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kgeorge78

Stafford .... Would you trade him for ???

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So then we can agree that even including this year, the team's record against other good teams over the past several years, has been atrocious. Which means this 11-5 team is vastly overrated.

We have different definitions of 'vastly' my friend. The TEAMS defense has been spectacular. They deserved the 11 wins and should have had at least one more. 11/12 win teams in the NFL are VERY rarely 'vastly overrated'.

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Stafford's strength is obviously his arm strength. He has plenty of weaknesses but arm stands out to me as one of his best strengths.

That said, his touch is terrible, imo. He can not seem to put a touch on the ball to make it an easy catch. I can't count the times he's missed RBs in the flat or screen plays. He just does not have that touch. We saw touch from Kellen Moore in preseason.

This isn't mean to be a comparison of Moore to Staff but from a touch passer to a rocket of an arm passer. Both have plusses and minuses.

There is NO way that Moore hits Tate in England v Falcons when he got behind the safety. No way. I think it was a year ago when Staff inserted the football into CJ chest cavity against the Cards on an inside slant that I think went for a TD. I think it was Peterson couldn't believe he didn't pick that pass but it was just drilled in there. Staff makes those plays; Moore does not.

But to me, the majority of the passes in our offense are short and needs touch. Staff doesn't do a great job of throwing a catchable ball. Statisticians call it a drop if the receiver touches the ball, iirc. That's just a bunch of crap. No way that should be the standard. "if the receiver touches the ball, he should catch it" sounds good, but its not realistic. But having our receivers drop so many balls over Staff's career starts to point the finger at him.

So there's my Staff hate of day post. But I'm still a die hard Lions fan. Deal with it.

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......(minus Romo who is not good IMO)......

Have you seen Romo play this year? He should finish in the top 3 for NFL MVP.

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It's a good thing we put together a top ranked D this year or Stafford would prolly have another 5-11 season to add to his resume.

Yeah they should put Orlovsky in, or hell put in Moore. They lost all 5 games this year because of Stafford and won the 11 by some miracle.

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Yeah they should put Orlovsky in, or hell put in Moore. They lost all 5 games this year because of Stafford and won the 11 by some miracle.

Nice reply, but you don't refute what I posted.

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Stafford's strength is obviously his arm strength. He has plenty of weaknesses but arm stands out to me as one of his best strengths.

That said, his touch is terrible, imo. He can not seem to put a touch on the ball to make it an easy catch. I can't count the times he's missed RBs in the flat or screen plays. He just does not have that touch. We saw touch from Kellen Moore in preseason.

This isn't mean to be a comparison of Moore to Staff but from a touch passer to a rocket of an arm passer. Both have plusses and minuses.

There is NO way that Moore hits Tate in England v Falcons when he got behind the safety. No way. I think it was a year ago when Staff inserted the football into CJ chest cavity against the Cards on an inside slant that I think went for a TD. I think it was Peterson couldn't believe he didn't pick that pass but it was just drilled in there. Staff makes those plays; Moore does not.

But to me, the majority of the passes in our offense are short and needs touch. Staff doesn't do a great job of throwing a catchable ball. Statisticians call it a drop if the receiver touches the ball, iirc. That's just a bunch of crap. No way that should be the standard. "if the receiver touches the ball, he should catch it" sounds good, but its not realistic. But having our receivers drop so many balls over Staff's career starts to point the finger at him.

So there's my Staff hate of day post. But I'm still a die hard Lions fan. Deal with it.

Accepting that this is not a comparison of Staff/Moore (which of course there is none) but an exploration of velocity vs. touch I think you make a good point here.

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Suh comes back, they should be fine.

Suh hits the highway, they will not be fine.

I think that's a big part of the puzzle of course, but there are many other questions that will determine whether this team will win in 2015 or not...will they be able to win against winning teams in 2015 where they failed in 2014 (they will be facing more of them in 2015)? Will they be able to fix the OL? Will they be able to fix the running game? Will CJ be healthy?

These are the kinds of things that a quality organization needs to contend with year-in/year-out in order to succeed consistently in the NFL. If the Lions FO doesn't contend with them successfully in the off-season, then Stafford will not be able to make up for their failure single-handedly. No QB on Earth can do that.

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I don't think that is the only reason the Raiders sucked, but that is neither here nor there. I agree that it typically doesn't work out well, this all stemmed because I didn't know if we were "trading" Stafford for someone to help us win this year or to continue to build a franchise around. I should have assumed that original poster meant to build a franchise around considering he left out Manning and Brees, but he doesn't seem to post much so I asked for clarification. My argument was never focused on what type of trades are better, simply stated that teams every year in every sport make trades that potentially sacrifice long term success in an effort to win now.

I didn't mean build a franchise as much as I mean take as QB for the new few years. Maybe 3 or 4 years?

I strongly feel Manning and Brees are toast.... Brady is ageless and I would trade Stafford for Brady in a Lions Uniform for just one game..

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......I strongly feel Manning and Brees are toast......

[table=width: 500, class: outer_border, align: center]

[tr]

[td][/td]

[td]QBRat[/td]

[td]Comp[/td]

[td]Att[/td]

[td]Pct[/td]

[td]Yards[/td]

[td]TD[/td]

[td]Int[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Manning[/td]

[td]101.5[/td]

[td]395[/td]

[td]597[/td]

[td]66.2[/td]

[td]4727[/td]

[td]39[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Brees[/td]

[td]97[/td]

[td]456[/td]

[td]659[/td]

[td]69.2[/td]

[td]4952[/td]

[td]33[/td]

[td]17[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Stafford[/td]

[td]85.7[/td]

[td]363[/td]

[td]602[/td]

[td]60.3[/td]

[td]4257[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

If you feel that Manning and Brees are toast, how do you feel about Stafford?

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I'm guessing he meant that they'll rapidly decline from this point...

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[table=width: 500, class: outer_border, align: center]

[tr]

[td][/td]

[td]QBRat[/td]

[td]Comp[/td]

[td]Att[/td]

[td]Pct[/td]

[td]Yards[/td]

[td]TD[/td]

[td]Int[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Manning[/td]

[td]101.5[/td]

[td]395[/td]

[td]597[/td]

[td]66.2[/td]

[td]4727[/td]

[td]39[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Brees[/td]

[td]97[/td]

[td]456[/td]

[td]659[/td]

[td]69.2[/td]

[td]4952[/td]

[td]33[/td]

[td]17[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Stafford[/td]

[td]85.7[/td]

[td]363[/td]

[td]602[/td]

[td]60.3[/td]

[td]4257[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

If you feel that Manning and Brees are toast, how do you feel about Stafford?

have you seen manning throw a ball in the past few months??

Brees has always been a stat whore. He looked Terrible this season. not the same qb he was a few years ago...

Thrown that O Line from Denver in front of Stafford he might have better numbers.

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Stafford's strength is obviously his arm strength. He has plenty of weaknesses but arm stands out to me as one of his best strengths.

That said, his touch is terrible, imo. He can not seem to put a touch on the ball to make it an easy catch. I can't count the times he's missed RBs in the flat or screen plays. He just does not have that touch. We saw touch from Kellen Moore in preseason.

This isn't mean to be a comparison of Moore to Staff but from a touch passer to a rocket of an arm passer. Both have plusses and minuses.

There is NO way that Moore hits Tate in England v Falcons when he got behind the safety. No way. I think it was a year ago when Staff inserted the football into CJ chest cavity against the Cards on an inside slant that I think went for a TD. I think it was Peterson couldn't believe he didn't pick that pass but it was just drilled in there. Staff makes those plays; Moore does not.

But to me, the majority of the passes in our offense are short and needs touch. Staff doesn't do a great job of throwing a catchable ball. Statisticians call it a drop if the receiver touches the ball, iirc. That's just a bunch of crap. No way that should be the standard. "if the receiver touches the ball, he should catch it" sounds good, but its not realistic. But having our receivers drop so many balls over Staff's career starts to point the finger at him.

So there's my Staff hate of day post. But I'm still a die hard Lions fan. Deal with it.

Good WRs don't drop balls from Stafford. Tate came in and had no problem catching Stafford's passes. Burleson didn't have a problem either. Most of Calvin's drops come because of frequency of targets and being targeted in traffic so often. Guys who drop balls are guys like Pettigrew,Durham and Bush, who are going to drop balls from anyone.

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If Calvin doesn't get hurt last year, Stafford is probably finishing his 3rd year out of 4 making the playoffs. As it is, he's made the playoffs in 4 years more than we've made it in a decade(no that shouldn't fully be the standard, but still). I think driving him out of town. Like I keep saying, he'll have a nice Phil Rivers career. If you can upgrade that, go for it, but don't take it for granted like way too many of you are doing.

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He's the second coming of Joey Harrington IMO.

If you are serious, which I can't believe, then you have lost the small amount of credibility you may have had.

If you're joking, it's pretty funny. Kind of like saying Millen was a great GM.

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I didn't mean build a franchise as much as I mean take as QB for the new few years. Maybe 3 or 4 years?

I strongly feel Manning and Brees are toast.... Brady is ageless and I would trade Stafford for Brady in a Lions Uniform for just one game..

If Brady played his entire career with the Lions, he would have ZERO Championships. If Stafford played for New England, he would have one or two Championships by now. It's the TEAM around him/them as well as the system. There's a reason teams like New England draft near the bottom every year but are consistent contenders every year. If Barry Sanders played for Dallas, do you question whether he would have won a Super Bowl or two?

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If Brady played his entire career with the Lions, he would have ZERO Championships. If Stafford played for New England, he would have one or two Championships by now. It's the TEAM around him/them as well as the system. There's a reason teams like New England draft near the bottom every year but are consistent contenders every year. If Barry Sanders played for Dallas, do you question whether he would have won a Super Bowl or two?

I don't see other NFL QBs consistently miss wide open passes like Stafford does. If Brady played in Detroit, he would at least put the ball where it should be when he passes it.

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the debate about what a known 'elite' QB would go with the Lion's O-line is a good one. Hopefully once Riola is gone they will put together a solid run blocking, pass protecting line and we will fine out what Stafford can do behind it. If he trusted his protection more he might take the time to step into more throws properly and start making those touch passes. Just as devil's advocate, I would argue that P Manning, acknowledged as an all time great - is a QB you can still make look pretty bad if you harry him enough.

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If Brady played his entire career with the Lions, he would have ZERO Championships. If Stafford played for New England, he would have one or two Championships by now. It's the TEAM around him/them as well as the system. There's a reason teams like New England draft near the bottom every year but are consistent contenders every year. If Barry Sanders played for Dallas, do you question whether he would have won a Super Bowl or two?

Yeah, I don't buy this for a second. Stafford with NE would still be the same Stafford who regularly overthrows his targets in the short and medium range passing game.

Could Brady take this years Detroit Lions team, with this defense, with Calvin, with Tate, with Bell, with Bush, with Riddick, and go 14-2, winning a Super Bowl? That I could believe.

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If Brady played his entire career with the Lions, he would have ZERO Championships. If Stafford played for New England, he would have one or two Championships by now. It's the TEAM around him/them as well as the system. There's a reason teams like New England draft near the bottom every year but are consistent contenders every year. If Barry Sanders played for Dallas, do you question whether he would have won a Super Bowl or two?

Yes, there is a reason why teams drafting low every year still win super bowls. It's because they have elite QBs that make average players good. Stafford doesn't make anybody better. I think if Brady were on this team, with a good defense, our offense would be much improved from this and we'd be a lot more confident in this team contending for a SB. Why? Because Brady makes everybody else better, and holds people accountable.

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Yes, there is a reason why teams drafting low every year still win super bowls. It's because they have elite QBs that make average players good. Stafford doesn't make anybody better. I think if Brady were on this team, with a good defense, our offense would be much improved from this and we'd be a lot more confident in this team contending for a SB. Why? Because Brady makes everybody else better, and holds people accountable.

Tate only had the best year of his career by catching about 40 more passes and 400 more yards in his first year with Stafford but Stafford didn't make anyone better.

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Tate only had the best year of his career by catching about 40 more passes and 400 more yards in his first year with Stafford but Stafford didn't make anyone better.

He was never the first option like he was with CJ out.

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