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mickeyb105

DJ Augustin, scrub or late bloomer?

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DJ Augustin was one of the most celebrated prep players in the country during his time in high school, leading his high school teams to two LA state championships before having to finish high school in Houston due to Hurricana Katrina--where he was a McDonald's AA. At Texas he was a first-team AA as a sophomore, where he was first-team Acedemic AA but declared for the draft anyway. If I had just gone through Katrina, I would have probably done the same thing--talk about real hardship.

After being selected late in the lottery (9th) by Charlotte, Augustin put up respectable numbers--43.9% 3pt, 89.3% FT and 11.8 PTS in just 26.5 MPG. Thing is, he didn't show any real improvement and was eventually made expendable by the emergence of Kemba Walker (the shame!). His last year in Charlotte, along with his stints in Indiana and Toronto, were truly awful aside from the 6.4 APG he posted in Charlotte. Last year in Chicago was something of an awakening for DJ. Signed after being waived by the Raptors, he averaged 14.9/5.0 and shot 41.1% from 3pt territory in 30.4 MPG

While he'll never be confused for Chauncey Billups, DJ's career followed a similar path to Detroit en route to redemption. He's distributing as well as he ever has given playing time, he takes care of the ball reasonably well, and when needed he can score the basketball in bunches. It is quite possible that the basketball we've seen of him from late--47% FG, 41% 3pt, 6.2 ast, 13.4 pts in 23 min--is repeatable for the remainder of the season.

That DJ and Jennings are playing good basketball of late shouldn't be that much of a shock, really. These two had big pedigrees coming into the NBA Draft and have shown flashes of being capable-to-good through their careers. Both are either entering or are in their prime years as basketball players.

It is really tough to call DJ a scrub right now.

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Want different metrics?

67th ranked PG in Real +/-. In fact, he is a negative player at -0.07.

PER? 13.8. That isn't even average.

WS? 186th. But I can't seem to find a rating for per/48.

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Gotta love the desire to argue about how crappy the players on this team are during a 7 game win streak agaisnt some of the best competition in the league. I don't get it at all....

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Gotta love the desire to argue about how crappy the players on this team are during a 7 game win streak agaisnt some of the best competition in the league. I don't get it at all....

Do I have to love that more than using 7 games to call a player good?

I mean, toss out the other 460+ games he played. Toss out the other 30 games he played this year. Toss out him getting murdered in the playoffs last year.

If we determined a players worth based on 7 games, Will Bynum would get a max contract. Stuckey would be our starting PG.

All players in the NBA have talent. Most all of them are capable of going on heaters for short periods of time. What separates the good from the bad/average is the ability to do it consistently. As yet, Augustin hasn't shown the ability to do this. If/when he does, things will be reevaluated.

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Gotta love the desire to argue about how crappy the players on this team are during a 7 game win streak agaisnt some of the best competition in the league. I don't get it at all....

Based on our own experience in Detroit, there are some really incompetent people coaching in the NBA, so you'd like to hope that if we finally hired a good coach, that we might see some guys raise their game!

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Do I have to love that more than using 7 games to call a player good?

I mean, toss out the other 460+ games he played. Toss out the other 30 games he played this year. Toss out him getting murdered in the playoffs last year.

If we determined a players worth based on 7 games, Will Bynum would get a max contract. Stuckey would be our starting PG.

All players in the NBA have talent. Most all of them are capable of going on heaters for short periods of time. What separates the good from the bad/average is the ability to do it consistently. As yet, Augustin hasn't shown the ability to do this. If/when he does, things will be reevaluated.

Dude...he's a back up PG. I don't think anyone's calling him an all-star. No one is calling him the GOAT. In fact the only thing anyone has done is respond to YOU calling him a scrub in the middle of a 17pt 3rd quarter during the 7th game of a winning streak by a team that has won 12 games all f'n season, which is the natural inclination of a fan to defend his/her team. Fine, you're Mister Realistic and Practical. Congrats, but what's this need to be the debbie downer and continue arguing this point? This is supposed to be a happy occassion. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who!

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Dude...he's a back up PG. I don't think anyone's calling him an all-star. No one is calling him the GOAT. In fact the only thing anyone has done is respond to YOU calling him a scrub in the middle of a 17pt 3rd quarter during the 7th game of a winning streak by a team that has won 12 games all f'n season, which is the natural inclination of a fan to defend his/her team. Fine, you're Mister Realistic and Practical. Congrats, but what's this need to be the debbie downer and continue arguing this point? This is supposed to be a happy occassion. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who!

You should ask the person that started the thread.

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At Texas he was a first-team AA as a sophomore, where he was first-team Acedemic AA but declared for the draft anyway.

I would think the smarter you are the more likely you would declare for the draft to start earning money, not less likely.

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I would think the smarter you are the more likely you would declare for the draft to start earning money, not less likely.

XVlnVh1.jpg

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I don't think we can say he's all of a sudden become a "late bloomer" who is now a clearly above average PG because of some good stretches. He's also had games where he wasn't particularly effective this season as well.

I think a lot of what the Pistons are doing has to do with them playing hard for themselves. But I also think some of it is people haven't game planned much for the Pistons since Josh Smith left. The Pistons (and us as fans) are learning what they are becoming after the Smith era right now. How are other teams supposed to know what they are going to be. As the Pistons continue to add to their resume of the "new Pistons" people will begin to understand who they are and gradually change how they play this team. In the NBA you are traveling all over the place. And it's not like a squad like Dallas (even if they had a night off prior to last night's game) can deeply invest in what the Pistons are doing lately. You can only adjust so much. Now, when the Pistons get to two months without Smith and it's more readily obvious to the league and everyone else "what the Pistons are" then it's going to get tougher for the Pistons and people like Augustin who weren't on other team's conscious as much. If he's consistently producing when we get to that point, then maybe we can talk more legitimately about who he is now vs. what we've seen him to be so far in his career. We'll get our answers eventually, but right now isn't the time that question can be answered definitively.

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XVlnVh1.jpg

I know.

I was almost an academic all american. I fell just short on the athletic accomplishment side my senior year in college in a non-revenue generating sport. I went back for two master's degrees in no small part because I genuinely enjoy learning. I plan to go back to school when I retire and study subjects that strike my fancy.

Long way around to saying I was a very good student who was at least as interested in learning as I'd guess 95+% of college students, and I look on my college experience as the highlight of my life.

If I were offered $1M guaranteed to leave college early at the time, I would have left in a heartbeat. If possible, I'd advise leaving sooner than that now that I have 20 more years of life experience under my belt.

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Why is he either a scrub or stud? It seems to be more like he is exactly what we signed him to be: a solid back-up point guard.

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Why is he either a scrub or stud? It seems to be more like he is exactly what we signed him to be: a solid back-up point guard.

Exactly.

He's a good team player, with a good attitude, that puts forth a lot of effort on the court. Stan's system is finally taking hold now that the roadblock was removed and the PGs will benefit from that.

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I don't think we can say he's all of a sudden become a "late bloomer" who is now a clearly above average PG because of some good stretches. He's also had games where he wasn't particularly effective this season as well.

I think a lot of what the Pistons are doing has to do with them playing hard for themselves. But I also think some of it is people haven't game planned much for the Pistons since Josh Smith left. The Pistons (and us as fans) are learning what they are becoming after the Smith era right now. How are other teams supposed to know what they are going to be. As the Pistons continue to add to their resume of the "new Pistons" people will begin to understand who they are and gradually change how they play this team. In the NBA you are traveling all over the place. And it's not like a squad like Dallas (even if they had a night off prior to last night's game) can deeply invest in what the Pistons are doing lately. You can only adjust so much. Now, when the Pistons get to two months without Smith and it's more readily obvious to the league and everyone else "what the Pistons are" then it's going to get tougher for the Pistons and people like Augustin who weren't on other team's conscious as much. If he's consistently producing when we get to that point, then maybe we can talk more legitimately about who he is now vs. what we've seen him to be so far in his career. We'll get our answers eventually, but right now isn't the time that question can be answered definitively.

This make a lot of sense. But just getting to where teams have to plan for the Pistons will be quite the victory for this season!

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This all started when Del said " You know the stars are aligning when scrubs like Augustin are going off". The only reason I replied to that is because I didn't find it all too surprising that Augustin "went off" because he has been known to go off on scoring sprees, had a bunch of 20+ points last season in a bigger role so I don't see him as a scrub who needs the stars to align to have a good scoring game. If Singler went off for 26 then I'd be pretty shocked, he's the definition of a scrub, a plug.

It seems that Del's definition of a scrub is any player that isn't at least a borderline all star.

IMO, Augustin is a role player who plays his role well. His job is to create some scoring punch off the bench and spark the team and that's pretty much what he does. Whether or not he's a scrub is subjective I suppose. A scrub to me is a player who doesn't do anything particularly well, just takes up space basically. Augustin is better than that.

Edited by NYLion

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This all started when Del said " You know the stars are aligning when scrubs like Augustin are going off". The only reason I replied to that is because I didn't find it all too surprising that Augustin "went off" because he has been known to go off on scoring sprees, had a bunch of 20+ points last season in a bigger role so I don't see him as a scrub who needs the stars to align to have a good scoring game. If Singler went off for 26 then I'd be pretty shocked, he's the definition of a scrub, a plug.

It seems that Del's definition of a scrub is any player that isn't a borderline all star.

IMO, Augustin is a role player who plays his role well. His job is to create some scoring punch off the bench and spark the team and that's pretty much what he does. Whether or not he's a scrub is subjective I suppose. A scrub to me is a player who doesn't do anything particularly well, just takes up space basically.

Augstin is a negative player. He does more bad than good. That is a scrub. It has nothing to do with borderline AS or not.

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Augstin is a negative player. He does more bad than good. That is a scrub. It has nothing to do with borderline AS or not.

I'm not into all the fancy stats so PER and all that doesn't mean much to me. Those +/- stats are mostly team based stats. It's like saying that a defenseman in hockey who put up 35-40 points is a scrub because he's a -15 on a poor team. It doesn't take into account linemates, luck and how poor the team actually is so that will always skew the stats in a negative direction.

I look at players and how they fit into the team concept. Augustin's job is to come off the bench and provide some scoring punch and that's what he does for the most part, some nights more than others. He's a solid back up point guard, nothing less nothing more.

I guess my point is that I don't find it surprising when Augustin gets hot. You made it seem like this is some anamoly from him, it really isn't. 26 points is but he's shown to be capable of going on these scoring binges.

Edited by NYLion

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I'm not into all the fancy stats so PER and all that doesn't mean much to me. Those +/- stats are mostly team based stats. It's like saying that a defenseman in hockey who put up 35-40 points is a scrub because he's a -15 on a poor team. It doesn't take into account linemates, luck and how poor the team actually is so that will always skew the stats in a negative direction.

I look at players and how they fit into the team concept. Augustin's job is to come off the bench and provide some scoring punch and that's what he does for the most part, some nights more than others. He's a solid back up point guard, nothing less nothing more.

Real plus/minus isolates you from your team fwiw

I tend to agree with your final paragraph. I doubt Del strongly disagrees with it either though.

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