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What's wrong with the Offense?

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My sense on Broyles is that they want Fuller to be the downfield speed threat. Unfortunately the OL can't block well enough to make that strategy viable. I would like to see them shorten up the passing game, and I think Broyles could help.

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So how bad is Broyles then? He can't get any run while Fuller continues to do nothing. Fuller is not an NFL quality receiver, poor routes and worse hands. Why not at least give Broyles a shot?

Yah, its a bad sign. Not sure why they kept him if they didn't think he was worth putting on the field more often. He looked good in preseason and seems to be the type of WR we lack most.

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Broyles had multiple potentially career altering injuries. He probably just sucks now.

Fuller, Broyles and Ross are awful options. They have limited depth at WR. I'm surprised the TE's haven't gotten more targets.

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I can't accept that though... there were times when a Stafford just wasn't accurate. The receiver may not have been wide open, but the ball was no where near the guy. I don't think Stafford is horrible or the biggest problem here, but I also don't think he's without blame. He's a number 1 over all pick. He's supposed to elevate the players around him and right now he's average at best.

Often when a pass is off target, it's because the receiver read something different than the quarterback, or ran a poor route.

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The guys on the Chicago station who are pretty good seem to think that Stafford is a guy if you get to early he hears footsteps the rest of the game and it throws him off.

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I'd put most of the offensive woes on Stafford really. You can blame the new coordinator if you like, but I find that unlikely to be the case. You can sit there and blame the O-Line all day, until you look across the aisle and realize that Aaron Rodgers has as bad or worse an offensive line to deal with. The problem is unlike Rodgers or Manning or Luck or Brees or Brady, Stafford doesn't have it together upstairs. Not having the mental part of the game together (either because you're just plain not smart enough, have a million things swirling in your head or lack a work ethic) makes the rest of your game a mess. I don't know which of those three is the case for Stafford really, but it seems like something is amiss upstairs. Lacking the mental game as a quarterback effects your footwork, body angle, timing, touch, accuracy and on. The problem for the Lions is that they don't have enough around the guy, offensively and defensively to compensate for his mistakes and so they stand out more.

Guys like Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer could be less than superstar QB's and get away with it because the rest of the team around them was talented enough to makeup for their shortcomings. On that note, those shortcomings fall on one Martin Mayhew for not putting a better, more complete team together.

Stafford wants to go out there and do a caricature of Brett Favre. He wants to ride in on his horse and sling bullets all day with his amazing arm strength. The difference with his game and Favre's was that Brett could pick you apart with more than just an amazing arm. Favre could pick a team apart with great reads and smarter decision making on the field. Yes, Favre made plenty of risky, stupid decisions with the football too. He also made guys like Donald Driver, Antonio Freeman, Bill Schoerder, Mike Chamura look like studs at times, something Stafford hasn't done with his receivers. The questions need to be asked. Can you win a Super Bowl with the guy you have at quarterback? Is he good enough (or at least not so bad that he gets in the way) to get you into the playoffs and into the Super Bowl game? I think six years in, the answer with Matt Stafford at the helm is becoming no.

Edited by Mr.TaterSalad

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I'd put most of the offensive woes on Stafford really. You can blame the new coordinator if you like, but I find that unlikely to be the case. You can sit there and blame the O-Line all day, until you look across the aisle and realize that Aaron Rodgers has as bad or worse an offensive line to deal with. The problem is unlike Rodgers or Manning or Luck or Brees or Brady, Stafford doesn't have it together upstairs. Not having the mental part of the game together (either because you're just plain not smart enough, have a million things swirling in your head or lack a work ethic) makes the rest of your game a mess. I don't know which of those three is the case for Stafford really, but it seems like something is amiss upstairs. Lacking the mental game as a quarterback effects your footwork, body angle, timing, touch, accuracy and on. The problem for the Lions is that they don't have enough around the guy, offensively and defensively to compensate for his mistakes and so they stand out more.

Guys like Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer could be less than superstar QB's and get away with it because the rest of the team around them was talented enough to makeup for their shortcomings. On that note, those shortcomings fall on one Martin Mayhew for not putting a better, more complete team together.

Prove that point and I will listen to what you are saying.

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I'd put most of the offensive woes on Stafford really. You can blame the new coordinator if you like, but I find that unlikely to be the case. You can sit there and blame the O-Line all day, until you look across the aisle and realize that Aaron Rodgers has as bad or worse an offensive line to deal with. The problem is unlike Rodgers or Manning or Luck or Brees or Brady, Stafford doesn't have it together upstairs. Not having the mental part of the game together (either because you're just plain not smart enough, have a million things swirling in your head or lack a work ethic) makes the rest of your game a mess. I don't know which of those three is the case for Stafford really, but it seems like something is amiss upstairs. Lacking the mental game as a quarterback effects your footwork, body angle, timing, touch, accuracy and on. The problem for the Lions is that they don't have enough around the guy, offensively and defensively to compensate for his mistakes and so they stand out more.

Guys like Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer could be less than superstar QB's and get away with it because the rest of the team around them was talented enough to makeup for their shortcomings. On that note, those shortcomings fall on one Martin Mayhew for not putting a better, more complete team together.

Stafford wants to go out there and do a caricature of Brett Favre. He wants to ride in on his horse and sling bullets all day with his amazing arm strength. The difference with his game and Favre's was that Brett could pick you apart with more than just an amazing arm. Favre could pick a team apart with great reads and smarter decision making on the field. Yes, Favre made plenty of risky, stupid decisions with the football too. He also made guys like Donald Driver, Antonio Freeman, Bill Schoerder, Mike Chamura look like studs at times, something Stafford hasn't done with his receivers. The questions need to be asked. Can you win a Super Bowl with the guy you have at quarterback? Is he good enough (or at least not so bad that he gets in the way) to get you into the playoffs and into the Super Bowl game? I think six years in, the answer with Matt Stafford at the helm is becoming no.

I agree that the Packers line is worse than the Lions. However, I disagree with the premise that you seem (I could be wrong) to be constructing.

To me, this reads like the offense's failures are Stafford's fault because he isn't as good as Aaron Rodgers. Or, that until Stafford is as good as Aaron Rodgers, the lions can't win the superbowl. There are a lot of good ways to build a good team and a good offense. I think asking Stafford to be as good as Aaron Rodgers would be stupid. Obviously I think Rodgers would succeed with our o-line. He is a stud. He also gets paid $5million more than Stafford.

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To clarify: Do I think Cutler, Kaepernick, Wilson, Romo, Flacco, E. Manning, Ryan would succeed with the way the line has performed this year? No.

Do I think P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees would? Absoulutely.

Brady, Rivers, Luck: Not sure. Probably yes to luck, no to the other two.

I think you can scheme correctly to have good offenses with any of those first QBs though.

Edited by hardyaf

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I'd put most of the offensive woes on Stafford really. You can blame the new coordinator if you like, but I find that unlikely to be the case. You can sit there and blame the O-Line all day, until you look across the aisle and realize that Aaron Rodgers has as bad or worse an offensive line to deal with. The problem is unlike Rodgers or Manning or Luck or Brees or Brady, Stafford doesn't have it together upstairs. Not having the mental part of the game together (either because you're just plain not smart enough, have a million things swirling in your head or lack a work ethic) makes the rest of your game a mess. I don't know which of those three is the case for Stafford really, but it seems like something is amiss upstairs. Lacking the mental game as a quarterback effects your footwork, body angle, timing, touch, accuracy and on. The problem for the Lions is that they don't have enough around the guy, offensively and defensively to compensate for his mistakes and so they stand out more.

Guys like Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer could be less than superstar QB's and get away with it because the rest of the team around them was talented enough to makeup for their shortcomings. On that note, those shortcomings fall on one Martin Mayhew for not putting a better, more complete team together.

Stafford wants to go out there and do a caricature of Brett Favre. He wants to ride in on his horse and sling bullets all day with his amazing arm strength. The difference with his game and Favre's was that Brett could pick you apart with more than just an amazing arm. Favre could pick a team apart with great reads and smarter decision making on the field. Yes, Favre made plenty of risky, stupid decisions with the football too. He also made guys like Donald Driver, Antonio Freeman, Bill Schoerder, Mike Chamura look like studs at times, something Stafford hasn't done with his receivers. The questions need to be asked. Can you win a Super Bowl with the guy you have at quarterback? Is he good enough (or at least not so bad that he gets in the way) to get you into the playoffs and into the Super Bowl game? I think six years in, the answer with Matt Stafford at the helm is becoming no.

I actually think the OL is a significant problem - because of the kind of QB Stafford is. He doesn't cope with pressure the way Rodgers, Luck, Manning, etc, does. He seems to unravel when his pocket implodes. You can see the difference when watching guys like Rivers or Roethlisberger keep their cool and consistently throw darts with guys hanging all over them. You just have to accept it's who Stafford is at this point. He requires a strong OL to flourish. He does a lot of other things well... he's just not the kind of quarterback who handles pressure like those other guys.

If this D is legit, I don't think he has to be a superstar for the Lions to go far. It'd be nice if he was, but a lot of great defensive teams have made deep playoff runs with average QBs. He just has to keep his mistakes to a minimum

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To clarify: Do I think Cutler, Kaepernick, Wilson, Romo, Flacco, E. Manning, Ryan would succeed with the way the line has performed this year? No.

Do I think P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees would? Absoulutely.

Brady, Rivers, Luck: Not sure. Probably yes to luck, no to the other two.

I think you can scheme correctly to have good offenses with any of those first QBs though.

Rivers absolutely. Watched him do it all game long last Sunday

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I agree that the Packers line is worse than the Lions. However, I disagree with the premise that you seem (I could be wrong) to be constructing.

To me, this reads like the offense's failures are Stafford's fault because he isn't as good as Aaron Rodgers. Or, that until Stafford is as good as Aaron Rodgers, the lions can't win the superbowl. There are a lot of good ways to build a good team and a good offense. I think asking Stafford to be as good as Aaron Rodgers would be stupid. Obviously I think Rodgers would succeed with our o-line. He is a stud. He also gets paid $5million more than Stafford.

Asking the #1 pick overall to be as good as the #24 is unrealistic? This guy was supposedly drafted top of the class for a reason. Why can't we expect that from him?

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To clarify: Do I think Cutler, Kaepernick, Wilson, Romo, Flacco, E. Manning, Ryan would succeed with the way the line has performed this year? No.

Do I think P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees would? Absoulutely.

Brady, Rivers, Luck: Not sure. Probably yes to luck, no to the other two.

I think you can scheme correctly to have good offenses with any of those first QBs though.

What about last years offensive line? What was Stafford's excuse for mediocre play that resulted in the 17th best QBR rating?

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Asking the #1 pick overall to be as good as the #24 is unrealistic? This guy was supposedly drafted top of the class for a reason. Why can't we expect that from him?

Why hold it to just the #24 pick?

Every quarterback taken before the 6th round should have a career superior to Brady's.

Is that realistic?

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Stafford has thrown for more yards than any other QB (per game) in the history of the NFL. That's pretty good.

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A not insignificant part of that has to do with the style of play of the league paired with the Lions needing to throw a lot due to trailing games in the 4th quarter most of his career.

I like Matt probably more than most, but his pure passing yardage numbers mean relatively little to me.

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Football Outsiders has our o-line, through six weeks, ranked ahead of the Packers. We're ranked 18th and they are 22nd in total offensive line production (factoring in pass protection, running back yards, sacks allowed and more).

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2014 OFFENSIVE LINES

THey have GB 20th in pass protection, us 30th. Did you even read your own link?

Now take Jordy away from Rodgers too and then we can talk.

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THey have GB 20th in pass protection, us 30th. Did you even read your own link?

Now take Jordy away from Rodgers too and then we can talk.

To be fair, he did say factoring in run protection.

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Asking the #1 pick overall to be as good as the #24 is unrealistic? This guy was supposedly drafted top of the class for a reason. Why can't we expect that from him?

You do realize that how high in the draft you go is related to how good people think your abilities are given flawed datasets right? Actual draft position is not an exact correlation to success. Time and time again number 1 draft picks perform at half of Stafford's level. Does that mean teams should never use the first pick? Honestly, I bet if knew a player was going to be a good NFL player, but not great, that player would easily go in the top 5.

We have tons of film and stats on Stafford (5 seasons roughly). Probably about time to stop pinning our expectations of him on his draft position.

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What about last years offensive line? What was Stafford's excuse for mediocre play that resulted in the 17th best QBR rating?

Why am I supposed to defend Stafford against his interception problem last year? Is he throwing the ball up for grabs this year? Are we debating whether or not Stafford has a horrible last 8 games last season?

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Nobody taken in the top 8 spots in that draft have even made a pro bowl yet.

Clay Matthews was probably the best player taken in the first round and he was taken at #26, FWIW.

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Stafford has thrown for more yards than any other QB (per game) in the history of the NFL. That's pretty good.

BUT CALVIN JOHNSON!

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Every quarterback taken 1st overall shouldn't be ranked as the 17th overall QB in the league. He was picked #1 overall and you'd like to think that his play would measure up to that selection. Brady and Rodgers have both exceeded their selection spots, Stafford has preformed well under his expectations.

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