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kgeorge78

Stafford .... Would you trade him for ???

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Calvin Johnson makes Staffy a better player more than Staffy making CJ better. CJ routinely went after balls making crazy great catches on balls that were not thrown well.

As of the start of the season, CJ was the all-time leader in receiving YPG, and was about 5 YPG ahead of the next closest player. This season, Julio Jones passed him, averaging 88.4 YPG to CJ's 87.4. The next closest player is AJ Green, with 81.2 YPG, then a bunch of players in the 75 YPG range.

The point is that with CJ head and shoulders above the competition at WR, and with Stafford an average to above average QB by most measures, it is reasonable to conclude that CJ is the dominant partner in the relationship.

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I think he's about hit his ceiling. Until he can put some touch on the ball on short passes, he won't get a lot better IMO.

I think he is like a Cutler. Maybe a Romo or Flacco. The stars might align perfectly and we'd win 1 but I can't see him being a consistent winner.

A Romo, Flacco or Cutler without the INTs and pouting is a pretty damn good player.

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Tate wasn't the number 1 in Seattle. And Stafford doesn't make him better, Tate makes Stafford better. Tate's history was that he never drops passes before he got here. Who on the offense do you think Stafford has made better than they are?

Over time? Pettigrew,Scheffler,Durham,Ross,Fuller,Titus and Fauria at the least.

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He was not the first option in Seattle. And he was the first option when CJ was out.

So he was the #1 option when CJ was out in Detroit but was not the #1 option in Seattle when Harvin was out? You can see that this makes no sense, can't you? Do you think that Baldwin was the #1 in Seattle when Harvin was hurt?

Then again, you did say that Stafford=Harrington so it seems like you're going out of your way to discredit Stafford.

Anyway, even with Harvin on the roster, Tate was still the #1 in Seattle and he has had his career best season in Detroit with Stafford throwing him the ball so yes, Stafford helped make him a better player. No amount of spin that you try can argue against that.

I just want to add that I'm by no means a Stafford fanboy and I recognize that there is a limit to how good he can be due to his inaccurate arm and average Football IQ but the lengths that some will go to discredit him is a bit ridiculous.

Edited by NYLion

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So I did some reading last night and I think I was wrong that Tate was not the number 1 based purely on catches anyway. He caught 60 some, 65? 68? and Baldwin had 50.

So again, I cannot back up my statement that he was not the number 1 option in Seattle. Some things I read were not calling Tate number one, but I'm just going to bite the bullet on this one.

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So did Stafford make Tate better? Not one bit. Detroit passes more from my reading last night. Just about every article I read said that Seattle didn't pass much and Tate wanted to go to pass happy offense.

Also, remember the play versus the Aints? Staffy just turns and throws to Tate as Tate retreats from the line of scrimmage? Then Tate does all the work. Tate made that TD.

Tate got behind the safety versus the Falcons and Stafford delivered that ball to him wide open. Most of Tates yards are NOT cuz of Staffy, its because of Tate. Staffy did make a nice pass to him in the Falcons game in London on the final drive when we were on our own 10? The very first play of the drive, iirc. He threw him a long ball that got us almost to midfield.

But you are NEVER going to convince me that Stafford makes Tate. The Lions pass a lot and Tate gets his Yacs. He leads the league in yac's. That isn't Staffy.

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So he was the #1 option when CJ was out in Detroit but was not the #1 option in Seattle when Harvin was out? You can see that this makes no sense, can't you? Do you think that Baldwin was the #1 in Seattle when Harvin was hurt?

Then again, you did say that Stafford=Harrington so it seems like you're going out of your way to discredit Stafford.

Anyway, even with Harvin on the roster, Tate was still the #1 in Seattle and he has had his career best season in Detroit with Stafford throwing him the ball so yes, Stafford helped make him a better player. No amount of spin that you try can argue against that.

I just want to add that I'm by no means a Stafford fanboy and I recognize that there is a limit to how good he can be due to his inaccurate arm and average Football IQ but the lengths that some will go to discredit him is a bit ridiculous.

Look, if you don't like my honest critique of Staffy then don't read my posts. Its that simple. I've given him credit where I think its due.

The peeps who adore Staffy have done nothing but discredit our WR's cuz 'they can't catch', discredit our OLine, discredit Linehan who has Cowboys playing great offensive ball, discredit Schwartz, etc, etc, etc,

So if you are looking for ridiculous (your word), look no further than the Staffy lovers. They discredit anything and everything other than Maypoo's Golden Child.

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Look, if you don't like my honest critique of Staffy then don't read my posts. Its that simple. I've given him credit where I think its due.

The peeps who adore Staffy have done nothing but discredit our WR's cuz 'they can't catch', discredit our OLine, discredit Linehan who has Cowboys playing great offensive ball, discredit Schwartz, etc, etc, etc,

So if you are looking for ridiculous (your word), look no further than the Staffy lovers. They discredit anything and everything other than Maypoo's Golden Child.

Can you cite examples of the "ridiculous" posts in favor of Stafford? I haven't seen anything as ridiculous in favor of Stafford as the silly Harrington/Stafford comparison that you made earlier against Stafford.

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The most positive thing I saw about Stafford here was Nastradamus comparing him to Philip Rivers, which is a bit of a stretch at this point but could work out...in any case I don't see anybody drooling over Stafford here at all, far from it.

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Look, if you don't like my honest critique of Staffy then don't read my posts. Its that simple. I've given him credit where I think its due.

The peeps who adore Staffy have done nothing but discredit our WR's cuz 'they can't catch', discredit our OLine, discredit Linehan who has Cowboys playing great offensive ball, discredit Schwartz, etc, etc, etc,

So if you are looking for ridiculous (your word), look no further than the Staffy lovers. They discredit anything and everything other than Maypoo's Golden Child.

Ridiculous is comparing Stafford to Harrington and discrediting his impact on Tate by saying that he was not the 1st option in Seattle when Harvin was out yet was the 1st option in Detroit when CJ was out. It's just going out of your way to dump on Stafford.

I don't think the so called Staffy lovers have said anything ridiculous. In fact, every single defender of Stafford in this thread has admitted that he has serious faults and is clearly not elite.

Comparing Stafford to Harrington is borderline trolling IMO. I don't think you even believe that nonsense. That's not honest critiquing, it's wild hyperbole to push an agenda.

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why are you such a dick?

I had to jump into this thread just to make sure this wasn't directed at me.

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Can you cite examples of the "ridiculous" posts in favor of Stafford? I haven't seen anything as ridiculous in favor of Stafford as the silly Harrington/Stafford comparison that you made earlier against Stafford.

What does your question have to do with anything?

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Ridiculous is comparing Stafford to Harrington and discrediting his impact on Tate by saying that he was not the 1st option in Seattle when Harvin was out yet was the 1st option in Detroit when CJ was out. It's just going out of your way to dump on Stafford.

I don't think the so called Staffy lovers have said anything ridiculous. In fact, every single defender of Stafford in this thread has admitted that he has serious faults and is clearly not elite.

Comparing Stafford to Harrington is borderline trolling IMO. I don't think you even believe that nonsense. That's not honest critiquing, it's wild hyperbole to push an agenda.

You crack me up. Sounds like you are getting all emotional and defensive which is typical for Staffy lovers.

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And as long as my Happy Feet Harington post is getting so much time on the board, I might as well double down on it.

Someone on another site posted wins and losses for Happy Feet and Staffy. It was about a year ago or so, so I don't remember the exact numbers it said something like Joey had like 19 wins and Staffy had 20 something wins in about the same amount of games.

I think it was 25? So Staffy is clearly better but I think he's much, actually most of the problem with our offense.

I can't stand by those numbers but he was pretty sure of himself. I'm sure someone could go look it up if they felt like it. I don't feel like it.

You guys are cracking me up though. Gettin a tizzy fit over a post. LMAO

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Ridiculous is comparing Stafford to Harrington and discrediting his impact on Tate by saying that he was not the 1st option in Seattle when Harvin was out yet was the 1st option in Detroit when CJ was out. It's just going out of your way to dump on Stafford.

I don't think the so called Staffy lovers have said anything ridiculous. In fact, every single defender of Stafford in this thread has admitted that he has serious faults and is clearly not elite.

Comparing Stafford to Harrington is borderline trolling IMO. I don't think you even believe that nonsense. That's not honest critiquing, it's wild hyperbole to push an agenda.

If you believe that every single defender of Stafford in this thread has admitted that he has serious faults and is clearly not elite, then I am in agreement with all of these defenders. That's what I believe. I don't think he's bad (but at times I've been annoyed and dropped a 'Stafford sucks' comment, I'm a fan, sue me), but I don't think he's all that good either. He has some wonderful attributes, but he's got a lot of problems. My favorite word is serviceable. I think he can potentially get it done with all kinds of talent around him (I can't say that he will get it done, because frankly he hasn't done much yet and neither have the lions). But I won't let him off the hook simply because he goes 11-5 against a lot of crap teams. He gets paid to be elite, and since he's not, he's hurting this team by his non-elite play yet elite-level pay. If we can agree on that much, then I say we are on the same page. The QB position has the most affect on how the team performs. The Lions have plenty of talent around Stafford now. Stafford has to make all of those players better and in my opinion, he doesn't do that. If it is true that he's making all of these players better, then I'd be worried that this is as good as it gets.

I think he's better than Harrington. I thought the comment earlier was comparing one aspect of Harrington or a mix of Harrington and another QB. I think he's better than just about every QB we have had here since I've been alive, but so what. That isn't really saying much honestly. That just means we've had nothing but garbage for QBs here for 30+ years lol. I think my current pair of running shoes are the best shoes I've ever had. They were only 40 bucks at Kohls. Not saying much, since I don't know what a 200 dollar pair of running shoes feels like.

I want to see this team finally do well. I'm excited for this playoff game, but I'm also reserved because of the way I view this team as overrated. Not worried about the defense, just the offense.

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You guys are cracking me up though. Gettin a tizzy fit over a post. LMAO

The true troll test. I'm glad you admitted it. Go back to Dallas and watch them go Sleepless In Seattle.

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Stafford is the 9th highest paid QB and only $600k ahead of the 10th highest paid, Alex Smith. He's not exactly paid like an elite QB.

On a side note, this thread makes me want to submit elite to Lake Superior State for their banished words list.

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And as long as my Happy Feet Harington post is getting so much time on the board, I might as well double down on it.

Someone on another site posted wins and losses for Happy Feet and Staffy. It was about a year ago or so, so I don't remember the exact numbers it said something like Joey had like 19 wins and Staffy had 20 something wins in about the same amount of games.

I think it was 25? So Staffy is clearly better but I think he's much, actually most of the problem with our offense.

I can't stand by those numbers but he was pretty sure of himself. I'm sure someone could go look it up if they felt like it. I don't feel like it.

You guys are cracking me up though. Gettin a tizzy fit over a post. LMAO

Troll.

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