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Stormin' Norman

2015 Offseason

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I didn't know that Suh just turned 28, for some reason I thought he was only like 25 or 26. When do DTs normally decline? I would hate to give him a ton of money only to start deteriorating in a couple years.

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The problem with Transition Tag is that, for Suh, it would cost as much as the franchise tag.

The advantage that it is that since it does open the door for other teams to negotiate freely with Suh (and doesn't carry the draft pick compensation of the Franchise tag), it COULD create a scenario where Suh quickly identifies his market value while giving the Lions the right of first refusal. If Suh (or his agent) want to play hardball though, Suh could avoid signing an offer sheet and make the Lions keep the Transition Tag on the books all the way til July.

Unless the salary cap increases as dramatically as it did last year, I think we are just going to have to trust Suh allow the Lions to match any deal he finds on the market.

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I didn't know that Suh just turned 28, for some reason I thought he was only like 25 or 26. When do DTs normally decline? I would hate to give him a ton of money only to start deteriorating in a couple years.

He was an old senior. The good thing is that DT is a position that often holds up, as long as the player avoids injury and maintains dedication to their workout regiment.

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What is the draft pick compensation of the franchise tag? How does that work? I thought if you franchise him you get him for one year. How do other teams come into play?

And how does the transition tag result in the same hit as the franchise tag? I thought you would get him for what the offer sheet was.

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There are two different franchise tags - exclusive and non-exclusive.

The exclusive franchise tag is the most expensive and prevents other teams from getting involved - it allows the player to only negotiate with the club. The non-exclusive franchise tag allows the player to negotiate with other teams, but it costs another team two first round picks to sign them. I'm not sure the difference in money between them off hand, I know one of them deals with the top 5 salaries of that position - but it really doesn't matter in this case because any tag we place on Suh will be 120% of last year's salary.

That includes the transition tag which either costs the average of the top 10 salaries or the 120% of last year's salary - whatever's greater.

As far as how the transition tag works, last year actually provides a good example. Alex Mack and Jason Worilds were both transition tagged. Jacksonville made Alex Mack an offer and the Browns decided to match it - so they assumed the contract Jacksonville offered Mack. Worilds, on the other hand, was not made an offer from another team and so he played this year on a one year contract for whatever the tag cost was.

So if Suh was transition tagged, other teams would be free to make Suh contract offers. If Suh gets a contract he likes, he can sign the offer sheet and the Lions would have time to match it. But Suh could refuse to sign the offer sheet of every team all the way to the deadline - which is July - if he wanted to.

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The difference between exclusive is non exclusive is that the exclusive free agent number uses next year's top 5 salaries while the non-exclusive tag uses last year's top 5 salaries.

But, again, it will all cost the same in this instance since Suh is already the top DT contract.

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I see. The danger of the transition tag is that he wouldn't sign an offer sheet because he would want the big one year deal.

Not sure what I think would happen. Hard to imagine a team won't make him a big offer. I would think he would want to take it, because I think the offers will be pretty big.

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I think the question will be guaranteed money + brand value. I could see Suh taking the second highest guarantee offer if he feels like that destination will be better for his business deals.

The advantage we have is that no team will be more comfortable with Suh as a person - and theoretically more willing to give him guaranteed cash - than us, with really only Jim Schwartz coming close. Luckily, assuming he stays in Buffalo, they can't afford to throw more cap money on that defensive line.

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Oakland not being seriously considered for LA at this point is also a good thing, the opportunity to make Suh "the guy" for a return to LA would offer a lot of potential as a market.

The Jets scare me the most. They have 45 mil in space and New York. The good thing is that they have two bluechip defensive linemen themselves they need to pay and don't have Rex Ryan as a recruiter anymore.

Edited by Stormin' Norman

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Outside of Suh, nobody we can't afford to lose on that list. The roster and cap situation are really good for this team right now.

I've moved into the sign Suh at all costs camp. I believe he's worth it and has a chance to retire as a top 5 4-3 DT of all time.

This goes against everything I've read in the past year.

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Thanks. I finally found the explanation for the 27 million number being based off of his 2014 cap number.

Franchise tag seems to be a no go. I don't see how they could make that work.

The transition tag could work, though. I don't see why they wouldn't justify matching another team's offer sheet.

How much salary cutting would the Lions have to do elsewhere to make an exclusive franchise tag work?

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Overthecap dot com has all the numbers.

It doesn't say what the 2015 cap is, though, but I think it is around 140.

They are currently looking at a cap hit of 120.

Adding suh via franchise would put them at 147.

You can see the list of cap savings for cutting various players at the site.

Tulloch at 3.2 and bush at 1.7 seem obvious. Pettigrew and broyles each at 800-900k also seem like easy cuts to make.

But they also have to fill out the squad with a number of 500k guys and pay their draft picks, too.

I don't know how restructuring works, but maybe there is something they can do to open up more space.

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Overthecap dot com has all the numbers.

It doesn't say what the 2015 cap is, though, but I think it is around 140.

They are currently looking at a cap hit of 120.

Adding suh via franchise would put them at 147.

You can see the list of cap savings for cutting various players at the site.

Tulloch at 3.2 and bush at 1.7 seem obvious. Pettigrew and broyles each at 800-900k also seem like easy cuts to make.

But they also have to fill out the squad with a number of 500k guys and pay their draft picks, too.

I don't know how restructuring works, but maybe there is something they can do to open up more space.

Thank you! I was not aware of that website.

Seems at first blush to be doable, if difficult.

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Another reason I'd like to keep Vaughn at the right deal' date=' the only corners we have on our roster are Slay, Seisay, Bentley and Lawson - two of which are coming off of IR.

Vaughn isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.[/quote']

Vaughn's the kind of guy you sign for depth if you have training camp injuries or the like. He's not a guy who gets a contract any time earlier in the offseason really. You see what happens with Mathis, FA in general and the draft. If you lack a veteran body(who isn't very good at all), you can bring him back whenever you so desire. He has no market.

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Oakland not being seriously considered for LA at this point is also a good thing' date=' the opportunity to make Suh "the guy" for a return to LA would offer a lot of potential as a market.

The Jets scare me the most. They have 45 mil in space and New York. The good thing is that they have two bluechip defensive linemen themselves they need to pay and don't have Rex Ryan as a recruiter anymore.[/quote']

Yah, Jets aren't an option with Wilkerson and Richardson on the roster.

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This goes against everything I've read in the past year.

See the website Shelton mentions. We have 21 mil in space and we don't need to do much other than re-sign Suh and Prater in terms of cap space.

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Overthecap dot com has all the numbers.

It doesn't say what the 2015 cap is, though, but I think it is around 140.

They are currently looking at a cap hit of 120.

Adding suh via franchise would put them at 147.

You can see the list of cap savings for cutting various players at the site.

Tulloch at 3.2 and bush at 1.7 seem obvious. Pettigrew and broyles each at 800-900k also seem like easy cuts to make.

But they also have to fill out the squad with a number of 500k guys and pay their draft picks, too.

I don't know how restructuring works, but maybe there is something they can do to open up more space.

Tulloch probably goes due to our LB situation, but I'm not so sure Bush goes unless they are really squeezed for the money. THey don't need to save money just for the sake of saving money. I say bring Bush to camp and get what you can out of him. Just make sure you draft someone in the 4th or so who's ready to go if Bush gets hurt again or can't produce.

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I could see Bush end up taking a pay cut. His agent knows the market value for a running back of his age and he's in a pretty good situation here - I expect that we'll hear about a "contract restructuring" to open up cap space without specifics released that ends up simply being a reduction.

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I could see Bush end up taking a pay cut. His agent knows the market value for a running back of his age and he's in a pretty good situation here - I expect that we'll hear about a "contract restructuring" to open up cap space without specifics released that ends up simply being a reduction.

With us only standing to save 1.7, I doubt it. He also restructured for us last year

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I was looking at Stafford's contract to see what flexibility that gives us, he has 9.5M in base salary - any of which could be translated into a signing bonus - but his next two seasons already carry with it a pretty steep cap hit of 22M both years.

Calvin Johnson's contract is interesting though. We can walk away from him after 2017 and his 2018 and 2019 years are cheaper than 2015 and 2016. That means we can either make a commitment to Calvin and push some of his current cap number into the future or structure Suh's contract in a way so that his biggest cap hits come in 2018 and 2019.

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4. Resigning Fairley - If the price is right, they need to resign him. When he wants to be good, he is.

Any DT playing next to Suh is going to look good.

I tend to agree with Norm on this one. Let Fairly walk. The guy can’t stay on the field, his numbers are average, he has roller-coaster weight problems, immaturity issues, motivation issues… and now he has a bum knee. I didn’t really see the defense missing a beat while he was out.

It’s so obvious he’s motivated by FA right now to drop weight. He wants a payday. I don’t trust the guy - he’s too big of a risk. If the Lions re-sign him it had better be loaded with incentives. Otherwise, he cleans out the nearest all-you-can-eat buffet and turns back into the familiar fat pumpkin gulping for air on the sidelines. Until he gets injured again - which he of course will.

Seems like some team always overpays for a D-lineman in the offseason. Fairly will get way more guaranteed money elsewhere than with the Lions. I can see him being gone pretty quickly. Of course, Mayhew was just stupid enough to overvalue Pettigrew last year, so I guess I shouldn’t jump to conclusions

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Suh has told Mayhew he wants to be in Detroit' date=' which doesn't mean much - but better than alternative.[/quote']

Of course Suh's going to say all the right things. I don't really think it means anything

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The lions were one of just a couple of teams that had virtually no cap space going into last year. Luckily the cap is going up or we'd be in a world of hurt.

I say this cuz I put a lot of this on Mayhew and Lewand. But if they pull this offseason out of their collective butts, I will have to give them much cred.

They don't want to stand pat this offseason but with Suh potentially eating up a large portion of the cap, their offseason plans might be limited.

Regarding Suh. He's a ruthless negotiator in my opinion. His first agent out maneuvered Mayhew and Lewand so he hold all the cards now, cept for the franchise tag that still works in his favor.

So what did Suh do after his agent put him in this good position, he fired him. lol. I want to believe him that he wants to play here but I wouldn't doubt for a second that he'd bolt for another team if he makes more dough there.

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Bush is a gone IMO. Browyles is gone. Tully will have to take a pay cut to stay with the team.

Signing priorities IMO are Suh. He made our safeties look great. He really makes the QB throw that split second before he wants to and creates interception opportunities for our DBS.

Fairly to an incentive laden contract. We'd have to give him some guaranteed dough but put a lot of incentives in their. Keeping his weight down for starters.

Rob Sims

Those 3 come to mind off the top.

Edit...

Mosley, Riola (yes Riola ) Johnson and Prater also.

Edited by yeahbuddy

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