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belcherboy

Fire Hoke??

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Carr made it pretty clear that he didn't want to hover over the new coach but would be there if Rodriguez asked. But who knows what happened. RR was not at all equipped to navigate the political waters. He was a guy who built fan bases and produced donors not managed them. He stepped on toes and insulted people without even realizing what he was doing.

Carr wasn't exactly a savvy navigator either but he had Bo to protect him. And when Bo died I think Carr knew he didn't have it in himself to be left alone on the front line. He couldn't be Rodriguez' Bo, that just isn't who he is.

Are you serious? Carr not a savvy negotiator? The same guy who prior to the 2007 season got 2-year contracts for his assistants? That Lloyd Carr? 13 years at the head of one of the nation's premier programs, and you say this about him? Sorry, not buying.

And he didn't need to be Rodriguez' Bo. Just tell people to cut it out.

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Agree. I'd read the scholarship release as a matter of philosophy for Carr - not having that much to do with RR personally.

Whoa whoa whoa. Carr is a "Michigan Man" right? Died-in-the-wool, no? And his philosophy would be one to hurt Michigan by cutting the legs out from under the incoming coach?

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Whoa whoa whoa. Carr is a "Michigan Man" right? Died-in-the-wool, no? And his philosophy would be one to hurt Michigan by cutting the legs out from under the incoming coach?

As I read Carr, to him the game existed 100% for the players. He didn't care about the fans, the pros, the media, the money. And so as a Coach he was a guy who cared about *his* players more than about the school or football as an institutional system. Letting his players out of their tenders is exactly the kind of 'screw *everyone* on the outside, we don't care about them" thing Carr would do for his players. He probably felt he committed to coaching each of those players when he recruited them and when that wasn't going to happen, I'm sure he didn't feel the kids should be constrained if he was not keeping up his end of the deal. My own view just from being in A^2, following the program and from having seen him in person around town a few times, is that Carr was a nasty bastard in general, but very loyal, devoted and *old school* about the few things he cared about - and his players were #1 for him.

Like I said, I don't think it had a whole lot to do with RRod other than that we was from the outside. Really, it would not have surprised me if Carr had done the same thing even if one of his assistants had gotten the job.

"Michigan Man" has become the topic's biggest strawman - people take it to mean whatever they like - it effectively means nothing in the discussion any more.

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The bottom line in my mind is that RR averaged 5 wins a year at Michigan for 3 years. For some reason after RR wins against Oregon, some think that it was a sign that RR is a great coach and would be in his 7th year at Michigan if they had simply given him another year. I just don't see why they would think that. His record at Michigan, his defensive ranking, the fact he got annihilated by his rivals in his final year, and that his recruiting rankings were falling were enough reason for me to see why they fired him.

I hope he blows it up in the Pac 12 and has great success! If he would have won 8 games at Michigan one season (I think he has done it twice now at Arizona in his first 3 years), he would most definitely have been given another year IMO, maybe 2.

Well, I agree that RR deserved to be fired due to the defensive incompetence his meddling apparently caused.

But, I think that at this point most people would probably rather have a completely horrendous defense but an offense that was exciting and could win some games, as opposed to the current team that just sucks at everything and is in no way fun to watch.

That doesn't mean that RR shouldn't have been fired, merely that they should have hired someone competent if they were intent on doing that, rather than running after Brady freaking Hoke

I think it really stands out comparing us to our 3 'rivals' who all had semi recentish job openings

Ohio State went out and got Urban Meyer, a national champion, and one of the top coaches in the NCAA.

Notre Dame got Brian Kelly, a proven winner who had been linked with seemingly every top job on the planet.

Michigan State got Mark Dantonio, another up and coming coaching candidate, which (and no offense to MSU since obviously they've been stomping us the past 5 years) was a really good hire for the stature of their program at the time.

Michigan got someone who was basically a nobody and would never have even been considered if he wasn't linked to the program. I mean, he was linked to the MINNESOTA job right before Michigan hired him, and most Minnesota fans felt he wasn't a good enough hire for them.

And apparently they were right, given that they just pounded him on the field.

Edited by pyrotigers

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I was hoping they were going to get Malzahn after RR. Sumlin would have been good too. There were actually quite a few up and coming guys that year. I still can't believe they went with Hoke.

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a little twitter research on this org...

https://twitter.com/MgoSAAC/status/506540660774944768

Apparently a person named Cooper Charlton is the SAAC president. I wonder if he's got Dominos pizza stock.

He plays Lacross. Is that even a sport?

I just put 2 and 2 together to realize that the guy who plays the now scholarship sport Lacrosse of course owes his existence to Brandon. Well, DUH. Kid, the next AD isn't going to kick you off campus.

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I was hoping they were going to get Malzahn after RR. Sumlin would have been good too. There were actually quite a few up and coming guys that year. I still can't believe they went with Hoke.

But those guys aren't "Michigan Men!" Can't hire a guy that didn't play for or attend Michigan...like Schembechler....

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I was hoping they were going to get Malzahn after RR. Sumlin would have been good too. There were actually quite a few up and coming guys that year. I still can't believe they went with Hoke.

It doesn't surprise me that they went with Hoke. It was a reaction to Rodriguez who had effectively disconnected the program from what Brandon would call the brand. The style of play, the barbs, the violations, angry boosters and former players who didn't identify with Rodriguez, etc. all combined to make them look for a certain package of qualities. Hoke has successfully addressed a lot of those foundational issues.

Now the question is what next? What combination of qualities will Michigan look for? I tend to think the new prez hates the negative publicity more than the win-loss record but he has a lot of stakeholders that he'll need to consider if he doesn't want to make the same mistakes Martin did.

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I'd like a coach that wins games instead of pretending that any of that stupid garbage matters, tbh.

If Rich Rod went 9-3 instead of 3-9 his first year, and built on it, almost none of those things would have come to light or mattered imo.

You don't hear about him having any issues at Arizona do you? Winning cures anything, even if it is being a bunch of out of touch, arrogant, elitists.

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Well, I agree that RR deserved to be fired due to the defensive incompetence his meddling apparently caused.

But, I think that at this point most people would probably rather have a completely horrendous defense but an offense that was exciting and could win some games, as opposed to the current team that just sucks at everything and is in no way fun to watch.

That doesn't mean that RR shouldn't have been fired, merely that they should have hired someone competent if they were intent on doing that, rather than running after Brady freaking Hoke

I think it really stands out comparing us to our 3 'rivals' who all had semi recentish job openings

Ohio State went out and got Urban Meyer, a national champion, and one of the top coaches in the NCAA.

Notre Dame got Brian Kelly, a proven winner who had been linked with seemingly every top job on the planet.

Michigan State got Mark Dantonio, another up and coming coaching candidate, which (and no offense to MSU since obviously they've been stomping us the past 5 years) was a really good hire for the stature of their program at the time.

Michigan got someone who was basically a nobody and would never have even been considered if he wasn't linked to the program. I mean, he was linked to the MINNESOTA job right before Michigan hired him, and most Minnesota fans felt he wasn't a good enough hire for them.

And apparently they were right, given that they just pounded him on the field.

You know the 2 reasons Brady Hoke was hired right?

#1 - Bo Coaching Tree - He coached for Carr, who coached for Bo. I think it's silly to do that one (coaching) generation removed. It might have been better to go directly from Carr to a Carr assistant, but none were ready. And this appeases the old guard that think everything has to have something to do with Bo.

#2 - Hoke will do whatever L. Ron Brandon wants and will not argue. Sure, Dave, you wanna stand on the sideline? No problem. You wanna be in the film room? No problem. You want to hire an Offensive Coordinator without checking with me first? Go right ahead. Oh, you want to stand by me for a press conference about a concussed player that remained in the game? Dave? Dave? Hello? Dave?

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Please, just do it now. Clean house immediately, including the failed Domino's CEO and now failed Michigan AD. I can't watch this anymore.

Edited by hail2mich

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It was said in the 'game thread' that the president may not know much about athletics, and while that may be true, a good president knows that what is happening with the football program is bad for the university.

If he at least knows that much, then he will surround himself with people who do know things about sports and can point him in the right direction.

Once we get there, it doesn't take a genius to figure out Brandon, Hoke, etc need to be gone.

Bye bye.

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You know the 2 reasons Brady Hoke was hired right?

#1 - Bo Coaching Tree - He coached for Carr, who coached for Bo. I think it's silly to do that one (coaching) generation removed. It might have been better to go directly from Carr to a Carr assistant, but none were ready. And this appeases the old guard that think everything has to have something to do with Bo.

#2 - Hoke will do whatever L. Ron Brandon wants and will not argue. Sure, Dave, you wanna stand on the sideline? No problem. You wanna be in the film room? No problem. You want to hire an Offensive Coordinator without checking with me first? Go right ahead. Oh, you want to stand by me for a press conference about a concussed player that remained in the game? Dave? Dave? Hello? Dave?

If you don't have #1 you ain't getting hired. Anyone who once shook hands Bo can get a job here, qualified or not, simply on the basis of having their flesh touch the flesh of Schembechler. I'm so tired of hearing about the Michigan tradition and past. I want to win now and I want to be competing for national titles. Whoever can get Michigan wins and titles is who I want in the driver seat of this football program. When it comes to hiring a coach can we please just forget Bo's legacy and move onward? PLEASE!

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Hoke needed to go weeks ago. He still needs to go. I doubt they will fire him before the end of the year. But the only way they are getting a decent coach is to remove Brandon as well. No decent coach will come here with Brandon still in that seat. He has to go. Enough is enough.

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Hoke needed to go weeks ago. He still needs to go. I doubt they will fire him before the end of the year. But the only way they are getting a decent coach is to remove Brandon as well. No decent coach will come here with Brandon still in that seat. He has to go. Enough is enough.

I think this also - the chain of events has to be Brandon vacating the AD job first, as there iwill be no sentiment for allowing DB to hire another FB coach. And that is the rub - firing Brandon has to be done with some delicacy. I was at a reception with some UM folks tonight and someone floated the idea that they should kick him up State Street to the Fleming building as a Provost for development or some such other title where he can keep putting his corporate connections to use. Might be a little obvious but still more graceful than a flat out firing of a politically connected and effective fundraiser for the institution.

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I think this also - the chain of events has to be Brandon vacating the AD job first, as there iwill be no sentiment for allowing DB to hire another FB coach. And that is the rub - firing Brandon has to be done with some delicacy. I was at a reception with some UM folks tonight and someone floated the idea that they should kick him up State Street to the Fleming building as a Provost for development or some such other title where he can keep putting his corporate connections to use. Might be a little obvious but still more graceful than a flat out firing of a politically connected and effective fundraiser for the institution.

I don't disagree with your comment at all and it isn't a bad idea. I'm just not so sure how willing he will be to continue to essentially "market" for the university when they replace him with someone else. Reassignment or firing, either way, everyone knows what it is and what it means. I had a lot of hopes for Dave when he took this job. Bill Martin did not do a good job (particularly near the end), but I never would have thought someone of Brandon's stature and intelligence would have failed this miserably.

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Apologizing for the stake in the ground is pretty abhorrent. Hoke has no backbone.

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Apologizing for the stake in the ground is pretty abhorrent. Hoke has no backbone.

the stake was uber weak. apologizing for it is even weaker

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the stake was uber weak. apologizing for it is even weaker

Craven comes to mind

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"Out of his depth" possibly as well.

Much as I'll hate to see him go I think this is the truth. I think he's a good man with good intentions but just not up to the job. Really had anyone looked at his career prior to Michigan they might have surmised that before the hire.

IMO the problems at Michigan date to not ponying up the $$ to hire Casteel when they hired RichRod. Had that happened I think the football world in Ann Arbor would be in a different place today.

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I can't believe hoke apologized. Thats ridiculous.

"Please, sir, I mean no disrespect..." Give that man his ****ing gruel.

**** him and everyone that takes a paycheck involved in this program.

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