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DetroitCity313

2015 Detroit Pistons Lottery Thread

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They've won one game since he got here. His game doesnt work with monroe/drummond, or at least makes it very dependent on our other "shooters" making shots (a lot of whom were also traded for players who cant shoot).

We were on a roll and a borderline playoff team before the trade and now were probably the worst team in the league. How did we NOT get fleeced? For the "right" to sign jackson to an overpaid contract in the offseason?

Whoop dee dang doo.

Ideally, a point guard's job is to get the ball to players in a position where they can score. So when Tolliver, KCP, Meeks and Prince aren't making shots this team most likely is going to be in trouble. The Pistons were getting some career-best stretches of basketball from BJ and DJ, and is now getting a career-worst stretch out of RJ. SVG has lost the variance game this season, but are you really going to be THAT mad about getting a lottery pick instead in what may be the deepest lottery in a decade? Do you really think the Pistons were a true playoff team with DJ as the starting PG?

Again, please name me a point guard who has lead his team to anything after getting traded mid-season. The Celts were 6-5 after trading for Thomas, that's about as good as it gets. BTW, they have won three-straight with him out of the lineup hurt--so its not really just about Thomas there. The fact that Evan Turner is probably playing some of the best all-around basketball of his career, and that he gives them a solid facilitator from a wing position, makes a huge difference with a scoring PG like Thomas or combo guard like Smart. Translation? We need one of those to be successful with a shooting pg long-term.

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I think the Pistons problem isn't so much whether anyone got fleeced, as that 1) they just don't have much time to work these guys together, and 2) any assumption about a player's shooting percentage getting significantly better is a crapshoot. Things have worked out in such a way that they are going to have to make some decisions based on less than adequate data and that's bad place for bad team to be.

Being a basketball GM is definitely a lot harder than it used to be 20 years ago.

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They've won one game since he got here. His game doesnt work with monroe/drummond, or at least makes it very dependent on our other "shooters" making shots (a lot of whom were also traded for players who cant shoot).

We were on a roll and a borderline playoff team before the trade and now were probably the worst team in the league. How did we NOT get fleeced? For the "right" to sign jackson to an overpaid contract in the offseason?

Whoop dee dang doo.

You know GD well that the Pistons hot stretch coincided with Jennings playing well -> extremely well. He then got injured.

What would the Pistons record be if they did not make the deal?

I highly doubt they would have maintained the pace they were on prior to Jennings getting hurt.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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They've won one game since he got here. His game doesnt work with monroe/drummond, or at least makes it very dependent on our other "shooters" making shots (a lot of whom were also traded for players who cant shoot).

We were on a roll and a borderline playoff team before the trade and now were probably the worst team in the league. How did we NOT get fleeced? For the "right" to sign jackson to an overpaid contract in the offseason?

Whoop dee dang doo.

Who cares if they were MAYBE a bottom 2 playoff team? They were going nowhere anyway especially without Jennings.

The whole point of this deal was to look at the big picture even if this season needed to be sacrificed. Jackson was putting up big numbers with Westbrook and Durant out, Augustine and Singler are backups. It was a worthwhile gamble (even if you want to call giving up 2 bench players a gamble) and thus far, it doesn't look good.

In any event, it's too early to call this trade a bust. Jackson has more potential to become a good starter than either of the two players they traded away. He still has that potential, just needs more time to adjust to the system and his teammates.

If worse comes to worse and they decided to pass on him this offseason, they have plenty of cap space to work with. Of course that depends on whether or not they sign Monroe as well.

It's sure to be a challenging offseason and a true measure of his GMing abilities.

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I'll go ahead and state they wouldn't even be a bottom 2 play-off team without the deal.

They couldn't afford any fall-off to make the play-offs, and the injury basically killed any chance of that.

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You know GD well that the Pistons hot stretch coincided with Jennings playing well -> extremely well. He then got injured.

What would the Pistons record be if they did not make the deal?

I highly doubt they would have maintained the pace they were on prior to Jennings getting hurt.

And you know GD well that jackson has been awful.

and i also assume you know GD well that the team has been much much worse since the trade deadline.

look, if svg's master plan was that they were going to tank for the future, then i am impressed with his foresight. However, i think he thought jackson and prince would make the team better. And he was oh so wrong that it makes me question his player evaluation going forward.

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Jackson has been awful. I am not trying to suggest otherwise.

All I am saying is:

1. The Pistons play-off chances pretty much died with Jennings getting hurt,

2. Augustine and Singler weren't going to fetch much on the trade market, and

3. Jackson is exactly the type of player the Pistons should gamble on given where they are at.

WRT 3., the gamble hasn't worked out thus far. I'd say it is unlikely to work out based on early returns. But even if time proves it didn't work out at all, I don't see how you can say trading two bench pieces for a potential starting PG with no long term salary commitment as getting fleeced.

Conversely, if Jackson were more of a sure thing they wouldn't have gotten him for only that.

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Jackson has been awful. I am not trying to suggest otherwise.

All I am saying is:

1. The Pistons play-off chances pretty much died with Jennings getting hurt,

2. Augustine and Singler weren't going to fetch much on the trade market, and

3. Jackson is exactly the type of player the Pistons should gamble on given where they are at.

WRT 3., the gamble hasn't worked out thus far. I'd say it is unlikely to work out based on early returns. But even if time proves it didn't work out at all, I don't see how you can say trading two bench pieces for a potential starting PG with no long term salary commitment as getting fleeced.

Conversely, if Jackson were more of a sure thing they wouldn't have gotten him for only that.

I would rather have augustin on a $3m deal next year than have the possibility of matching the first offer for jackson. I dont think jackson works for this team as constructed and i think he is about to be massively overpaid.

i agree that singler and augustin arent much, but collectively with the way this team is constructed they are better than jackson. And having none of the three would be better than overpaying jackson like theyre talking about doing.

i think there are two plausible thought processes for this trade:

1) svg thinks jackson's skill set would immediately make the team better based on his pick and roll abilities in okc;

2) svg knows monroe is gone, the team wasnt going anywhere this year, and jackson will play better with his team as it will be constructed going forward because he wont need a pg who can shoot from long range.

i hope its #2.

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Jackson has been awful. I am not trying to suggest otherwise.

All I am saying is:

1. The Pistons play-off chances pretty much died with Jennings getting hurt,

2. Augustine and Singler weren't going to fetch much on the trade market, and

3. Jackson is exactly the type of player the Pistons should gamble on given where they are at.

WRT 3., the gamble hasn't worked out thus far. I'd say it is unlikely to work out based on early returns. But even if time proves it didn't work out at all, I don't see how you can say trading two bench pieces for a potential starting PG with no long term salary commitment as getting fleeced.

Conversely, if Jackson were more of a sure thing they wouldn't have gotten him for only that.

Church

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I would argue in a PnR heavy offense like SVG runs, a PG absolutely has to have a decent/respectable 3PT shot.

Making opponents cover both the jumper and drive is what makes his offense work. Take away the need to guard one or the other and things start to sputter.

If the defender goes over the screen, the PG drives and/or dumps it to the big diving to the hoop. If the defender goes under the screen, the PG punishes him with a 3PTA.

Now if the PG cant shoot the three, the defender will always go under the screen and let him shoot 28% from three. That takes away penetration and the big man rolling to the hoop.

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I would argue in a PnR heavy offense like SVG runs, a PG absolutely has to have a decent/respectable 3PT shot.

Making opponents cover both the jumper and drive is what makes his offense work. Take away the need to guard one or the other and things start to sputter.

If the defender goes over the screen, the PG drives and/or dumps it to the big diving to the hoop. If the defender goes under the screen, the PG punishes him with a 3PTA.

Now if the PG cant shoot the three, the defender will always go under the screen and let him shoot 28% from three. That takes away penetration and the big man rolling to the hoop.

Who will miss more threes next year: kcp or jackson?

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Who will miss more threes next year: kcp or jackson?

Jackson.

If you think KCP is a bad three point shooter, think about this. Jackson would have to improve his career 3PFG% by 5 points just to get to the same level as KCP.

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Jackson.

If you think KCP is a bad three point shooter, think about this. Jackson would have to improve his career 3PFG% by 5 points just to get to the same level as KCP.

Does TP know this? Somebody tell TP!

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Jackson.

If you think KCP is a bad three point shooter, think about this. Jackson would have to improve his career 3PFG% by 5 points just to get to the same level as KCP.

Jackson outshot KCP from 3 last year .339 vs .319.

Westbrook is only shooting .299 this season from 3 but is being talked about like he is the next coming of Jesus Shuttlesworth right now. We all saw what Jackson could do starting with Westbrook's squad, so perhaps we should judge Jackson when he's playing with personnel he's spent a training camp with? 20.2 PTS, 7.8 AST and 5.2 REB are not Westbrook 2015 numbers ( 27.5/8.4/7.3) but they are still very good numbers. Westbrook's 4.3 TO is such a monster number, at least when Magic averaged 4.6 he dropped 13.1 dimes per. But hey, at least that gets Westbrook into the same convo with Magic.

Edited by mickeyb105

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Jackson outshot KCP from 3 last year .339 vs .319.

Westbrook is only shooting .299 this season from 3 but is being talked about like he is the next coming of Jesus Shuttlesworth right now. We all saw what Jackson could do starting with Westbrook's squad, so perhaps we should judge Jackson when he's playing with personnel he's spent a training camp with? 20.2 PTS, 7.8 AST and 5.2 REB are not Westbrook 2015 numbers ( 27.5/8.4/7.3) but they are still very good numbers. Westbrook's 4.3 TO is such a monster number, at least when Magic averaged 4.6 he dropped 13.1 dimes per. But hey, at least that gets Westbrook into the same convo with Magic.

I'm shocked a third year player shot better than a rookie.

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Towns, Okafor, Mundiay and Russell will be the top 4 most likely. No particular order.

That leaves

Stanley Johnson, Kristaps Porzingis, Mario Hezonja, Cauley-Stein, Winslow, Oubre, Turner and Kaminsky.

Edited by Sydney_Fife

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Towns, Okafor, Mundiay and Russell will be the top 4 most likely. No particular order.

That leaves

Stanley Johnson, Kristaps Porzingis, Mario Hezonja, Cauley-Stein, Winslow, Oubre, Turner and Kaminsky.

Lots of talent here, even if a lot of it needs polish. I can't wait until these kids start going through the pre-draft gauntlet.

Consider me team Cauley-Stein, but would be happy with Kaminsky or Oubre.

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Not a fan of Hezonja for us. I get a Darko vibe. He doesn't even start for his team and people are saying it's because of the veteran factor again. I've heard this tale before...

Cauley-Stein is interesting, but only if you trade Drummond. They're basically both Tyson Chandler. Cauley-Stein could be better defensively, but they're both just put-back artists on offense.

Myles Turner looks like a reach where most mocks have him, but a guy that's described as LaMarcus Aldridge works for me if we lose Monroe and keep Drummond as is likely. Doesn't solve the SF problem, but you can address that in free agency using the cash left by Monroe.

I'll remind you all that I know nothing about college basketball and only start reading mock draft sites around this time of year to get my info, so I could be wrong on all of this.

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Cauley-Stein would make sense if they think Monroe is gone. Will need another big man in addition to a stretch 4 to solidify the paint

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Cauley-Stein would make sense if they think Monroe is gone. Will need another big man in addition to a stretch 4 to solidify the paint

But how does that fit with Drummond and Jackson? None of those players stretch the floor. Or were you thinking of Cauley-Stein as a backup center? If so, I'd argue that you don't spend a lottery pick on a guy who you hope to only play 15 minutes a night as a backup.

The only way I see him making sense is if you move Drummond since they're the same player. I'd be ok with that. Move Drummond to the impatient Knicks or Lakers franchise for their unprotected pick this year, their protected pick in 2017, and a player or two (maybe Hardaway?). Draft Russell or Mudiay, then take Cauley-Stein with our pick. Of course, if you're doing that then it also means you have a shot at Towns or Okafor, which might be the better pick at Center and then use your pick to go after a stretch 4 (Myles Turner) or a SF (Johnson, Oubre). Pick up the other position in free agency.

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