Jump to content

belcherboy

The British and Scottish thing....

Recommended Posts

Someone smarter than me tell me what's going on over there? It seems to be a pretty big deal, but I haven't seen much about it on our news.

I've read a lot of "sky is falling" tweets and stuff from both sides, but what is actually the problem(s), and why does Scotland want to secede? (at least I thought that is what is at stake in voting booths today)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly don't know, but I think it's interesting. As you know, the United Kingdom comprises England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland (and maybe some island territories). The countries combined are also known as Great Britain. So, I guess technically the scots are british, too.

It could be a matter of them feeling they aren't being adequate supported by the British government and they want to be independent. It's probably the same reason anyone wants to secede from anything. A disagreement on politics or other governing decisions that aren't in line with their interests.

Maybe it's a big deal. But really, Scotland is its own country. Might as well be independent if the uk government isn't in line with your interests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hope to God almighty that Scotland stays in the UK.

That's what I'm wondering. Why? Is it for financial reasons? Or is there more to it? I don't see Scotland going "rogue" and becoming a hub for terrorism or other extreme behavior. I imagine if I lived in the UK that I would be bothered as it would most likely impact me economically, but how would this hurt the world's systems?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I really know all that much more than the average American on this, but:

Scotland is about to vote on whether they should remain part of the UK or become their own country. As to why this vote came to be, I really don't know, except that the idea of regaining Scottish independence has pretty much always been simmering, not unlike Texas and the US.

Apparently Scotland has had a beef for a long time about how much influence they have in the UK parliament compared to how much tax revenue they contribute. This is partly why Scotland has had a separate parliament since around 2000, as they were given control of certain functions of government (some taxation, for example). More powers were devolved to Scotland from the UK government in 2012.

Scotland also is considered to be a more liberal country than England, and with the UK government being controlled by conservatives (David Cameron as Prime Minister), it's not surprising that separatists have gotten a lot louder lately.

As for the consequences of Scottish independence, I'm not really sure. There's lots of opposition that claims a split would be an economic disaster for Scotland. There's some uncertainty over who would control oil revenue (Scotland has a lot of North Sea oil, though how long that will be viable is questionable). At least one major bank has said they'd leave Scotland if it becomes independent. Scotland might not be able to continue using the Pound as its currency, which would be bad.

There are also other issues. The UK's entire nuclear arsenal is located in Scotland, and they don't have anywhere else available to put it, and Scotland's independence party (the one in control of their parliament) probably won't let them stay. There's the question of border controls. There's the question of NATO and EU membership.

Nobody knows how any of this might affect Europe's (and the world's) overall economy.

There's also several other similar regions of Europe that would like independence for many of the same regions; Catalonia in Spain is the most significant one. A successful Scotland independence vote would possibly lead to much further Balkanization of Europe, which would be messy.

I'm not going to take a side over whether Scotland should be independent, other than to say I was there once so I could add another country to my "visited" list, without having the expense of travel, if they separate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not sure I really know all that much more than the average American on this, but:

Scotland is about to vote on whether they should remain part of the UK or become their own country. As to why this vote came to be, I really don't know, except that the idea of regaining Scottish independence has pretty much always been simmering, not unlike Texas and the US.

Apparently Scotland has had a beef for a long time about how much influence they have in the UK parliament compared to how much tax revenue they contribute. This is partly why Scotland has had a separate parliament since around 2000, as they were given control of certain functions of government (some taxation, for example). More powers were devolved to Scotland from the UK government in 2012.

Scotland also is considered to be a more liberal country than England, and with the UK government being controlled by conservatives (David Cameron as Prime Minister), it's not surprising that separatists have gotten a lot louder lately.

As for the consequences of Scottish independence, I'm not really sure. There's lots of opposition that claims a split would be an economic disaster for Scotland. There's some uncertainty over who would control oil revenue (Scotland has a lot of North Sea oil, though how long that will be viable is questionable). At least one major bank has said they'd leave Scotland if it becomes independent. Scotland might not be able to continue using the Pound as its currency, which would be bad.

There are also other issues. The UK's entire nuclear arsenal is located in Scotland, and they don't have anywhere else available to put it, and Scotland's independence party (the one in control of their parliament) probably won't let them stay. There's the question of border controls. There's the question of NATO and EU membership.

Nobody knows how any of this might affect Europe's (and the world's) overall economy.

There's also several other similar regions of Europe that would like independence for many of the same regions; Catalonia in Spain is the most significant one. A successful Scotland independence vote would possibly lead to much further Balkanization of Europe, which would be messy.

I'm not going to take a side over whether Scotland should be independent, other than to say I was there once so I could add another country to my "visited" list, without having the expense of travel, if they separate.

That's a pretty good run down. Weakening our most dependable ally...denuding the UK's vote in the permanent UN Security council, the economic damage of devaluing the Pound sterling -- due to Scotland vowing to renounce its debts on day one of independence. Making devolution across the globe a thing thereby further destabilizing the concept of the Nation state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's a pretty good run down. Weakening our most dependable ally...denuding the UK's vote in the permanent UN Security council, the economic damage of devaluing the Pound sterling -- due to Scotland vowing to renounce its debts on day one of independence. Making devolution across the globe a thing thereby further destabilizing the concept of the Nation state.

From what I read above, it looks like Scotland has been seriously planning this since establishing a separate parliament in 2000. The UK obviously was trying to calm the beast in 2012. This storm looks like it has been coming for a while now, so I would hope that the UK has been bracing for it and has some answers to the problems that would be caused if Scotland secedes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like the UK is willing to give up much more to keep Scotland in the fold.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/17/world/europe/scotland-referendum.html?_r=0

That makes me think that Scotland is staying put. Unless they are really bitter at the UK, and have a history of being deceived by them, I don't see why they would leave, especially after getting concessions in 2012, and are now being promised more. IMO, it seems that Scotland is winning, and really has no need to kill the goose just yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the whole political spectrum in Europe to be an interesting one. There's both a move to become more of a unit (European Union) and also a movement to fragment into smaller and smaller pieces, all at the same time. You have major world power sitting right along side minuscule city states. You have many languages and cultures and histories all packed into a relatively small area.

I often wonder if the United States would ended up in a similar situation had the 13 colonies not eventually created a strong(ish) federal gov't. How interesting might it have been if all the states in NA were independent nations who allied with some other states, but not with others. How much different would the world look now? Specifically: WWI? What if some of the counties/states here sided with UK and France, but others maybe sided with Germany and Austria-Hungry?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Scots should run like hell - screw the EU, the EURO, and RBS (who is threatening to leave if they vote yes). That alone is enough to vote yes (RBS & LLoyds).

The whole EU and EURO thing was a stupid idea to begin with. The entire thing is full of corrupt politicians and wankin' friken banksters - so guess who gets ******.

Be careful of the American press - they suck - and lie like a dog. Follow the $$$$.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Scots should run like hell - screw the EU, the EURO, and RBS (who is threatening to leave if they vote yes). That alone is enough to vote yes (RBS & LLoyds).

The whole EU and EURO thing was a stupid idea to begin with. The entire thing is full of corrupt politicians and wankin' friken banksters - so guess who gets ******.

Be careful of the American press - they suck - and lie like a dog. Follow the $$$$.

Leave it to screwball to be the ray of sunshine. Everyone is corrupt. Eventually Scotland would be too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a colleague said...that speeches don't matter...

supposedly Gordon Brown of all people put it all out there today.

We shall see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read someplace that the price of scotch whiskey will skyrocket if there is a yes vote. This pushes me from "IDGAF" to strongly against secession

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been a rallying cry for my clan from Great Grandfathers on down ; The Highlanders will never give up their dreams !

" It is not for glory or riches or honours that we fight, but only for liberty, which no good man will consent to lose but with his life.

For so long as one hundred men remain alive, we shall never under any conditions submit to the domination of the English ! "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is this vote limited to current residents of Scotland, or does it include those living/working elsewhere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So is this vote limited to current residents of Scotland, or does it include those living/working elsewhere?

Current residents, the dead, and anyone over 16 (serious on that). The Scots in the British Army and Royal Navy and RAF who were stationed on English or elsewhere not Scotland were barred from voting. This kept the likes of Sean Connery from voting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      96,640
    • Total Posts
      2,911,242
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...