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Deleterious

2014 Preseason Games

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Back to Smith and why he shouldn't shoot mid range jumpers.

At 35% shooting on mid range he is producing 70 points per/100 possessions. Even at his horrific 26% 3Point shooting last year, he is producing 78 points per/100 from behind the line.

I think it's more of a set up for what you want Josh to do. When teams realized Greg couldn't and wouldn't shoot from mid range (I still remember Noah's hilarious 7 feet sags at the elbow when guarding Greg), his overall FG% went down even as he kept shooting a ton from inside 3 feet. I believe last year he shot 58% at the rim? Plus as we know, 36% for Josh, but too many of those shots from 3 and mid range were poor shots in a bad offense. I would like to know what Josh shoots on assisted mid range jumpers. much like the one that started the highlighted video.

If he's taking good shots, and LESS shots, from mid range, hopefully his %'s go up and he is able to dribble drive and kick out, which is a part of his game that SVG will appreciate. He had 3 nice kick out passes to open 3 point shooters in game 1.

Edited by ScrubBeaterUpper

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I mean the first jump shot in the highlight video has SVG applauding in approval. Josh is going to shoot that shot this year as long as it is a good jump shot.

We are going to have to prepare for it and not go all TPFan in the game thread over it. I don't even care about Josh Smith, his athleticism is in decline and at some point he will be Gerald Wallace, but they are going to play him and he will have to do stuff.

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I mean the first jump shot in the highlight video has SVG applauding in approval.

you keep saying this and its completely meaningless.

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I mean the first jump shot in the highlight video has SVG applauding in approval. Josh is going to shoot that shot this year as long as it is a good jump shot.

We are going to have to prepare for it and not go all TPFan in the game thread over it. I don't even care about Josh Smith, his athleticism is in decline and at some point he will be Gerald Wallace, but they are going to play him and he will have to do stuff.

Dude, I was equal with the Smith criticism. It's obvious you don't know my thoughts on the Pistons roster at all. I've been advocating staying with Smith and just letting Monroe walk for about a year, but that game the other right was too egregious to ignore.

And who gives a **** if SVG was clapping. It means nothing. Josh Smith might be the worst shooter in the NBA, last year he had a historically bad shooting year. Yet, here you are advocating him taking 19 ft jumpers with 16 secs left on the shot clock and telling everyone else that Josh Smith shooting 19 foot jumpers isn't only effective, but a good decision. If SVG could trade Smith for a 2nd rd pick he would do it in a heart beat. Josh Smith is the anti-SVG.

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you keep saying this and its completely meaningless.

No, Pierre Garcon means nothing.

It means that Smith taking that shot was a possible option of that play. You always want open 3's and dunks, but defenses adjust for the metric minded offense these days too. They don't want to give up dunks and open 3's, so the open mid range jumper is better than a contested hoisted mid range jumper up against the shot clock. Contested hoisted mid range jumpers really hurt the efficiency numbers of mid range jump shots overall, If I was a coach, I would want to avoid overworking the clock when the open 3 and dunk isn't there initially. Unless you want the corner long two fadea way thing that Jennings gets caught doing up against the shot clock.

Anyways, like I said, if you get caught taking too many mid range shots, you need a new offensive system.

Edited by ScrubBeaterUpper

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"Hey you know that PF guy who can drive the lane and kick out to wide open 3 point shooters? SVG is going to hate him and would trade him for a 2nd round pick if he could".

Maybe he would trade him for expirings and a 2nd, or maybe he will use Smith's talents to do what he is doing tonight to start the 2nd half, drive and kick out to wide open shooters en route to a 14-2 run. 4 Smith drives according to ESPN to start the quarter have resulted in 3 open 3PAs (2 made, one KCP was fouled) and a Monroe dunk. It's Preseason, so whatever, but he does some things SVG might covet.

Edited by ScrubBeaterUpper

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Pope with 20 tonight and only 1 three pointer. He got to the line 9 times. He must have really been going to the rim.

Is Meeks hurt? He didn't play.

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Pope with 20 tonight and only 1 three pointer. He got to the line 9 times. He must have really been going to the rim.

Is Meeks hurt? He didn't play.

Back spasms according to yahoo.

Drummond with 16 boards in 24 minutes...yikes! Singler 1-9 from 3...this team really needs to find a small forward.

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GRFP or Mlive:

AUBURN HILLS -- Detroit Pistons big men answered a challenge to rebound more attentively in a 94-80 victory Thursday over the Milwaukee Bucks at The Palace of Auburn Hills.

Andre Drummond, Greg Monroe and Josh Smith combined for 34 rebounds two nights after head coach Stan Van Gundy criticized the team's rebounding in win over Chicago -- particularly on the defensive end, and particularly Drummond's.

Drummond finished with 15 points and 16 rebounds and the Pistons outrebounded the Bucks 53-48.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope also continued his strong start to preseason with 20 points to lead all scorers. He also helped hold Bucks guards Jerryd Bayless and O.J. Mayo to a combined 1-of-13 shooting night.

The Pistons (2-0) also continued to value possessions effectively, with 15 turnovers to 23 for the Bucks (1-1). They had a 10-turnover advantage in Tuesday's preseason opener against Chicago.

HIGHLIGHTS

--The Pistons had a two-hour, 10-minute shootaround and video session Thursday, about an hour longer than average, in keeping with a rugged training camp which features three-hour practices on non-game days. Don't expect much tapering any time soon -- maybe not until a couple days before the Oct. 29 season-opener at Denver. "This is about the long haul here right now," Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy said. "It's about the big picture and what we want to be as a team during the season. It's not time now to back off, in fact, it's time to ramp up and do more and get a better idea of what we want to do, and get the repetitions in to do it right."

--The Pistons held the Bucks to 29 points in the second and third quarters combined.

--Brandon Jennings had four assists and one turnover. That gives the point guard projected to start for the Pistons a 14-to-1 ratio in preseason.

LOWLIGHTS

--Jodie Meeks was slated to start but he was scratched from the rotation after suffering from back spasms Thursday afternoon.

--Pistons other than Smith and Caldwell-Pope were 0 for 7 from the field, while those two were 7 for 7, before any other Detroit player scored, by which time the Pistons had fallen behind 21-15.

--Drummond's first air-ball free throw of the preseason came with 8:29 left in the game.

GAME NOTES

--Hasheem Thabeet, the 7-3 center who signed a non-guaranteed contract shortly before training camp began, will get a look before preseason ends, Van Gundy said. With Aaron Gray out for all of training camp after a cardiac episode and Monroe suspended the first two games for a DUI conviction, the Pistons will need a season-opening backup center to help Drummond, and Van Gundy said it has to be either Thabeet or going small with Tony Mitchell. The Pistons already have 16 guaranteed contracts, one over the roster limit, and putting Thabeet on the opening-night roster would guarantee his contract, too.

--One day after Van Gundy said he probably wouldn't consider using Will Bynum in his opening-night rotation because the latter has missed all of training camp so far, Bynum did more in Thursday's shootaround than at any time since the Sept. 30 injury, Van Gundy said. The coach called it an "encouraging" development.

--Mitchell, Gigi Datome, Cartier Martin, Lorenzo Brown, Josh Bostic and Brian Cook all saw their first action of preseason for the Pisto

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"Hey you know that PF guy who can drive the lane and kick out to wide open 3 point shooters? SVG is going to hate him and would trade him for a 2nd round pick if he could".

lol, you're funny. You think 1 preseason game is going to change the ledger on Josh Smith?

No one is arguing that Josh Smith can be very useful, I am pretty sure people have been saying that for about a decade, the problem is, he has never been that guy. I have a bet going on this very forum, a bet that requires Josh Smith to be a smart basketball for me to win. I am hopeful SVG can motivate Smith, and Jennings for that matter, but are you really that confident it is going to happen? I really hope it does.

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lol, you're funny. You think 1 preseason game is going to change the ledger on Josh Smith?

No one is arguing that Josh Smith can be very useful, I am pretty sure people have been saying that for about a decade, the problem is, he has never been that guy. I have a bet going on this very forum, a bet that requires Josh Smith to be a smart basketball for me to win. I am hopeful SVG can motivate Smith, and Jennings for that matter, but are you really that confident it is going to happen? I really hope it does.

I would say Josh Smith was a useful player in Atlanta from about 2006 to 2011. Maybe not a smart player but talented enough to be useful.

I am hopeful he can cut down his three point attempts by more than half this year. Amazingly, he had one year in Atlanta where he took 7 three pointers the whole year. I don't expect SVG to bring the number that low but even 100 or so I think is a reasonable goal. He should have somewhat of a bounce back year this year at his more natural power forward position. Can't assume that last year is what he is because it was the worst season of his career and he played for a dysfunctional team.

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Cutting down on three point attempts is pointless unless he cuts down on mid-long range jumpers first. It is actually bad if he cuts down on three point attempts and adds to mid-long range jumpers. I demonstrated in previous posts that he averages .70 points per mid-long range shot. Even shooting 26% last year from behind the line, he averaged .78 points per shot from behind the line.

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Here is where you do and don't want Smith to shoot from based on last years stats. So top 3 shots we want from him are at the rim, corner three, and three point attempt above the break. PPS = points per shot.

Ri5cJvO.png

For fun here is Monroe. He had only one three point attempt and it was >40 feet so I didn't include it. For both of these guys I would actually add a little to the shots at the rim because these numbers do not include any free throw attempts earned.

KmoRP3r.png

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I do not believe less three pointers will lead to more long twos. In 2010 when he only took 7 three pointers, he had the second highest true shooting percentage of his career. He took 250 shots between 16 ft and the three point line that year. Last year, when he shot 265 threes, he took 283 shots between 16 ft and the three point line. Last year he took just over 600 shots inside 10 ft. In 2010, he was just over 800 shots inside 10 ft.

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I do not believe less three pointers will lead to more long twos. In 2010 when he only took 7 three pointers, he had the second highest true shooting percentage of his career. He took 250 shots between 16 ft and the three point line that year. Last year, when he shot 265 threes, he took 283 shots between 16 ft and the three point line. Last year he took just over 600 shots inside 10 ft. In 2010, he was just over 800 shots inside 10 ft.

Not sure why you are using 2010. Well I mean I do know, it was the best numbers to support your argument. That year he took 55% of his shots at the rim (0-3 feet). His career average for that is 37.8%. Since 2010 here are his yearly breakdowns at the rim:

2011 - 31.3%

2012 - 30.4%

2013 - 31.8%

2014 - 24.4%

Even before last year he was a good 24-25 points off of the year you want to use as the benchmark. Even his career average is 18 points off the career year you want to use. Expecting him to recreate anything like 2010 seem like wishful thinking to me.

Edited by Deleterious

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Not sure why you are using 2010. Well I mean I do know, it was the best numbers to support your argument. That year he took 55% of his shots at the rim (0-3 feet). His career average for that is 37.8%. Since 2010 here are his yearly breakdowns at the rim:

2011 - 31.3%

2012 - 30.4%

2013 - 31.8%

2014 - 24.4%

Even before last year he was a good 24-25 points off of the year you want to use as the benchmark. Even his career average is 18 points off the career year you want to use. Expecting him to recreate anything like 2010 seem like wishful thinking to me.

I don't expect him to recreate 2010. I would like that but it is a long shot. What is not a long shot is improving over last year, which was the worst year of his career. I was just proving the point that less threes does not necessarily mean more long twos.

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I don't expect him to recreate 2010. I would like that but it is a long shot. What is not a long shot is improving over last year, which was the worst year of his career. I was just proving the point that less threes does not necessarily mean more long twos.

You did it by using his best year. Just a terrible way to do things.

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The previous 4 years for long two's.

2011 - 29.4%

2012 - 35.4%

2013 - 23.8%

2014 - 23%

Kind of funny we all complain about his long 2PA but last year was actually his lowest amount of attempts in the past 4 years.

So yeah, less 3PA probably = more long 2PA. Unless those 3PA are converted to shots at the rim, you don't want him taking less 3PA. Again, his top 3 shot attempts in terms of points per shot were at the rim, corner 3's, and above the break 3's.

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