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belcherboy

Fire Hoke??

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Except Marinelli seems to know more about football than Hoke does. Hoke is definitely more father-figure coach than Xs and Os coach.

maybe, I just remember a lot of "men" and "character" talk from Marinelli (when he wasn't talking about pad level), and that's what I hear from Hoke nowadays. And not very good results on the field.

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Does anyone else think michigan's coaching staff just isnt that good?

Mattison made great strides with the defense initially, but not a ton since then. The offense has been....well....you know.

When's the last time Michigan had a player that you felt was "coached up"? When's the last time a Michigan team has played up to the rankings their draft class has received?

I think it's clear Michigan has a pretty bad coaching staff, and I think part of it is because Michigan is still gung-ho on doing things "the Michigan way", which is likely antiquated.

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maybe, I just remember a lot of "men" and "character" talk from Marinelli (when he wasn't talking about pad level), and that's what I hear from Hoke nowadays. And not very good results on the field.

Let's hope Hoke doesn't start referencing rock pounding or various examples of using a pick axe...

Odds are Hoke is an average Joe Blow college football coach who just happened to be in the right place at the right time to be hired by Michigan. If Hoke continues to stumble we will see if Brandon is serious about fielding a competitive team, or if he'd rather stick with his old buddy.

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When's the last time Michigan had a player that you felt was "coached up"? When's the last time a Michigan team has played up to the rankings their draft class has received?

I think it's clear Michigan has a pretty bad coaching staff, and I think part of it is because Michigan is still gung-ho on doing things "the Michigan way", which is likely antiquated.

OTOH, the previous 3 or 4 NFL drafts speaks volumes to the lack of talent that Rodriguez left Hoke. Like I said before, lets see how the rest of the season plays out. This needs to be a successful season, otherwise Hoke needs to get thrown overboard.

I do agree on "the Michigan way" stuff. Brandon or (hopefully) the new AD cannot allow the inmates to run the show anymore.

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An Open Letter to Fans of the University of Michigan « CBS Detroit

An Open Letter to Fans of the University of Michigan

I grew up in Louisiana in the heart of the Southeastern Conference, where college football fandom is indoctrinated in children sometime between learning their names and the alphabet. I loved the game, but never had a team I truly loved. I missed out on the vitriol of rivalry games. And I felt cheated, but fandom isn’t created or manufactured. It has to be born. I had to be content, knowing I was watching the best football in the nation.

When I was a kid, other conferences like the Big Ten were an afterthought. They were just the sacrificial lamb the SEC would beat in various bowl games.

When I found out that I would be going to University of Michigan, I was excited. Not only is it a great school, but it has one of the most storied football programs. I was ecstatic to be a part of a fan base that had the tradition, the pedigree, and the reputation of a program like Michigan. I couldn’t wait to be a “Michigan Man.”

I’ll never forget my first football game. There was only one other time I experienced such a massive party — Mardi Gras — but this was all for a football game! I was just one in a mass of 100,000 plus walking down State Street, making the right on Hoover, the left on Greene when all of a sudden — the Big House in all her glory appeared through the trees, teeming with excitement and life. I was hooked.

Good thing, too. Michigan lost that game, 25-23, to Utah. It was the first game of the Rich Rodriguez era. The first game of the dark days of Michigan football.

We left the stadium that day with one thought: it’s going to be a long season. And it was.

Watching Rich Rod squander the best defense he would have in his ill-fated time in Ann Arbor by trying to turn the two-headed monster of Steven Threet and Nick Sheridan into a slower, less athletic version of his previous quarterback — Pat White — was painful. But I watched every snap of every game, because this was my team; my future alma mater. All the while, through the worst season in Michigan football, I had hope.

Not through the 3-9 season that followed — I knew that was a lost cause. But hope for the future, based on the past. Michigan knows football; they’ll turn it around. A tradition like Michigan will never tarnish. Every program has a down year.

I was studying in Hatcher Library when I heard that Michigan’s tumultuous (to put it nicely) coaching search was (finally) finished, and Brady Hoke had somehow beaten out the likes of Les Miles and Jim Harbaugh to be the next head coach of Michigan’s program. Hoke came to the press conference like a man with something to prove. An extension of Bo. A man’s man. A Michigan Man. His goal? Big Ten Championships. He wanted the job so bad; he would have walked from San Diego to Ann Arbor. He said everything a fan base that had been battered and abused for three years wanted to hear.

And I believed him.

Four years later, we are still waiting for him to deliver. His first year was deceiving — winning 11 games, but never really passing the eye test. They started one of the most elusive and one of the least accurate quarterbacks in Denard Robinson, who was electric and terrifying to watch on every snap.

I was at the Sugar Bowl in 2011. I remember going back to my hotel room and reliving the moment by watching SportsCenter highlights and watching Brendan Gibbons say he thinks of “brunettes” when it was time to focus on a kick. My immediate thought? “Wow, is that how a ‘Michigan Man’ is supposed to represent the University?”

I shudder now thinking of his alleged sexual assault case.

After this weekend’s complete domination at the hands of Notre Dame, I have realized there is no such thing as a Michigan Man. At least not anymore. I’m done buying the narrative. Stop trying to sell me the legacy jerseys and special numbers. Stop trying to sell me on tradition and stories of days past. Stop trying to sell me on recruiting classes. Let Jabrill Peppers play a season or two before crowning him the next Charles Woodson. Michigan fans everywhere need to just stop and see this program for what it is, right now, in 2014.

Michigan is overwhelmed, overmatched, and bottom line — not very good. Even if they win nine or 10 games, they still won’t be very good in a weak Big Ten. Michigan is supposed to be a national powerhouse. Instead, the Wolverines are an also-ran in a “power” conference that went 8-5 in the second week of the season against mostly “inferior” opponents.

In reality, Michigan is inferior and has been for a long time. Michigan fans deserve better and should expect better. Michigan is supposed to be the Leaders and the Best. The Champions of the West. The Victors. Without expectations and pressure there will be no change. Firing Brady Hoke won’t be the all-encompassing change people think. Hoke is just one cog in a very inefficient machine. Drastic changes have to be made.

I urge fans of the Wolverines to voice their displeasure. Be outraged. Demand better, because this program selling this narrative should be wearing thin and falling on deaf ears. Show that mediocrity will not be accepted.

Very soon, the Big Two, Little Eight (12) will be back, with Michigan State and Ohio State running the show. Some argue it’s here now. They probably aren’t wrong.

It’s time for this program to come to grips with the reality that they are not the Michigan of old. Only then will they be able to build a foundation for the new Michigan.

Until then, I’ll have the same thought I had leaving the Big House that first time.

It’s going to be a long season.

Signed,

A Disgruntled, Dissatisfied, Disappointed, Die-Hard Michigan Football Fan and Alumnus

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So what's everyone's threshold for keeping him? 9 wins? 9 wins plus a rivalry win? 10 wins?

Any combination of 2 of the following does it for me:

* He loses to either rival by more than 2 TD's

* He is shut out by either rival

* He loses to both of them

* He wins 8 games or less

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Waaahhhh

The author is wrong. Utah wasn't the first game of the dark days, that was App State.

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The author is wrong. Utah wasn't the first game of the dark days, that was App State.

Eh, that was still a good team.

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Fire him, he's lost, his players aren't panning out. If they could get rid of a much more accomplished coach such as Rodriquez after 3 years, why not this guy. He's done nothing to stem the tide, like was previously said the team is regressing under him.

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Any combination of 2 of the following does it for me:

* He loses to either rival by more than 2 TD's

* He is shut out by either rival

* He loses to both of them

* He wins 8 games or less

only the braxton miller injury could preclude you from getting at least three of these.

he needs 8 wins and some progress in how they play.

peppers and taylor coming back should help the pass defense. The offense? I think they stay the same until gardner is replaced. Not that morris will be a god send, but I think gardner is just not a good qb.

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Fire him, he's lost, his players aren't panning out. If they could get rid of a much more accomplished coach such as Rodriquez after 3 years, why not this guy. He's done nothing to stem the tide, like was previously said the team is regressing under him.

I'm not saying hoke is a good coach. But I don't know that it's true that the team is regressing under him. The ND game sucked, but I think it's too early to pass any sort of judgment.

Did anyone expect better than 9-3 this year?

There are still far too many unknowns at this point.

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I'd personally fire the AD first. I really dislike the direction Brandon is taking with the program, pimping it out really. I think the whole facility arms race with CFB and CBB is a waste of resources.

As for Hoke, he's just a guy, which is fine with me. A guy with a huge salary, yes, and I wouldn't want to waste the money to buy him out and then hire a new coach.

But I think he's done well recruiting, and I like his coordinators (now). Any other complaints are nit-picky and not termination worthy.

As for the rivals, we'll see how ND is the rest of the year, but I don't think there's any games in there that we should have won. OSU, MSU, and ND have been a combined 60-7 the 5 seasons that we lost to them. And those 7 losses were to ND, ND, OSU, Alabama, Clemson, Nebraska, Wisconsin. I think Hoke has done well to be these guys when he realistically could.

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I'd personally fire the AD first. I really dislike the direction Brandon is taking with the program, pimping it out really. I think the whole facility arms race with CFB and CBB is a waste of resources.

As for Hoke, he's just a guy, which is fine with me. A guy with a huge salary, yes, and I wouldn't want to waste the money to buy him out and then hire a new coach.

But I think he's done well recruiting, and I like his coordinators (now). Any other complaints are nit-picky and not termination worthy.

As for the rivals, we'll see how ND is the rest of the year, but I don't think there's any games in there that we should have won. OSU, MSU, and ND have been a combined 60-7 the 5 seasons that we lost to them. And those 7 losses were to ND, ND, OSU, Alabama, Clemson, Nebraska, Wisconsin. I think Hoke has done well to be these guys when he realistically could.

That's maybe too generous. The performance of the offense last year was inexcusable. Losing to ND 31-0 is inexcusable. If people were being realistic, they would have noted that last year was going to be rough due to the virtual goose-egg that Rodriguez left Hoke on the offensive line, but having the worst offensive line in all of college football by most measures was shocking.

That can all be forgotten if they show significant progress the rest of the year. 9 wins should be the floor. Going 1-2 vs ND, MSU and OSU and going 8-1 against the rest of the schedule is a good baseline for this team. If they can't do that, then a change needs to be made. 9 wins also isn't going to be enough if they just scrap by most of the Big Ten afterthoughts and get blown out by OSU. At the end of the regular season, we should have good reasons to believe next year will be a big year for Michigan football.

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Eh, that was still a good team.

That was when it all started falling apart. The precipitating event.

The team was good. But woefully underperformed.

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I know Hoke has to "say things" and be positive, but does that mean you have to say things that are so blatantly detached from reality? It really does shake my confidence even more...

Mark Snyder ‏@Mark__Snyder 9s

Hoke: We've got as good a conference as anybody in this country and I think that will show at the end of the year

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That's maybe too generous. The performance of the offense last year was inexcusable. Losing to ND 31-0 is inexcusable. If people were being realistic, they would have noted that last year was going to be rough due to the virtual goose-egg that Rodriguez left Hoke on the offensive line, but having the worst offensive line in all of college football by most measures was shocking.

That can all be forgotten if they show significant progress the rest of the year. 9 wins should be the floor. Going 1-2 vs ND, MSU and OSU and going 8-1 against the rest of the schedule is a good baseline for this team. If they can't do that, then a change needs to be made. 9 wins also isn't going to be enough if they just scrap by most of the Big Ten afterthoughts and get blown out by OSU. At the end of the regular season, we should have good reasons to believe next year will be a big year for Michigan football.

Oh believe me, I realize how pathetic last year was. I was just responding to the rivals argument which I think was in the OP.

I'm coming from the mindset where I'm not one that's going to judge CFB by wins/losses like I would NFL. I like the players we've recruited, and I like the coordinators and their track records, so unless a Harbaugh is inexplicably available or the season is a 6 win tire-fire, I personally don't see a reason to start again.

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That was when it all started falling apart. The precipitating event.

The team was good. But woefully underperformed.

I thought they were 2nd in the B1G that year and beat Florida in their bowl game? If that's true, I'm not sure they could have done much better (outside if beating App St)

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Oh believe me, I realize how pathetic last year was. I was just responding to the rivals argument which I think was in the OP.

I'm coming from the mindset where I'm not one that's going to judge CFB by wins/losses like I would NFL. I like the players we've recruited, and I like the coordinators and their track records, so unless a Harbaugh is inexplicably available or the season is a 6 win tire-fire, I personally don't see a reason to start again.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't judge a 4th year coach and his team by wins/losses. I don't care if they are the most likable recruits in the country, they just got shut out and beat by over 4 TD's and haven't played well against their main rivals for most of this coaches tenure at Michigan.

IMO, this was the year that Michigan was suppose to show some promise. A senior QB with a lot of experience and a large group of 4 and 5 star sophomores and juniors. Maybe they will turn it around but I think MSU is a little better than ND and OSU may be better by seasons end. We play both of them on the road. Wins/losses count doubly when Michigan is playing OSU and MSU. Seeing this is Hokes 4th year, that is a lot of losses against very few wins. Regardless, what real signature wins does Hoke have against teams that finish the season in the top 25? I'm not sure there is much on Hoke's resume that warrants keeping him at this point.

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I thought they were 2nd in the B1G that year and beat Florida in their bowl game? If that's true, I'm not sure they could have done much better (outside if beating App St)

That team was #5 overall when they were beaten by App St, and there were serious talk of them being title contenders that year. They had Henne, Hart, and Long, all seniors (iirc). They also got completely dominated by Oregon right after App State. In the Big House.

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That team was #5 overall when they were beaten by App St, and there were serious talk of them being title contenders that year. They had Henne, Hart, and Long, all seniors (iirc). They also got completely dominated by Oregon right after App State. In the Big House.

This is how I remember it as well. They had a chance to salvage the season,as they ran off a string of wins and beat State in East Lansing, but the Wisconsin and OSU losses crushed their dreams. The Florida win was awesome and a nice send off for Lloyd, but not a season saver.

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