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Tram - Hosed Again

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Trammell and Mussina both gained 19 votes this year: yeah, 19 votes is it for these guys! Bagwell, Bonds, and Clemens remained about par... but those two guys are the biggest criminal activity in ballot voting lately. Unfortunately it looks like both of them are never getting voted in, so here goes some hope that the veteran's committee does the right thing (for once).

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Who the hell voted for Darin Erstad?

The guy who didn't vote for Tony Clark.

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Trammell and Mussina both gained 19 votes this year: yeah, 19 votes is it for these guys! Bagwell, Bonds, and Clemens remained about par... but those two guys are the biggest criminal activity in ballot voting lately. Unfortunately it looks like both of them are never getting voted in, so here goes some hope that the veteran's committee does the right thing (for once).
Mussina is another head scratcher, for sure. Well at least Piazza is getting closer.

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It was clear a long time ago that Tram would never be voted in. Larkin is in, but Tram is not. Makes zero sense. Sandberg is in, but Lou is not. Again, similar stats.

Tram and Lou should get fixed in 2017 when both can be eligible for election by the Veterans committee. The BBWA is nothing more than a popularity contest.

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The Veterans Commmittee is historically worse than the BBWAA. I wouldn't count on them getting things right.

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Lou Whitaker is getting scammed even worse than Trammell. There's a few dozen people worse than Lou that are in the hall right now.

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How Bagwell doesn't get in is beyond me. He was never linked to steroids in any investigation yet the voters still don't vote for him. Why cause of the era he played in? Why does Randy Johnson get a free pass then, here's a pitcher that put up his best seasons in his late 30s(nobody else does that), that seems more questionable than anything Bagwell ever did. For reference to how good Bagwell was, for his career his wOBA is the same as Miggy's and his RC+ was within 3. People talk about Miggy being one of the best right handed hitters of all time and Bagwell's career numbers are right there with his. Could you imagine Miggy not getting in the Hall?

Edited by RandyMarsh

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I think if you asked any GM in the 80's if they would have traded Ozzie Smith for Trammell, straight up, the majority, if not all, would make that trade.

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The Veterans Commmittee is historically worse than the BBWAA. I wouldn't count on them getting things right.
Must have tightened up a lot - they used to let some very questionable guys in the old days: Rizzuto, Jesse Haines, Pee Wee Reese, Bill Mazeroski, Fred Lidstrom, Rabbit Maranville, etc.

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The veterans committee is totally different now. Back when guys like rizzuto were getting in it was their buddies. Seems to be a lot more stringent now. Someone on twitter siad getting in that way is like getting your GED

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The BBWA is nothing more than a popularity contest.

This is it in a nutshell. It's funny when you bring up similar stats between players to one of these fellows, the usual fall back argument is something like "well, the difference is that player A is just a no doubt HOFer while player B, he just doesn't carry the same weight" or some other unquantified malarky.

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The problem is the voting population. YOu have too many fringe voters who covered the game years ago but may no longer be involved in it yet they maintain their vote. Someone like Rob Parker. Not to pick him specifically because of his other controversial opinions or actions but seriously.... do you ever see him write or discuss the game in detail? He covered the Reds for a few years for a Cincy paper and then became a columnist. I'm not even sure where he writes now. I only see him on Channel 4. The BBWAA has hundreds just like him.

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Another problem is when you have a group that large voting, you invariably will get differing ideas as to what constitutes a HoF player and various agendas being forwarded, so it is hard to get 75% agreement.

I would also suggest sports writers are not especially known for being long on applying logic consistently.

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Right... back in the day that may have been the key group to go to. Following the game was harder and sportswriters may have been the best group for such a thing.

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Right... back in the day that may have been the key group to go to. Following the game was harder and sportswriters may have been the best group for such a thing.

Sure - when the HoF formed they probably watched as much baseball as anyone and knew what scouts and front offices thought about players (flawed or not) better than anyone outside of MLB.

Now with all games televised, information much easier to lay hands on and a frankly better understanding of what constitutes effective play, there is nothing that says sports writers as a group are the best group for this task.

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Another problem is when you have a group that large voting, you invariably will get differing ideas as to what constitutes a HoF player and various agendas being forwarded, so it is hard to get 75% agreement.

I would also suggest sports writers are not especially known for being long on applying logic consistently.

Its understandable that those different opinions will have different floors for what constitutes a hall of fame player. Those opinions just get need to get lost when consistency isn't used.

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Now with all games televised, information much easier to lay hands on and a frankly better understanding of what constitutes effective play, there is nothing that says sports writers as a group are the best group for this task.

Which is why the blogosphere has been so successful (much to the old guard's chagrin). Blogsphere lead to honest evaluation and the bad ones can be spotted easily. The writers, even though they are given direct access to the team, generally only report up to a certain point and that point is that which will not get them kicked out of the clubhouse.

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There are many writers who do a good job in voting for the HoF. The problem is they are mixed in with too many irrelevant writers who don't cover the sport. Blogs have made the jobs of sports writers more difficult, but thee are as many bad blogs out there as sports writers. If they ever allowed bloggers to vote for the HoF, you'd end up with the same problem.

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There are many writers who do a good job in voting for the HoF. The problem is they are mixed in with too many irrelevant writers who don't cover the sport. Blogs have made the jobs of sports writers more difficult, but thee are as many bad blogs out there as sports writers. If they ever allowed bloggers to vote for the HoF, you'd end up with the same problem.

The bad blogs will probably not get as many subscribers though. Unlike the newspapers where the readers are subjected to the writers that the newspaper contracts, with the blogs a reader makes a conscience choice to read a writer regularly. The amount of subscribers would definitely be a factor in determining the validity of the bloggers opinions etc.

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The bad blogs will probably not get as many subscribers though. Unlike the newspapers where the readers are subjected to the writers that the newspaper contracts, with the blogs a reader makes a conscience choice to read a writer regularly. The amount of subscribers would definitely be a factor in determining the validity of the bloggers opinions etc.

The problem is there are groups of blogs under an umbrella such as SB Nation or Bleacher Report or MLB or ESPN, so they are becoming more like newspapers. Also, lots of times there will be a big blog with 10 different writers. One or two might be good writers and maybe the rest are just there to keep the blog active.

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