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roarintiger1

Are you satisfied with the Tiger's current team?

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If I was going to criticize tater's post, I would have started with his ridiculous assertion that it doesn't matter if Avila were the most effective hitting catcher, it would still make him an ineffective hitter and only speaks to how inept catchers are at hitting.

Somebody has to catch. Unless we are allowed to put up a catching screen behind the plate and bat a second DH, if you have a guy that is average or better compared to the other catchers in the league offensively, then you are not losing ground to other teams in the league at the catcher position.

The alternative to Avila is another catcher, and he possibly -> probably would be a less effective hitter than Alex.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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I don't care if you criticize the Tigers. People do it here all the time. Nathan sucks, well yeah that's pretty much a given. Some are upset with the porcello deal and I understand that. But, we are allowed to refute claims and argue -- it's kind of the point -- so even though Managers, GM or coach doesn't question it doesn't mean its right. Heck in the link I provided Billy Beane questions it.

Billy Beane's opinions as a GM do not count because he does not win in the play-offs.

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Billy Beane's opinions as a GM do not count because he does not win in the play-offs.

Yeah but he was the focus of a movie, so he's got that going for him.

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Actually, what you said was that nobody should question the importance of the closer role simply because you've never heard a player, GM or coach question it and they know way more about it than anyone else here. That's a classic lazy argument. So Keepleyland presented factual data to support the claim that it's vastly overrated and now you're resorting to personal attacks because that's all you have left.

And now you turn and play the victim card after you've been a complete dick to anyone disagreeing with you. I don't like doing this but if you're going to keep criticizing people's learning/writing skills, you yourself should first learn the difference between they're, their, and there, as well as your and you're because you've been butchering them this entire thread.

Oh I think you like doing it plenty.

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Oh I think you like doing it plenty.

If someone knows I'm joking I will, like with MB and his comma instance. But no, I don't go around correcting people on here for those. At least not that I remember. I just find it too ironic to ignore when someone doesn't know those and criticizes other people's writing and learning skills.

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The Tigers are awful and this board sucks and nobody posts here anymore and everyone hates me, but I'm going to keep coming anyway.

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Thanks Keepleyland. I know that we've been over and over this but "closer" doesn't exist. Mariano was a "closer" but that doesn't mean that all the other teams have one. What they should aspire to have is an "ace reliever" who comes in at any point, at the highest-leverage situation, like Gossage or Guillermo Hernandez.

The most maddening thing is that this "bullpen roles" thing has only been going on for about 23 years now - not 100 years, just 23. The "8th inning" role only appeared in the early '90's, which was only a couple of years after the "closer" role became entrenched as a 9th-inning job. It's so maddening, and yet it has become mainstream. When a manager or pitching coach gets fired now, it's not unusual to hear the bullpen guys justify it by saying "guys want to know their roles". What? Your role? YOUR ROLE? Your f'in' role is to get batters out, for as long as you can, at whatever point in the game you are inserted. Geez. Unbelievable.

I would of given you a save for this sentence, but it wasn't the last sentence. Therefore, you only get a hold.

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Thanks Keepleyland. I know that we've been over and over this but "closer" doesn't exist. Mariano was a "closer" but that doesn't mean that all the other teams have one. What they should aspire to have is an "ace reliever" who comes in at any point, at the highest-leverage situation, like Gossage or Guillermo Hernandez.

The most maddening thing is that this "bullpen roles" thing has only been going on for about 23 years now - not 100 years, just 23. The "8th inning" role only appeared in the early '90's, which was only a couple of years after the "closer" role became entrenched as a 9th-inning job. It's so maddening, and yet it has become mainstream. When a manager or pitching coach gets fired now, it's not unusual to hear the bullpen guys justify it by saying "guys want to know their roles". What? Your role? YOUR ROLE? Your f'in' role is to get batters out, for as long as you can, at whatever point in the game you are inserted. Geez. Unbelievable.

I feel like it's a bit of an ego thing. If I'm a reliever, I'd rather be a diffuser, no matter what the inning is. Getting out of a bases loaded, 1-out jam would be far more rewarding than coming in with 0 outs and nobody on. Especially in the 9th inning with a 2- or 3-run lead. But roles allow players to earn more money than they're worth now so that probably won't go away.

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The Tigers are awful and this board sucks and nobody posts here anymore and everyone hates me, but I'm going to keep coming anyway.

Agreed on all counts.

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Back on topic. The team looks good--maybe a nip and tuck still, but well poised to win the Central and evaluate any potential upgrades at the trade deadline in anticipation of a pennant race and/or the playoffs.

Signing Scherzer makes things even more solid, with Simon or Greene heading to the pen. We'll love his contract for two seasons, but likely dread the remaining 4-5 years of the deal.

Lots of "ifs" heading into 2015 (Verlander, J.D., Nathan, Iglesias), but opportunities for pleasant surprises, i.e., Castellanos, McCann, Greene, Gose.

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Gose is a good fielder, I don't think anybody can question that.

And you really lose credibility when you say if a guy is the best hitter, he can't hit. And how many teams have bench players that could be starters? there is a reason they are part-time/bench players.

And for closer: The save is the only situation in which a manager makes his decisions based on a statistic rather than what makes the most competitive sense for his team. The only comparable is when a manager stays with a struggling starter with a big lead so he can get through the fifth inning and qualify for a win, but this occurs rarely. Managers, however, routinely bring in their closers just because it is a "save situation" rather than a situation in which the opponent is truly threatening. It's ridiculous. Managers feel the need to please their closers -- and their closer's agents -- by getting them cheap saves to pad their stats and their bank accounts.

Check out this study by Dave Smith of Retrosheet. He researched late-inning leads over 73 seasons, from 1944 to 2003, and an additional 14 seasons prior to that span. What he found is that the winning percentage for teams who enter the ninth inning with a lead has remained virtually unchanged over the decades. Regardless of the pitching strategy, teams entering the ninth inning with a lead win roughly 95 percent of the time. That was the exact rate in 1901 and that was the rate 100 seasons later. In fact, the rate has varied merely from a high of 96.7 percent in 1909 to a low of 92.5 percent in 1941.

Caple: The most overrated position in sports - ESPN Page 2

I wholeheartedly believe that the closer position is overrated, but in saving only 83% of his opportunities, Nathan falls well below even the worst year. So while the position may be overrated, Nathan is still significantly below average at an overrated, albeit important, position.

Now, to be fair I'm not 100% clear on what the premise of the argument was, so I may be preaching to the choir.

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I am wondering why the Tigers aren't actively pursuing signing James Shields? His states are nice and even though Max Scherzer has been a fantastic pitcher for the last few seasons, James Shields stats aren't far behind.

E.R.A.: Shields 3.21, Max 3.15

I.P.: Shields 227, Max 220

S.O.: Shields 180, Max 252 . . .

He would probably sign for much less that we would have to pay Scherzer, and Boras would not have any hold over DD and Mr. I. And he would probably sign on for under six years if the yearly wage is attractive.

Does anyone know how many innings per game he averaged in 2014?

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Wonder if the Tigers could offer five years for $125 million?

AND, we could offer him some decent offensive numbers to help him out!

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At this point, I think it all depends on who Ilitch wants more than whether it fits a budget or whether it makes good baseball sense.

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James Shields is overrated.

The most overrated phrase in all of sports.

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I could make a case that Shields is the most underrated player in baseball if he only gets half as much as Max.

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I could make a case that Shields is the most underrated player in baseball if he only gets half as much as Max.

Go on....

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Over the last two years, Max has posted a 12 WAR versus just 8.2 for James (which is still very good). However, over the course of his career James has been a MUCH more consistent pitcher who rarely gets hurt and always pitches a lot of innings (8 straight years of 200+). Max has been great but I don't think he'll sustain what he's done the last two years, and really looks like an injury waiting to happen. If you push WAR out to 4 years, Max leads only by 17.7 to 16.7, which is a lot closer to what I'd expect moving forward. If it only takes 120 to get James versus 200+ for Max, there's a ton of value there. It's also a far less risky contract.

The only problem is, the Tigers put a lot of value in star power, and right now Max probably has a lot more value to them simply for the name and the fanbase he already has here, so who knows.

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Over the last two years, Max has posted a 12 WAR versus just 8.2 for James (which is still very good). However, over the course of his career James has been a MUCH more consistent pitcher who rarely gets hurt and always pitches a lot of innings (8 straight years of 200+). Max has been great but I don't think he'll sustain what he's done the last two years, and really looks like an injury waiting to happen. If you push WAR out to 4 years, Max leads only by 17.7 to 16.7, which is a lot closer to what I'd expect moving forward. If it only takes 120 to get James versus 200+ for Max, there's a ton of value there. It's also a far less risky contract.

The only problem is, the Tigers put a lot of value in star power, and right now Max probably has a lot more value to them simply for the name and the fanbase he already has here, so who knows.

Shields is also 3 years older, so there is another reason that he would be acquired on a shorter deal requiring less per season.

Identical career WHIP (1.220 vs 1.219), Shields has averaged 19 more innings per season, Scherzer's career FIP has been lower (3.39 vs 3.77).

I think either pitcher gives them the lead position for the division for now.

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I think it's lazy to go with Assmus...if you're going to "go there" at all you need to be "all in" and call him "Assmunch".

Assmus is a bit half-aused

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Boy, I missed a lot with a day of traveling, and much of what I was going to say has already been addressed. I did just want to point out that Goes is great in CF because I have never heard MLB players,managers and GMs say that he isn't.

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