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belcherboy

Fire Hoke??

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One thing I never quite got with regards to the Wolverines' prospects coming into this season was why is anyone surprised with Gardner's performance Saturday night? He is what he is. It was unlikely he was going to improve significantly in my opinion.

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One thing I never quite got with regards to the Wolverines' prospects coming into this season was why is anyone surprised with Gardner's performance Saturday night? He is what he is. It was unlikely he was going to improve significantly in my opinion.

I think the thought was that he wasn't as bad as he looked last year because he was often playing hurt and was given no help from his line or running backs.

I didn't watch the game on Saturday, but it sounds like he was pretty bad.

Looking at the drive charts, they didn't do themselves any favors by missing two field goals. That costs you points and field position.

And the defense didn't get the job done either and it got out hand fast. Maybe that's due to ND's offense being really good, michigan's defense bad, and/or some unfortunate sequencing.

The second half appears to be a completely different story. I don't know if Gardner felt like he had to make a play, but when you see that many interceptions, that's how it reads to me. At the very least, the defense seems to have played a bit better, but that isn't saying much when the deficit is so large.

I do wonder if they make both field goals if they are only down 14-6 at the half and getting the ball. Maybe things turn out differently.

The turnovers will always kill you, and sometimes they are a product of being careless or playing a high risk strategy to get points fast when behind.

I just don't believe they are as bad as this. I hope they regroup.

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He either is unable to coach them up, or he's unwilling to put someone else in there.

I think Hoke is more of a charismatic figurehead than a "technical" coach who can get the most out of his talent.

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A totally unsubstantiated rumor I heard back when they fired Gorgeous....

IT sounds like what could be happening, quite a bit, is Hoke is running the ship on the offensive side of the ball, sometimes... most of the time in the big games... which is why you can see it be so bad at times because he only wants to run the ball down the throat, regardless of what's happening in-game. Gorgeous took the fall for him.

At minimum, get him out of running the offense.... then wonder what good he is on any side of the ball...

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Unrealistic and dumb are different things. It may be unrealistic to think he'd come here, but it isn't dumb.

Nah, Tressel to Michigan is just dumb.

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Helping out some D2 school with reforming their football program when he's not admiring his national championship trophy on his mantle.

This whole argument that a coach won't leave his school because he is "waiting in the wings" or he won't go to a rival school is bunk. Brett Bielema was "waiting in the wings" to take over from Barry Alvarez and eventually left for Arkansas. Bo Schembechler left OSU to join Michigan. If Bo can do that I'm sure Narduzzi could come here. Money and program control talk, offer him enough and I'd bet he'll bite.

bo was never the head coach at ohio state. If he had been, he never would have come to michigan.

jim tressel is mot coming to michigan. Almost as crazy as your longing for phil fullmer to come here.

If narduzzi went somewhere as an assistant for a few years and was successful and was successfully removed from msu for a few years then maybe. But definitely not now.

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they def seem like long shots to me too, and while I still think both options are about as unlikely as possible, LeBron going back to Cleveland was a long shot too.

Honestly I'd be disappointed to see Vest here. He's a good coach, but he's a cheater. I'm not ready for that at UofM.... yet.

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I don't know if I'd fire Hoke right now, but its hard to defend him much anymore. I was willing to give him the year. I thought we had pulled in some good recruits, he had the one BCS year and I thought Nussmeier might help us get over the hump.

The inability to build an OL, at Michigan, with the style he wanted to play, is just inexcusable. He's in year 4 now and it should have been a priority. He simply didn't get it done. I don't think Gardner is very good, but I think he could probably get the job done if you put him in position to succeed. He's a guy who needs to work off of a good running game. At this point though, we might as well go with Morris the rest of the way and find out what he is.

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they def seem like long shots to me too, and while I still think both options are about as unlikely as possible, LeBron going back to Cleveland was a long shot too.

Honestly I'd be disappointed to see Vest here. He's a good coach, but he's a cheater. I'm not ready for that at UofM.... yet.

Lebron back to Cleveland was not nearly as much of a longshot as Tressel to Michigan. Not even remotely as long of a shot.

FWIW (nothing) I called Lebron coming back to Cleveland 2 years ago.

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Tressell thing isn't happening for many reasons, but I would like to add that if the university pursued him and he turned them down, that would be very embarrassing for the administration. Or, if he were hired and the team continues to struggle, that would be a huge embarrassment as well.

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bo was never the head coach at ohio state. If he had been, he never would have come to michigan.

jim tressel is mot coming to michigan. Almost as crazy as your longing for phil fullmer to come here.

If narduzzi went somewhere as an assistant for a few years and was successful and was successfully removed from msu for a few years then maybe. But definitely not now.

Agree about Tressel, but the Narduzzi thing is not that far fetched. An assistant coach at a rival brought in to resurrect the program. Narduzzi would leave MSU in a heartbeat to get a head coaching gig. I'm not necessarily advocating it ... yet ... but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

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Is it true that Hoke said he liked where the team was after this atrocity of a loss? If so he needs to go.

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One thing I never quite got with regards to the Wolverines' prospects coming into this season was why is anyone surprised with Gardner's performance Saturday night? He is what he is. It was unlikely he was going to improve significantly in my opinion.

Bingo

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If Hoke didn't want to fire Borges, and if he refuses to fire the oline coach and just reassigns everyone, then he should be fired.

He's in charge and everyone's job performance is his responsibility. Michigan players aren't getting any better, in fact, they're getting worse.

Gardner single handedly won them the ND game last year. Since then he's been terrible. What the hell happened to him?

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If Hoke didn't want to fire Borges, and if he refuses to fire the oline coach and just reassigns everyone, then he should be fired.

He's in charge and everyone's job performance is his responsibility. Michigan players aren't getting any better, in fact, they're getting worse.

Gardner single handedly won them the ND game last year. Since then he's been terrible. What the hell happened to him?

I think Gardner loses his confidence way too easily and falls back on old bad habits. He's a smart kid, but makes amazingly dumb decisions on the football field and hangs on to the football for WAAYYY too long. The contrast between him and Golson was stark on Saturday. Golson, who has a weak arm and mediocre athletic ability (for a "spread" QB), just knew how to execute his offense and got rid of the football quickly to the open man. Gardner, who has a good arm and is an athletic freak, held on to the football way to long and rarely found the open man (they were there).

People will say that a Gardner would have progressed more under a better QB coach. I don't believe that. He's just a mistake prone QB, and will always be a mistake prone QB.

My worry is that Shane Morris is a mistake prone QB too, and we're going to be stuck with him for 2 or 3 years.

As for Hoke, I really hope they turn it around this year. Another coaching change will be a disaster. The ND game wasn't as bad as the final score, and I still have hopes for this team in the Big Ten. Anything worse than 6-2 in the Big Ten means that he needs to go. Even at 6-2, I'd argue to fire him if the team does not generally play well and show improvement. Even as difficult as a coaching change will be, another disappointing season will just mean he's a lame duck next year and won't be able to recruit effectively.

Edited by Sparks4Ever

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Gardner, like denard, would have been better under rich rod. Neither are drop back passers like hoke wants on offense.

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Gardner, like denard, would have been better under rich rod. Neither are drop back passers like hoke wants on offense.

Which is why, if Michigan continues to stink it up for the next few games, I'd like to see Gardner moved back to WR and Morris start at QB so we can get the Morris era started sooner than later.

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Gardner, like denard, would have been better under rich rod. Neither are drop back passers like hoke wants on offense.

I don't really agree. Gardner is not a great read-option QB. He's better on broken play scrambles (when he's not panicking and giving the ball away).

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Which is why, if Michigan continues to stink it up for the next few games, I'd like to see Gardner moved back to WR and Morris start at QB so we can get the Morris era started sooner than later.

Gardner was terrible at WR. If Morris playing decent in practice, he should get a shot and Gardner can back him up.

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The more Hoke talks, the more I think he's a Rod Marinelli clone.

Except Marinelli seems to know more about football than Hoke does. Hoke is definitely more father-figure coach than Xs and Os coach.

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I don't really agree. Gardner is not a great read-option QB. He's better on broken play scrambles (when he's not panicking and giving the ball away).

Then he's just not a qb because he is not a drop back passer.

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Does anyone else think michigan's coaching staff just isnt that good?

Mattison made great strides with the defense initially, but not a ton since then. The offense has been....well....you know.

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