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2015 Michigan Wolverines Football

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Any news on the S&C hire, Kevin Tolbert? This was an issue under Hoke.

I remember listening to Chris Carter and Mike Golic talk about how small the OL/DL players at UM looked in comparison to their competition. Others have said it as well, this will change under Harbaugh.

Brady didn't really start bringing in OLineman heavily until yr 2 and most OLinemen get red-shirted. Last season was really the 1st O-Line that you could call a Hoke line and they were mostly sophs and RS freshmen. So they were bound to look small next to the typical 23 yr old 5th yr OLine starters on most teams. I've said before, it's hard to fully evaluate Brady because it seemed he had managed his offensive recruiting on the basis of having more guaranteed years to get there. That was a serious strategic error on his part, and after all, understanding things like your institutional time line independently of whatever line your AD fed you is part of what a head coach needs to be able to do for himself.

Based on the pipeline you can make a reasonable argument Brady should have gotten another year to coach his own recruits, but even aside from Gardner, the rest of the team's football IQ/attention to detail seemed to be moving in the wrong direction independent of whether the talent pipeline may have potential.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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Brady didn't really start bringing in OLineman heavily until yr 2 and most OLinemen get red-shirted. Last season was really the 1st O-Line that you could call a Hoke line and they were mostly sophs and RS freshmen. So they were bound to look small next to the typical 23 yr old 5th yr OLine starters on most teams. I've said before, it's hard to fully evaluate Brady because it seemed he had managed his offensive recruiting on the basis of having more guaranteed years to get there. That was a serious strategic error on his part, and after all, understanding things like your institutional time line independently of whatever line your AD fed you is part of what a head coach needs to be able to do for himself.

Based on the pipeline you can make a reasonable argument Brady should have gotten another year to coach his own recruits, but even aside from Gardner, the rest of the team's football IQ/attention to detail seemed to be moving in the wrong direction independent of whether the talent pipeline may have potential.

It's hard to figure what Hoke's major issue was. I really do think he was hampered on offense by the low number of 4 and 5 year guys. That's the foundation for a good program. Young guys make errors that for the most part only reps can reduce and experience around them can help offset. They just didn't have that on offense with what, one senior? They had much more balance on the defensive side but even there guys didn't seem to fly around the field with confidence.

I do think Harbaugh will inherit a talented roster with decent depth though. It won't be perfect, particularly with a new QB but the OL and DL will be populated by JRs which will make a huge difference.

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It's hard to figure what Hoke's major issue was. I really do think he was hampered on offense by the low number of 4 and 5 year guys. That's the foundation for a good program. Young guys make errors that for the most part only reps can reduce and experience around them can help offset. They just didn't have that on offense with what, one senior? They had much more balance on the defensive side but even there guys didn't seem to fly around the field with confidence.

I do think Harbaugh will inherit a talented roster with decent depth though. It won't be perfect, particularly with a new QB but the OL and DL will be populated by JRs which will make a huge difference.

In a webinar I listened to on crisis leadership they used the example of him polling the team on going for two vs OSU as poor situational leadership.

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In a webinar I listened to on crisis leadership they used the example of him polling the team on going for two vs OSU as poor situational leadership.

That's probably true but most of his losses didn't come down to a situational decision. Or maybe they did, he didn't handle the youth situation very well.

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That's probably true but most of his losses didn't come down to a situational decision. Or maybe they did, he didn't handle the youth situation very well.

yeah - I didn't feel it was on game day stuff - though it's true they did roll over at least a couple of times - as much the day to day coaching/teaching that wasn't there. The players were not getting better, they didn't execute, there was no on the field evidence at all that anybody other than the punter ever practiced anything on special teams, he never really got the FG unit straightened out after RR took it to purgatory, the playbook was too short and too unimaginative, and he didn't have sense enough to bring in a QB who could play Div one. Program fundamentals just seemed weak.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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Watching the Army High School All-Star game today, and they have UM ranked 90th in their recruiting.

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Marrow offered a position on Harbaugh's staff. Can't say I know a lot about him, but reading that is a great recruiter in the Ohio and Kentucky area. Also a decent TEs coach.

This is supposed to a big get if Harbs can convince him to sign on. Should know by Monday or Tuesday.

Vince Marrow has been Offered a Job at Michigan | Nation of Blue

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Driskel is a strange one. Big time recruit who looked to have a bright future after his first season in 2012, but has regressed significantly since then. If you watch him now, he has lost all confidence. Reminds me of Gardner.

I've seen rumors about Stanford QB Kevin Hogan transferring for his graduate degree. Probably a pipe dream, but Harbaugh did recruit him there and he sure would be a great fit.

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Watching the Army High School All-Star game today, and they have UM ranked 90th in their recruiting.

We only have 6 verbals so that looks about right. But I bet it changes here shortly. We're in this dead period where no contact can be made but hope that ranking goes up.

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From the things i'm reading its not a matter of if we get a transfer QB, but who.

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yeah - I didn't feel it was on game day stuff - though it's true they did roll over at least a couple of times - as much the day to day coaching/teaching that wasn't there. The players were not getting better, they didn't execute, there was no on the field evidence at all that anybody other than the punter ever practiced anything on special teams, he never really got the FG unit straightened out after RR took it to purgatory, the playbook was too short and too unimaginative, and he didn't have sense enough to bring in a QB who could play Div one. Program fundamentals just seemed weak.

I think that's a little harsh. Both lines improved from the bottom up, the defense improved overall, Gibbons became productive. Like Borges said, it wasn't one thing, it was most often a different guy making a mistake. I blame lack of reps but obviously coaching can mitigate some of that. My theory on Gardner is that the offense never came naturally to him. He often looked his best when his back was against the wall.

As an aside, a former player joined a tailgate with our group last season. He loved Hoke but thought he just wasn't hard nosed enough with some guys when it came to pushing them beyond their limits. He didn't say it that way though, he said that Hoke commented on the challenges of the different personalities. In the players mind he should have just gotten in their face. That wasn't his style apparently.

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It's hard to figure what Hoke's major issue was. I really do think he was hampered on offense by the low number of 4 and 5 year guys. That's the foundation for a good program. Young guys make errors that for the most part only reps can reduce and experience around them can help offset. They just didn't have that on offense with what, one senior? They had much more balance on the defensive side but even there guys didn't seem to fly around the field with confidence.

I do think Harbaugh will inherit a talented roster with decent depth though. It won't be perfect, particularly with a new QB but the OL and DL will be populated by JRs which will make a huge difference.

I think his major issues boiled down to two things. He couldn't develop the talent he was recruiting and he just flat out couldn't coach. And by couldn't coach, I mean couldn't adjust to what other teams were doing and couldn't utilize the strengths of the players he did have. Whether the team was young or not (which was his excuse the past 3 years) they should have been improving week to week or showing improvement. They seemed to go the opposite way. A guy like Shane Morris is a good example. I cannot fathom how bad Morris must have been week in and week out at practice to not earn the right to replace Gardner. How was this 4* recruit being coached, why was he not developing. Same can be said about many others.

Hoke was a damn good guy. But he had to go. He was awful in almost every regard besides recruiting, which didn't matter when he couldn't develop the talent.

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I think his major issues boiled down to two things. He couldn't develop the talent he was recruiting and he just flat out couldn't coach. And by couldn't coach, I mean couldn't adjust to what other teams were doing and couldn't utilize the strengths of the players he did have. Whether the team was young or not (which was his excuse the past 3 years) they should have been improving week to week or showing improvement. They seemed to go the opposite way. A guy like Shane Morris is a good example. I cannot fathom how bad Morris must have been week in and week out at practice to not earn the right to replace Gardner. How was this 4* recruit being coached, why was he not developing. Same can be said about many others.

Hoke was a damn good guy. But he had to go. He was awful in almost every regard besides recruiting, which didn't matter when he couldn't develop the talent.

And I'll say again, that's way too harsh. Are you going to say the defense didn't improve? Are you going to say the OL didn't improve through the course of this season? It's not an excuse to point to the youth or to the fact that they tossed the spread. What I'd like to know is if Brandon was responsible for pushing Borges out. It didn't help that Gardner was on his third coordinator.

I am not saying they shouldn't have fired him but neither will I say he flat out couldn't coach. And if I said that, I'd limit it to offense. At a minimum he dug Michigan at least half way out of the hole he found them in.

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From the things i'm reading its not a matter of if we get a transfer QB, but who.

I think Kevin Hogan would be a good fit.

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And I'll say again, that's way too harsh. Are you going to say the defense didn't improve? Are you going to say the OL didn't improve through the course of this season? It's not an excuse to point to the youth or to the fact that they tossed the spread. What I'd like to know is if Brandon was responsible for pushing Borges out. It didn't help that Gardner was on his third coordinator.

I am not saying they shouldn't have fired him but neither will I say he flat out couldn't coach. And if I said that, I'd limit it to offense. At a minimum he dug Michigan at least half way out of the hole he found them in.

I didn't see the OL improve at all. The defense was solid.

And I am sure Brandon forced Borges out, but Borges had to go as well. Hoke and his staff (mainly offensive staff like you said) were outcoached on a weekly basis. They were downright embarrassing some weeks. Two weeks to prepare for msu and what was the game plan? They were predictable and they were pushed around week after week. Things like that just lead me to believe he couldn't coach. Or be a head coach I guess.

I do agree Hoke has left the program in a favorable position for Harbaugh to take over though. He just wasn't enough of a coach to get them to the next level.

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Just my 2 cents, if Michigan doesn't get SEC type of speed on the team.... they have no chance against Ohio State.

Harbaugh will be able to recruit all over the country and is currently bringing in the staff to do just that. Should be one hell of a rivalry going forward.

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Michigan is greatness. It's alway great. I didn't see the struggles you guys are talking about. Sorry.

lol. That's his story and he's sticking to it. I have to admire that approach. I never would have thought that's how he was going to answer those questions.

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I disagree. They don't really have much speed on offense, and this recruiting class is too light. I watched the UnderArmour Bowl today, and there was 1 Wolverine. There were about a dozen kids committed to Alabama, who has a full class of 23, even if they won't play. They have a long way to catch up with the big boys.

This years class isn't completed just yet. The guy has had the job for 5 days. Give him some time lol

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Marrow offered a position on Harbaugh's staff. Can't say I know a lot about him, but reading that is a great recruiter in the Ohio and Kentucky area. Also a decent TEs coach.

This is supposed to a big get if Harbs can convince him to sign on. Should know by Monday or Tuesday.

Vince Marrow has been Offered a Job at Michigan | Nation of Blue

University of Kentucky assistant football coach and ace recruiter Vince Marrow has not decided yet whether to accept an offer to join Jim Harbaugh's staff at Michigan and is likely to meet with UK administrators to discuss the matter this weekend before deciding in the coming days, according to a source.

I would think the meeting goes something like this ... "Here's what they are offering me. Do you want me here or not?"

j/k a little bit but I'm sure he brings the offer to the meeting.

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This years class isn't completed just yet. The guy has had the job for 5 days. Give him some time lol

He has about a month, most of the top players have already decided. Imam Marshall is one of the top athletes he has a chance on. He's a special player. I saw him cause a couple of fumbles, sort of like Tillman. He has to get him. Next year will be the big year.

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Watching the Army High School All-Star game today, and they have UM ranked 90th in their recruiting.

I'm sorry, but recruiting grades mean nothing to me.

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I'm sorry, but recruiting grades mean nothing to me.

They have six recruits committed right now, one is a kicker. One is a QB, an athlete, and Jon Runyan Jr. Most of the bigger powers have their whole class committed by now. Signing day is less than a month away. Michigan has a long way to go in a little time.

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