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Rosenthal: Tigers aquire Alfredo Simon

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We are definitely winning the central.

Bigglesworth booked it, so yes, it isn't even in question.

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that says more about the recent past and how horrible the tigers have been at developing talent since the late 70s early 80s.

i think theyre at the end of their window because they have failed to develop many young players.

No, I'd say it has more to do with it is hard to win 90 - 95 games in the majors, and I think they are going to do that in 2014.

I don't know what their window is, to be honest.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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97, 106, 100 OPS+ the last 3 years

33 years old

I know 2nd base isn't a premium offensive position, but I'm not sure Kinsler really deserves the benefit of the doubt as a good player

Defense matters.

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Simon is 34 and wasn't a SP in '12 and '13 therefore he sucks.

Well, there is some logic there. His high FIP and low BABIP are also indicators that his only year as a major league starter was lucky. We can only hope that he's mastered the ability to induce weak contact. Possible, but seems unlikely.

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True, but don't you walk away with the feeling that we all felt in 06" has been mostly squandered?

Honestly, no.

I think 2006 was so great because it was so unexpected and Yankee tears are the most delicious of all, but I am excited for this upcoming season, same as I was in 2007. Both seasons I thought they would win the division.

EDIT: For reference, I used to hope they would play competent baseball when I went to the ballpark 15 years ago.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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This franchise is in better shape today than it has been in the vast majority of my life.

Perspective.

Very true. But the sum of today's trades don't make the Tigers better.

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I'm not trying to be snarky here, but why? This is the least optimistic about a team I've been since....2006? So I hope it works out that well.

They still have a terrible bullpen.

They are now down to two good starting pitchers, one of whom is a big injury risk, unless Verlander returns to form, and they have little to no depth in that department at the moment.

The offense has a very good 3-4-5 (If JD Martinez is for real) but no depth and no one that can really get on base. It's also now counting on Iglesias to be healthy.

They have no prospects ready to step in and help this year, or any quality minor league depth that I can see, unless they snatch another Martinez off the scrap heap.

They're bad at catcher, and one foul tip away from being disastrous.

2nd base is old and struggled last year.

SS is a huge ?

3B is a huge ?

LF is risky even though I'm a martinez believer

CF is likely to be bad

I don't see this as being a particularly good team right now. Maybe good enough to win the AL Central, but far from a prohibitive favorite.

It would help a lot if they brought Max back.

This is a pretty pessimistic view of things.

Our offense was pretty good last year and adding Cespedes while making Davis into a platoon mate makes us similar or better compared to last year IMO. I think platooning C will help us as well and Cabrera and Castellanos will likely put up better numbers.

SS and CF defense have been huge upgraded.

Greene is a cheaper, long term, cost controlled version of

I think our bullpen sucking is subjective at best. Nathan gets a chance to show he can bounce back, they spent 7 million dollars on a damn good reliever in Soria, AA was great in the 7th last year, Hanrahan should be ready to go and Rondon could potentially help as well. Wilson should give us some depth towards the front end. We could use a veteran lefty, but at least one of Krol,Hardy,Lobstein or Ryan should be able to hold down one of the lefty slots. We have a few internal righty candidates to help too, like Mercedes,Nesbitt and Putkonen.

They are very thin in terms of prospects now, I'll give you that. That's why I said we are set up well for 2015, but not necessarily beyond. We do have Collins and Perez for potential depth, Moya on the way and Hill a bit beyond that. Mccann is coming up to help and they seem to like Farmer. Lobstein might be the 5th starter when Simon falters or leaves.

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Very true. But the sum of today's trades don't make the Tigers better.

No argument. I wasn't keen to get Cespedes and Simon is, well, disappointing.

But the Tigers will win the division. Book it.

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Our offense was pretty good last year and adding Cespedes while making Davis into a platoon mate makes us similar or better compared to last year IMO. I think platooning C will help us as well and Cabrera and Castellanos will likely put up better numbers.

Do we know they will platoon C and CF?

It is what I would do, but I'm not the guy filling out the line-up card.

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I don't think the Tigers are strong favorites to win the AL Central at this point. They still have an edge, but unlike the last couple of years there is very little room for error. Of course, there is still a lot of time left in the off-season.

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Do we know they will platoon C and CF?

It is what I would do, but I'm not the guy filling out the line-up card.

Not sure how ended you play CF. I certainly wouldn't think they would do some rotation with Martinez and Cespedes sitting.

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I don't think the Tigers are strong favorites to win the AL Central at this point. They still have an edge, but unlike the last couple of years there is very little room for error. Of course, there is still a lot of time left in the off-season.

The Tigers will win the division. Book it.

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I am the one who complained the Tigers window has closed.

The combination of these 3 trades.......and I still think that is the case. The improvement from the White Sox, Indians, and Royals next year is going to poach 4-6 wins in cumulative as well.

We have a very old team now, with a lot of players that have seen their peak years. Cabrera, Martinez, Verlander, Sanchez, Kinsler....and injuries are going to be more common.

And DD is up to his old bad habits.....trades Fister and Smyly because he doesn't value their 89-91 mph arms. Doesn't ever go after Neshek, Leake, or Latos....because they throw 88-92. But Alfredo Simon averaged 94 mph on his fastball last year.....get him. Hanrahan, Rondon, even Robbie Ray and Shane Greene.....hard throwers overvalued by DD.

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Not sure how ended you play CF. I certainly wouldn't think they would do some rotation with Martinez and Cespedes sitting.

My question is more the catcher position, but I can easily see them splitting time between Davis and Gose 50/50 rather than a platoon, especially if Gose struggles early.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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Very true. But the sum of today's trades don't make the Tigers better.

I think they are slightly better.

Porcello projected at 2.7 wins over 188 IP

Simon projected at 0.8 over 129 so something like 1.2 over equivalent innings.

They lost 1.5 wins from pitching.

Cespedes projected at 3.4 wins.

I don't think what cespedes replaced was going to be worth close to 2 wins.

On balance, I think we are about a win better.

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I am the one who complained the Tigers window has closed.

The combination of these 3 trades.......and I still think that is the case. The improvement from the White Sox, Indians, and Royals next year is going to poach 4-6 wins in cumulative as well.

We have a very old team now, with a lot of players that have seen their peak years. Cabrera, Martinez, Verlander, Sanchez, Kinsler....and injuries are going to be more common.

And DD is up to his old bad habits.....trades Fister and Smyly because he doesn't value their 89-91 mph arms. Doesn't ever go after Neshek, Leake, or Latos....because they throw 88-92. But Alfredo Simon averaged 94 mph on his fastball last year.....get him. Hanrahan, Rondon, even Robbie Ray and Shane Greene.....hard throwers overvalued by DD.

The Tigers will win the division. Book it.

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It's always a bad sign when the other teams Message Board universally loves a trade thier GM made. :( Not a fan of the Simon trade, love the Porcello trade though. Wilson isn't very good, but the other propspect they got could be a good bullpen piece.

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I think they are slightly better.

Porcello projected at 2.7 wins over 188 IP

Simon projected at 0.8 over 129 so something like 1.2 over equivalent innings.

They lost 1.5 wins from pitching.

Cespedes projected at 3.4 wins.

I don't think what cespedes replaced was going to be worth close to 2 wins.

On balance, I think we are about a win better.

Porcello is on the way up and Simon likely on the way down the career slopes. Cespedes over the other in house OF options (Collins, Moya, etc), no arguement. I think I still prefer a season of Porcello over a season of Cespedes, but I can definitely understand the premise of exchanging a starter for an outfielder.

If Greene can pull a Fister, Verlander returns to some shadow of himself, Sanchez can stay healthy, and Price pitches like he is in a contract season,.... Using Simon in the bullpen might be better than using him as a SP. I'm not sure a sudden transition later in a career from RP to SP is anything more than a complete surprise.

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Cant wait until dombrowski is "surprised" that the fanbase is upset, just like he was surprised we were all upset after the fister trade.

They won't be. Simon's W-L and ERA last year will be easy to sell to the masses and Cespedes won the home run hitting contest.

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I definitely like Cespedes,WIlson,Green and Speier over Ray,Leyba and Porcello.

I'm guessing they see Perez and Machado as pretty similar to Suarez. I'd prefer to still have Crawford or Thompson and maybe Adames or Leyba in our system.

Getting Moncado signed would go a LONG way

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I think they are slight favorites in the AL central. I'd feel better if they added another good SP and could move Simon to the bullpen. Or, just revoke the Simon trade altogether.

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LOL, I was just being silly.

Your conversion to mb/Cecil is complete.

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