and a year of improvement in the offense, next season's Lions team may catch lightning in a bottle and make a deep playoff run. Or Calvin could continue to break down and Stafford could continue to look like a less than stellar QB without him. If that's the case, the team has to consider seriously how it allocates its salaries.

There salaries have been huge for a while now and we haven't had an issue adding players in free agency or managing our cap situation. I think it's important that a team keeps and thus pays its QB and Suh is a consistent All Pro defender with HOF potential. We haven't had a guy like that as a part of this franchise for a long time now and I'd rather pay him than get cheap about it. Calvin's deal can be removed from the books or adjusted in the near future if he doesn't live up to his salary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we will be fine replacing him with a much cheaper "decent D lineman" than keeping him would be silly. You don't sign a guy to one of the richest defensive contracts in the NFL if you would be fine replacing him with a much cheaper player. That doesn't even make sense. If we will be fine without Suh, we shouldn't sign him. I, however, don't think that will necessarily be the case...his ability to command double teams and get after the QB/RB is what made this defense tick. We saw this season what happens when a dominate defense loses its pressure on the QB/RB in Carolina, they went from 2nd to 21st in a single season; they went from 12-4 to 7-8-1 while their offense remained very similar (18th in 2013 and 19th in 2014).

Now, with all that being said, I do agree that we could be alright without Suh but I think it will take more than just replacing him with a decent DL...we would need to use the money and upgrade multiple positions considerably.

Well said. You don't pay Suh unless you believe he is a truly elite player. He's been an All Pro every year of his career IIRC, so I think he qualifies. No health issues either. We average a full yard less per rush given up when he's on the field too. Yes, he'd be replaced by a better player than what's represented in that stat, but its still an impressive number IMO. Throw in his pass rushing from the interior and you have a damn impactful player. I think he's the key to everything we do defensively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Motown Sports Blog



  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      96,815
    • Total Posts
      3,020,749
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...