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Fire Hoke??

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Some of this is on Morris too. You get your bell rung, be smart about it and give yourself time......don't put your future at risk.

Talk to Jim McMahon about it. 30 seconds into the conversation he'll forget what you were talking about or who you are, but go to talk to him.....see what playing with a concussion can do to you at 50.

By and large it is hard for any anyone to become a D1 athlete without learning to play in/through pain as well as not being a very competitive individual. Concussions often affect one's ability to reason and virtually no athletes that age are thinking about their quality of life 30 years in the future anyway.

It is easy to say Morris should have done a better job of letting the coaches know, but I doubt many athletes in his position would have done anything differently.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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Honestly, the way the Morris thing was handled on game day doesn't bother me too much.

The complicating factor was the fact he had another injury (his ankle). I honestly don't believe that hoke or the other coaches would have put him back in there if they suspected any sort of concussion.

The problem was that the coaches didn't know about it. That's inexcusable and should be corrected. Someone should have had their eye on Morris who was about to take a big hit. The game moves fast so I believe that they removed him due to the ankle, and put him back in because they figured he could handle a handoff on the hurt ankle.

I don't think they were aware that he had the blow to the head, and I would think it was due to miscommunication. The sideline docs probably suspected it, but didn't have the sense of urgency because he had been removed already. Even if you've got docs telling hoke he shouldn't be out there, if they aren't talking about the concussion, it's reasonable to believe that hoke thought the only question was the ankle.

Anyway, the point of all this was to say that I don't think they put him with the idea that he might have been concussed. There were major organizational problems that led to that, and they need to be fixed, but I don't blame hoke.

My main issue with the whole thing is how they handled the fallout from the event. They waited far too long to explain what happened. The release at 1am was a joke. Hoke's press conference was a joke and he was hung out to dry.

I concur that the concussion is only the device that exposes the lack of effective game management and political hide covering that is happening. The best business school that Stephen Ross can buy should be embarrassed by this lack of effective organizational management.

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Clearing someone to play days after the fact and removing someone from play are two separate things.

The former has to be done by a physician, the latter can be any staff member who suspects a concussion.

The fact they are not easy or obvious to detect is all the more reason there is a strong push in the state of Michigan to require athletes be removed from competition when a player exhibits any sign of a concussion.

The expectation now, fair or not, is that it is far better to bench a player that hasn't been concussed than allow a player who has been concussed to continue to play. That is part of the world of coaching now, and Hoke knows that or should know that.

I'm pretty sure the state of Michigan puts the responsibility of the head coach, though I concede it is possible that applies only for non-revenue generating (i.e. youth) teams.

In any event, I would think any program the size of Michigan would have someone dedicated on this. That is purely my guess but it sounds like it wasn't the case.

Yes, they are two separate things but it would be absolute insanity to give a head coach that responsibility if for no other reason than an injury may be ignored for the sake of competitive advantage. You really want that authority with someone independent of the coaching staff. The question to me is whose responsibility is it to spot these injuries. I read some additional NCAA guidelines that also point to the refs role in calling an officials timeout. Again, I'm not sure if Michigan had the appropriate number of medical personnel or if this is just a whole series of unusual events. In most cases a player would be down which would trigger the normal sequence of timeout, medical attention, removal of the player from the game for further evaluation.

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Yes, they are two separate things but it would be absolute insanity to give a head coach that responsibility if for no other reason than an injury may be ignored for the sake of competitive advantage. You really want that authority with someone independent of the coaching staff. The question to me is whose responsibility is it to spot these injuries. I read some additional NCAA guidelines that also point to the refs role in calling an officials timeout. Again, I'm not sure if Michigan had the appropriate number of medical personnel or if this is just a whole series of unusual events. In most cases a player would be down which would trigger the normal sequence of timeout, medical attention, removal of the player from the game for further evaluation.

The authority can come from anyone on the staff.

The head coach is the one held responsible if the player is not taken off of the field.

Apologies if I wasn't clear on that.

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I concur that the concussion is only the device that exposes the lack of effective game management and political hide covering that is happening. The best business school that Stephen Ross can buy should be embarrassed by this lack of effective organizational management.

I agree strongly with this.

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I concur that the concussion is only the device that exposes the lack of effective game management and political hide covering that is happening. The best business school that Stephen Ross can buy should be embarrassed by this lack of effective organizational management.

Interestingly enough, one the things Schlissel has talked about the most since arriving is getting the U to use it's own in-house expertise more. The U is a typically 'siloed' institution.

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Interestingly enough, one the things Schlissel has talked about the most since arriving is getting the U to use it's own in-house expertise more. The U is a typically 'siloed' institution.

The athletic department seems to be benefiting from a multi-disciplinary program with the school of [insert punch line here]

(Getting lazy)

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The authority can come from anyone on the staff.

The head coach is the one held responsible if the player is not taken off of the field.

Apologies if I wasn't clear on that.

I can understand that with kids. I don't know how it works in HS. The NCAA has it's own set of requirements. Ultimately though, someone was supposed to be responsible for spotting and communicating.

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hey Lacrosse president athlete whatever dude.....all of those other sports that we were successful at that no one really cares about would STILL be successful without David Brandon. I highly doubt DB touches anything of significance with relation to the championship skeet shooting team.

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hey Lacrosse president athlete whatever dude.....all of those other sports that we were successful at that no one really cares about would STILL be successful without David Brandon. I highly doubt DB touches anything of significance with relation to the championship skeet shooting team.

Historically, UM has always paid lip service to the idea that revenue sport proceeds should be plowed back into non-revenue and rec sports around campus. Now whether Brandon has actually done more or less in that regard I don't know one way or the other, but in fairness, as far as I know maybe he has....

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Historically, UM has always paid lip service to the idea that revenue sport proceeds should be plowed back into non-revenue and rec sports around campus. Now whether Brandon has actually done more or less in that regard I don't know one way or the other, but in fairness, as far as I know maybe he has....

It seems to me that I am regularly reading about various facility/field upgrades.

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IDK, Brady seemed to have the resume of coach on the rise and there was no lack of testimonials to his coaching talent and character, but the wheels have sure come off his bus in Ann Arbor. Counter productive meddling by the AD? or is just an example of a guy being Peter Principled?

His resume was actually horrendous. There's no way he would have been considered for the Michigan job if he was just 'some guy' with the same record.

This is excellent. Brandon needs to go. Hoke still has a chance to redeem himself.

I don't really understand this attitude.

Even if you assign him zero blame for the Morris situation or the Gibbons situation, based on the actual performance of the team....why would you want him back?

They've gotten progressively worse every year since he's been here, with it being horrifyingly plausible that they could go 2-10 or 3-9 in his fourth year.

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It seems to me that I am regularly reading about various facility/field upgrades.

Yeah - including putting in 'Field Turf' at the fields along Fuller north of the tracks. Sort of scratching my head over that one. Is it really going to be cheaper long term than mowing the grass? (that seems to be the claim).

Edited by Gehringer_2

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I find it very hard to believe nobody around Hoke saw the hit or Morris stumble around or the players frantically waving to get him off the field. Even if Hoke was completely oblivious to his QB being potentially seriously injured, that's the downside of living in the Stone Age and refusing to wear a headset so other people from the press box can clue you in on what's going on. The HC is responsible for overriding Morris in that situation and removing the player from the field so he can get attended to by the trainers and neurologist.

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I can understand that with kids. I don't know how it works in HS. The NCAA has it's own set of requirements. Ultimately though, someone was supposed to be responsible for spotting and communicating.

Looking at the Michigan law, it specifically states youth athletics and youths throughout, so I assume that is why it doesn't apply to collegiate athletics.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea someone was responsible for spotting and communicating to Hoke. Actually, I'd argue all staff should be keeping an eye out for concussions given how relatively frequent hard hits are.

Independent of that, the head coach is the one who ultimately must and will take final responsibility for letting Shane play after receiving a concussion. The buck stops with him. And in today's environment, that is the attitude the general public is going to take with regards to this issue, and I personally think it appropriate and fair.

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I find it very hard to believe nobody around Hoke saw the hit or Morris stumble around or the players frantically waving to get him off the field. Even if Hoke was completely oblivious to his QB being potentially seriously injured, that's the downside of living in the Stone Age and refusing to wear a headset so other people from the press box can clue you in on what's going on. The HC is responsible for overriding Morris in that situation and removing the player from the field so he can get attended to by the trainers and neurologist.

Does Michigan have coaching staff up in coaching boxes? Wouldn't they have seen what happened? I have not heard mention of this, either.

Its cute that Hoke wants to go out in short sleeve shirts, and doesn't want to use a headset, and wants his men to be tough. But, the short sleeves don't really prove anything. The headset clearly affects his work as a head coach if he's oblivious to communication with his coaching staff and/or about his players, and he cannot effectively captain the ship. And he wants his men to be tough but as an adult he needs to understand and exemplify the fine line between tough and stupid.

I am surprised this hasn't been brought up yet. Well, I guess it has, but very quietly.

Michigan head coach Brady Hoke's recent controversy regarding the health of quarterback Shane Morris is not the first time he's come under fire for endangering player safety.

As Ball State's coach in 2004, Hoke was reprimanded by his athletic director after a player was frostbitten during a "disciplinary workout in subzero temperatures," according to an Associated Press article at the time.

Also reprimanded was Aaron Wellman, Michigan's current strength and conditioning coach.

Chris Jackson, a redshirt freshman wide receiver, suffered frostbite to "several fingers" during a 40-minute, 6 a.m. workout on January 31 of that year. Jackson and teammates carried a 25-pound sandbag up and down Scheumann Stadium, athletic director Bubba Cunningham told the AP. Associate professor of geography David Arnold told the AP the temperature at the start of the workout was -7 degrees Fahrenheit, with a wind chill of -12 degrees.

Hoke was hired by Michigan in January 2011 after two years at San Diego State.

In Saturday's contest against Minnesota, Hoke left an apparently concussed Morris in the game. When asked about the decision by the media, the coach said that if the quarterback didn't want to stay in the game, "he would've come to the sideline or stayed down." Michigan fans have since called for him to be fired.

Edit: I am sure that the guy isn't trying to hurt his players. But is he doing his best to minimize the risk that they assume as football players?

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You know who Brady Hoke is.

You know the scene in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure when the students are giving the history speeches and the football player is up there, and he's stumped......forgot where he was or what to say, obviously in over his head and he says SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES ! And the crowd goes crazy. That's Brady hoke, but it's THIS IS MICHIGAN.

Why is he so bad in the pressers? Because he's not running anything. He doesn't really know the answers. Dave wasn't there today (how convenient) to approve or disapprove the comments. Dave's making the football decisions. Brady is not doing anything.

San Dimas, hah, takes me back to my guitar days, used to be big on Charvel.

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Does Michigan have coaching staff up in coaching boxes? Wouldn't they have seen what happened? I have not heard mention of this, either.

Its cute that Hoke wants to go out in short sleeve shirts, and doesn't want to use a headset, and wants his men to be tough. But, the short sleeves don't really prove anything. The headset clearly affects his work as a head coach if he's oblivious to communication with his coaching staff and/or about his players, and he cannot effectively captain the ship. And he wants his men to be tough but as an adult he needs to understand and exemplify the fine line between tough and stupid.

I am surprised this hasn't been brought up yet. Well, I guess it has, but very quietly.

Edit: I am sure that the guy isn't trying to hurt his players. But is he doing his best to minimize the risk that they assume as football players?

Nussmeirer talked about this at his Monday press conference. He wears a headset and was alerted to the personal foul by the booth. He didn't see the hit and he says that he wasn't advised by anyone upstairs.

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Monday 11am in Ann Arbor, It's the Checker's Dave Brandon Resignation Lunch Special. From 11am until 1pm on Monday go to any Checker's location in SE Michigan and try the new Chicken Cordon Go Blue Sandwich for just 99 cents and get two free tickets to the Michigan-Maryland game.

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Monday at 1pm it's the Jobs Inc Michigan Athletic Director search. If you find a job before the University Of Michigan finds an Athletic Director you get 20 free tickets to next year's Michigan - UNLV game at Sony Michigan Stadium at Toyota Park. One Grand Prize Winner gets to announce the new Athletic Director at the Real Estate One Press Conference presented by Family Dollar (date TBA).

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