2015 Detroit Pistons Lottery Thread

[Deleterious 1,991]

I like Greg Monroe a lot, but with Andre's limitations you really need a big that can draw the defense out a bit to work alongside him. Sticking two guys who can't work more than five feet from the basket in the low blocks makes it hard for your guards to get to the basket

Such a terrible myth.

[Sydney_Fife 339]

Mario Hezonja. 6'8 wing that can shoot. I would link it but I'm on mobile as usual.

[DaBishop 55]

I say we draft the guy who is going to be the best NBA player over the next 10 years.

[DrWho17 13]

Woh, Pistons are putting together an aggressive run up the lottery. Somehow they need to end up in the top 5, looks like the projections after those guys really fall off, maybe even top 4.

Okafor/Towns/Muddiay/Russell/S Johnson, any of those guys.

[DrWho17 13]

Such a terrible myth.

Right, I'm thinking Drummond/Monroe is a pretty fearsome combo, when they are both on the floor they should dominate the boards on both ends, when on the offensive part we should have post up options from either side of the line, Drummond is really improving in the post, his hook is looking good.

Then the byproduct, is that when either guy goes to the bench the Pistons still have a good Center on the floor, it's just a good fit.

[Shinzaki 10]

Myth? Tut-tu my good man...our PG pretty much melted down against LA because they packed the lane...a much easier thing to do with two bigs five feet from the hoop. You need to have somebody that can shoot the ball...my preference is to have a big that can face the basket and hit a mid to long range jumper.

But then I have a bias towards teams like the Bad Boy Pisstons who worked that offense with Laimbeer and Bhudda and my all time favorite Portland teams with Walton working the high post and Lucas holding the low block . You don't HAVE to do things that way...I just think you maximize Andre if you complement his skills rather than duplicate them.

[Nastradamus 267]

You can't have 2 bigs on the floor who can't shoot with a PG who also can't shoot, I'd give you that. Put 3 shooters around Dre and Moose and you have a formula for success though.

[Deleterious 1,991]

Our PG melted down because he cant shoot and everyone just sags off of him. If he learns to shoot and guys have to start coming over the top of screens, his ability to penetrate will improve.

And the Pistons rarely have two bigs in the paint when the guard drives. Most of the guard penetration comes from the PnR and the pick man is almost always the PF or C.

[Shinzaki 10]

Let's just say our PG melted down because he's mentally weak and elave it at that. Re the Pistons...I think the bigs are clogging the middle more than you...but I tend to obsesss over that, so I'm willing to remain open to the possibilty that they aren't

[Mr. Bigglesworth 2,701]

The Pistons had excellent offensive efficiency numbers with Jennings, Monroe and Drummond on the floor this season.

That suggests to me the right point guard paired with those two can work, and work well.

[Deleterious 1,991]

Anyone wanting to check out Kaminsky, Wisconsin plays Michigan today at noon. Not 100% sure but I think it's on BTN.

[Gehringer_2 2,163]

Our PG melted down because he cant shoot and everyone just sags off of him. If he learns to shoot and guys have to start coming over the top of screens, his ability to penetrate will improve.

And the Pistons rarely have two bigs in the paint when the guard drives. Most of the guard penetration comes from the PnR and the pick man is almost always the PF or C.

yeah - it's not *our* guys clogging the middle, it's the whole D team since they don't have to guard anyone past 5'.

Taken overall, it seems weird that SVG used about every move he made prior to Jenning's injury trying to improve the team's outside shooting, but then apparently went right off his own playbook when Jennings went down and made moves that badly compounded the impact on team shooting that Jennings' loss created. I defended him before on the grounds that he tried to go with talent, but not so sure anymore now that the results are coming in.

[Buddha 688]

The inability of meeks and kcp to consistently hit shots is also killing this team. Adding jackson's terrible shooting has just made it worse.

[Sydney_Fife 339]

Having Butler and Prince playing small forward is a dagger too. Singler would've been a fine reserve but we still needed a starter.

[Deleterious 1,991]

Anyone wanting to check out Kaminsky, Wisconsin plays Michigan today at noon. Not 100% sure but I think it's on BTN.

The game is on ESPN.

[mickeyb105 431]

Taken overall, it seems weird that SVG used about every move he made prior to Jenning's injury trying to improve the team's outside shooting, but then apparently went right off his own playbook when Jennings went down and made moves that badly compounded the impact on team shooting that Jennings' loss created. I defended him before on the grounds that he tried to go with talent, but not so sure anymore now that the results are coming in.

I really think acquiring Jackson was as much about acquiring another material asset as it was about trying to trade for our PG of the future. As much as I think Jackson can turn it around with a solid shooter at one of the forward positions+pre-season to get on the same page with everyone, I also think he could be flipped for another useful player or pick. SVG will have a lot of money and roster space to work with during the off-season, so definitely see more of his plan then.

But yes, in a vaccum, trading for a penetrating pg and sending three good three point shooters out of town does defy logic.

[Hart 73]

I personally think Kaminsky is legit and not a bust like McDermott or Morrison. Not a star but a good starter on a championship team if you put him with the right people. That is well worth a lower lottery pick. May be a slight reach for where we end up though.

[Sydney_Fife 339]

McDermott is a bust?

[Buddha 688]

I really think acquiring Jackson was as much about acquiring another material asset as it was about trying to trade for our PG of the future. As much as I think Jackson can turn it around with a solid shooter at one of the forward positions+pre-season to get on the same page with everyone, I also think he could be flipped for another useful player or pick. SVG will have a lot of money and roster space to work with during the off-season, so definitely see more of his plan then.

But yes, in a vaccum, trading for a penetrating pg and sending three good three point shooters out of town does defy logic.

I dont see jackson as an asset. We traded two decent role players on small salaries for one average player who is looking for a salary well beyond his actual value. And who is going to give up assets to sign and trade for jackson now?

I think the opposite. We gave up two tradeable assets (because of their cheap salaries) and picks for an overrated player.

We got fleeced.

[Buddha 688]

McDermott is a bust?

I guess if youre not a superstar immediately you are a bust. Sheesh.

[Hart 73]

McDermott is a bust?

Fair enough. I am more just going off hype and draft position. McDermott somehow did make his way into the lottery, which IMO was a reach for him.

[mickeyb105 431]

I dont see jackson as an asset. We traded two decent role players on small salaries for one average player who is looking for a salary well beyond his actual value. And who is going to give up assets to sign and trade for jackson now?

I think the opposite. We gave up two tradeable assets (because of their cheap salaries) and picks for an overrated player.

We got fleeced.

It was unfortunate we had to give up DJ, as was a genuine value and was signed through next season. But Singler is a FA this summer, and his production was a lot less dependable than DJ's.

Jackson is pretty much playing the worst basketball of his career right now, and is definitely shooting his worst. Do you always judge trades after only a few weeks? You must have hated Dombrowski when he traded for Sanchez that first month. Feel free to name me a point guard, who after being traded mid-season, has lead his team to prominence. How much did you hate the Stackhouse/Hamilton trade? The Hill sign and trade?

Bad basketball teams have to make gambles like the Jackson trade to get ahead unless they completely luckbox the lottery like the Magic did with Shaq/Penny or like OKC did with Durant/Westbrook/Harden. There is no Kevin Love or Gasol brother lining up to come to Detroit, Chris Paul and Steph Curry's twin brothers aren't leaving their stable jobs at State Farm anytime soon, and Jennings is broken. Jackson shouldn't get $12M per, but he should get $9-$10M . . . and if he doesn't get it from Detroit, he'll get it somewhere else. An athletic pg is a premium asset in the NBA right now, as there is more athleticism at that position now more than ever before.

Jackson's stats as a starter at OKC indicated that he would be better than he has been so far in Detroit, and SVG would be foolish to sell low on him unless he feels Jackson is uncoachable. His 34% 3pt shooting from last season could be an outlier, but there is little reason to think he can't get back there or even do better. It is hardly unusual for a pg to improve his 3pt shooting as he ages. His turnover ratio worries me a little, and it tells me that we likely need to have another facilitator in the lineup--but that isn't a new problem.

To say the Pistons got "fleeced" based on 11 games of Jackson performing below previous levels, not buying it.

[Mr. Bigglesworth 2,701]

Hard for me to say any team got fleeced when they gave up Augustine and Kyle Singler.

What are you realistically going to get for those guys?

[Buddha 688]

They've won one game since he got here. His game doesnt work with monroe/drummond, or at least makes it very dependent on our other "shooters" making shots (a lot of whom were also traded for players who cant shoot).

We were on a roll and a borderline playoff team before the trade and now were probably the worst team in the league. How did we NOT get fleeced? For the "right" to sign jackson to an overpaid contract in the offseason?

Whoop dee dang doo.

[Gehringer_2 2,163]

It was unfortunate we had to give up DJ, as was a genuine value and was signed through next season. But Singler is a FA this summer, and his production was a lot less dependable than DJ's.

Jackson is pretty much playing the worst basketball of his career right now, and is definitely shooting his worst. Do you always judge trades after only a few weeks? You must have hated Dombrowski when he traded for Sanchez that first month. Feel free to name me a point guard, who after being traded mid-season, has lead his team to prominence. How much did you hate the Stackhouse/Hamilton trade? The Hill sign and trade?

Bad basketball teams have to make gambles like the Jackson trade to get ahead unless they completely luckbox the lottery like the Magic did with Shaq/Penny or like OKC did with Durant/Westbrook/Harden. There is no Kevin Love or Gasol brother lining up to come to Detroit, Chris Paul and Steph Curry's twin brothers aren't leaving their stable jobs at State Farm anytime soon, and Jennings is broken. Jackson shouldn't get $12M per, but he should get $9-$10M . . . and if he doesn't get it from Detroit, he'll get it somewhere else. An athletic pg is a premium asset in the NBA right now, as there is more athleticism at that position now more than ever before.

Jackson's stats as a starter at OKC indicated that he would be better than he has been so far in Detroit, and SVG would be foolish to sell low on him unless he feels Jackson is uncoachable. His 34% 3pt shooting from last season could be an outlier, but there is little reason to think he can't get back there or even do better. It is hardly unusual for a pg to improve his 3pt shooting as he ages. His turnover ratio worries me a little, and it tells me that we likely need to have another facilitator in the lineup--but that isn't a new problem.

To say the Pistons got "fleeced" based on 11 games of Jackson performing below previous levels, not buying it.

I think the Pistons problem isn't so much whether anyone got fleeced, as that 1) they just don't have much time to work these guys together, and 2) any assumption about a player's shooting percentage getting significantly better is a crapshoot. Things have worked out in such a way that they are going to have to make some decisions based on less than adequate data and that's bad place for bad team to be.