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belcherboy

Fire Hoke??

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Still saw Denard...I mean Devon, making bad decisions. Just because he got away with only one actual pick doesn't make me feel better about of a couple of others that should have/would have been picks against better DBs. Much like last season, even when he was lucky enough not to succeed in throwing the ball to the other team, is was not always for lack of a fair effort to so.

I feel bad for him. He's on his third offensive coordinator and his first with a qb-centric pro-style coordinator. (I don't think Borges even had a QB coach.) Add the PTS of last season when his main objective was often just to survive and he's got both a lot to unlearn and learn. Having said that I notice what you do. His reads are slow and decisions late.

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I guess I don't understand why the recruiting classes keep getting brought up. First, they weren't "great" in my opinion. I don't remember the actual rankings, but I feel like they were in the mid teens.

Rivals.com had Michigan's recruiting classes ranked #7 in 2012, and #5 in 2013. (Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com 2013 Team Recruiting Rankings)

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With the first half of the Miami game, I feel like we are seeing flashbacks of last season when we barely survived Akron and UConn.

I'm not anxious about starting the B1G season yet, but fortunately there are quite a few B1G teams that look BAD right now. After this week, 9 wins sound VERY plausible for Michigan. But after the first half of the Miami game, 7-8 wins is also pretty realistic.

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With the first half of the Miami game, I feel like we are seeing flashbacks of last season when we barely survived Akron and UConn.

I'm not anxious about starting the B1G season yet, but fortunately there are quite a few B1G teams that look BAD right now. After this week, 9 wins sound VERY plausible for Michigan. But after the first half of the Miami game, 7-8 wins is also pretty realistic.

It seemed most people expected the offense to struggle with a new coordinator and loss of two OL to the NFL. What I have no feel for though is the defense. They went up against ND missing basically their two best DBs and a starting LB. Yesterday they were missing 3 starters. They have more depth than recent seasons but not experience. They need to get healthy and be the strength they were supposed to be.

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I feel bad for him. He's on his third offensive coordinator and his first with a qb-centric pro-style coordinator. (I don't think Borges even had a QB coach.) Add the PTS of last season when his main objective was often just to survive and he's got both a lot to unlearn and learn. Having said that I notice what you do. His reads are slow and decisions late.

I agree - everything seems to indicate good kid - and it's no sin in life not be a star at Div I QB. Never played or coached QBs so I can't say what may or may not be correctable for him, only that it's gonna to be uphill for M unless he gets a lot better at being a Div I QB.

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That's one source. Either way, my point remains the same.

ESPN had them at #7 in 2012, and #6 in 2013. I'm not sure what you would define as "great" if two top ten classes in a row is not. Those classes, at least on paper, were pretty strong classes. Why do you think think they weren't that great?

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ESPN had them at #7 in 2012, and #6 in 2013. I'm not sure what you would define as "great" if two top ten classes in a row is not. Those classes, at least on paper, were pretty strong classes. Why do you think think they weren't that great?

What were their ratings in 2011 and 2014?

We are just now seeing the effects of the 2012 class, in most cases. They are juniors or redshirt sophomores. 2013 guys are a year younger.

Regardless of how good they were rated, my point is you need multiple years in a row of great classes if you want to be a great team. The exception would be for teams that play a unique system or are coached by an elite staff.

I think the team is on the cusp of being really good. They could end up being quite good this year, too, so it's a bit early to be demanding results based of recruiting rankings in 2012 and 2013.

The Miami game did not bother me in the slightest, either.

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What were their ratings in 2011 and 2014?

2011 wouldn't be Hoke's class, would it? (2011 #21)

I thought the 2014 class wouldn't be fair to evaluate as they are just freshman. (2014 #18)

We are just now seeing the effects of the 2012 class, in most cases. They are juniors or redshirt sophomores.

Why does that matter, 2-3 years in a college program should be enough time for these kids to begin to shine. So far (I know it is just 3 games into the season) we haven't seen many good things yet IMO. Not that we've only seen bad, but I was hoping with high ratings, we would get a few standouts by now. We were shut out by a ND team that scored 31 points against us. :(

2013 guys are a year younger.

That's fair, although I hoped we would see some guys blossom early.

Regardless of how good they were rated, my point is you need multiple years in a row of great classes if you want to be a great team. The exception would be for teams that play a unique system or are coached by an elite staff.

So Michigan, on the field, right now has classes that were ranked 2011: #21, 2012 #7, 2013 #6, and 2014 #18 (the highest rated team with 18 or less scholarships to give away). That's a pretty good haul IMO.

I think the team is on the cusp of being really good. They could end up being quite good this year, too, so it's a bit early to be demanding results based of recruiting rankings in 2012 and 2013.

Why do you say that? Is it just a gut feeling? What game over that past 2 seasons makes you feel like they have greatly improved? Was it a win?

Unless they beat MSU or Ohio State, they don't even have another game with a "good" team on their schedule right now.

The Miami game did not bother me in the slightest, either.

I don't care about the Miami game either. I do care about the fact that they just got KILLED by Notre Dame the week before, and came out in the first half against Miami like they didn't want to play. In the end, they got their crap together and dominated like they should, and I liked that.

Edited by belcherboy

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I types out a really long response but it was lost.

My final point was this. There are reasons for optimism if you want to look for them. There are reasons for pessimism, too.

Also, the prior years are irrelevant to me. And we are still short on seniors. I'm waiting until next season to pass judgment after a few games.

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I types out a really long response but it was lost.

My final point was this. There are reasons for optimism if you want to look for them. There are reasons for pessimism, too.

Also, the prior years are irrelevant to me. And we are still short on seniors. I'm waiting until next season to pass judgment after a few games.

Fair enough. I'm hoping to be surprised and see Michigan playing for a B1G title by the end of the the season.

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Fair enough. I'm hoping to be surprised and see Michigan playing for a B1G title by the end of the the season.

I do think they will continue to improve but they are going to need the defense to lead in the rival games. They are the unit with the most experience and coaching consistency.

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2011 wouldn't be Hoke's class, would it? (2011 #21)

I thought the 2014 class wouldn't be fair to evaluate as they are just freshman. (2014 #18)

Why does that matter, 2-3 years in a college program should be enough time for these kids to begin to shine. So far (I know it is just 3 games into the season) we haven't seen many good things yet IMO. Not that we've only seen bad, but I was hoping with high ratings, we would get a few standouts by now. We were shut out by a ND team that scored 31 points against us. :(

It would matter if the 2 previous classes were stellar as well, but the 2011 recruiting class was mediocre due to the coaching change and the 2010 class was not good, especially on offense. Gardner is the only Senior on offense. Not only starting Senior, only scholarship Senior on offense PERIOD (true or redshirt). That's a pretty serious issue that Hoke inherited.

A lot of talent is emerging from those classes too. Funchess is going to be a 1st rounder. Jake Butt is an NFL caliber player. The offensive line is actually playing really well for how young they are. I think Jourdan Lewis is going to be a star, but he's still young. Other players on the defense from those classes are promising as well.

What's hurting this team right now is poor QB and RB play. Green is maybe showing signs of turning that around for the RBs, but Devin Gardner is who he is. He might play great one day and then lose confidence and play horribly the next. The defense is good, but not great. If Michigan had decent QB and RB play, that ND game is very competitive.

Obviously, I still think Michigan needs to have a good season for Hoke to stick around, but this team is really not too far off, and I'm expecting a good Big Ten season.

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The big ten is so terrible I still expect michigan to win 8 games even if gardner is their qb.

But its some of the stubborn failure to adapt that is troubling. Michigan said it was going to increase the tempo on offense this year. They are still the slowest paced team in college football. Even when it was obvious they couldnt play press coverage against notre dame they kept doing it anyway (while backing off a bit against miami). When the blocking broke down up front against nd they refused to put in a fullback, yet they did against miami even when the blocking was fine.

Hoke befuddles me in a lot of ways. He may just be too nice to succeed in modern big time college football.

And the fiasco at the end of the half was embarassing. For someone who began his coaching career by going for it consistently in 4th down situations when he should, he's regressed a bit. But that might be selective memory on my part.

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Anybody changing their minds?

I think if Hoke loses by double digits to MSU, they need to fire him immediately. I don't see a scenario where Michigan doesn't lose that game badly in East Lansing.

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Indefensible showing by UM today. They came out unprepared, Gardner is totally clueless at QB, and the coaching staff looks like it doesn't prepare.

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Indefensible showing by UM today. They came out unprepared, Gardner is totally clueless at QB, and the coaching staff looks like it doesn't prepare.

'D' looked good early on. Of course, we may well ask: "How are offensive coaches supposed to prepare for a QB that can't execute?" Gardner wasn't even making half an effort on his hand-off fakes.

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You see glimpses of the four and five stars that litter this team but I think that's more a reflection of their talent then the coaching. UM really needs to clean house and start with a good teacher.

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This is surreal...if you are watching this online

There are almost no Michigan fans in the stands.

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You see glimpses of the four and five stars that litter this team but I think that's more a reflection of their talent then the coaching. UM really needs to clean house and start with a good teacher.

I would imagine that Michigan would have an easier time attracting a great coach this time around if they decided to let Hoke go. Lots of young potential on the Michigan sideline.

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Should I start a thread calling for Dave Brandon's head, or shall we just use this one?

This thread is sufficient

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This is surreal...if you are watching this online

There are almost no Michigan fans in the stands.

so has anyone ever been killed by lightning while in a professional or major college sports stadium in the US?

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