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belcherboy

Fire Hoke??

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In general, I'm always wary when someone is declared a "great guy" especially when a number of people saying it have never met the person or barely know him (i.e. the media).

I've never met Hoke so I have no idea. But, he lied about Gibbons' sexual assault case and covered that up and showed no remorse or accepted any responsibility about Morris in the immediate aftermath even though ultimate responsibility for having a system in place to prevent such an event falls on his shoulders. He comes off like a guy that might have some archaic beliefs about things like "toughness". I could see why people might question Brandon's motives, but I don't understand why Hoke would get any benefit of the doubt, either. They both just need to be fired and I suspect both will be, although Brandon might put up a good fight.

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In general, I'm always wary when someone is declared a "great guy" especially when a number of people saying it have never met the person or barely know him (i.e. the media).

I've never met Hoke so I have no idea. But, he lied about Gibbons' sexual assault case and covered that up and showed no remorse or accepted any responsibility about Morris in the immediate aftermath even though ultimate responsibility for having a system in place to prevent such an event falls on his shoulders. He comes off like a guy that might have some archaic beliefs about things like "toughness". I could see why people might question Brandon's motives, but I don't understand why Hoke would get any benefit of the doubt, either. They both just need to be fired and I suspect both will be, although Brandon might put up a good fight.

IDK, Brady seemed to have the resume of coach on the rise and there was no lack of testimonials to his coaching talent and character, but the wheels have sure come off his bus in Ann Arbor. Counter productive meddling by the AD? or is just an example of a guy being Peter Principled?

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In general, I'm always wary when someone is declared a "great guy" especially when a number of people saying it have never met the person or barely know him (i.e. the media).

I've never met Hoke so I have no idea. But, he lied about Gibbons' sexual assault case and covered that up and showed no remorse or accepted any responsibility about Morris in the immediate aftermath even though ultimate responsibility for having a system in place to prevent such an event falls on his shoulders. He comes off like a guy that might have some archaic beliefs about things like "toughness". I could see why people might question Brandon's motives, but I don't understand why Hoke would get any benefit of the doubt, either. They both just need to be fired and I suspect both will be, although Brandon might put up a good fight.

Actually this event falls squarely on the shoulders of the AD. NCCA guidelines make it the athletic department's responsibility to have the appropriate number of medical personnel and specifically say that a coach should have no direct hiring or firing authority.

As for Hoke being a nice guy...that comes from coaches and his players.

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And then there is the counterpoint:

Michigan's Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC), which represents all of UM's student-athletes, issued a statement late Tuesday supporting Michigan Athletic director Dave Brandon:

"The Student-Athlete Advisory Committee stands behind Dave Brandon and the entirety of Michigan Athletics concerning the events of the past few days. As student-athletes, we are confident that each member of the Athletic Department acts with our best interests in mind. We applaud Dave Brandon for upholding the tradition and values of Michigan to the highest standard, encouraging us to be leaders and best in all aspects of life. As such, we fully support our Athletic Director and trust his ability to make decisions for our success and well being.

It is important to remember that there are 931 student-athletes and 31 teams at the University of Michigan. These individuals and teams consistently achieve great success in every realm. The 2013-2014 academic year saw five Big Ten Championships, one Team National Championship, and three Individual National Champions. A total of 55 Wolverines were named Big Ten Distinguished Scholars, and six achieved Academic All-American honors. Student-athletes also collectively contributed hundreds of hours of community service and raised over $25,000 for charitable causes through last year’s Mock Rock performance. Simply put, as student-athletes we refuse to be defined by the successes or failures of any one team alone.

Sounds rather like it was written by Brandon's secretary and circulated around to the non-revenue sports facilities....

Edited by Gehringer_2

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And then there is the counterpoint:

Michigan's Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC), which represents all of UM's student-athletes, issued a statement late Tuesday supporting Michigan Athletic director Dave Brandon:

Sounds rather like it was written by Brandon's secretary and circulated around to the non-revenue sports facilities....

That smells like AstroTurf

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I'm not all that deeply offended by the whole "concussion" thing. I agree it wasn't a great idea to put him back in, but a concussion is a clinical diagnosis.

How familiar are you with concussion analysis protocols?

I coach youth athletics. I am required to take online classes annually to familiarize myself with concussions in general and identifying and addressing concussions specifically. Youth coaches in Michigan are expected to remove any athlete from play that exhibit symptoms of a concussion and are (purportedly) potentially legally liable if they do not. Getting up wobbly is one such symptom of a concussion.

That is for relatively low level 10-year old soccer / baseball / hockey.

I have to imagine at a program like UM they have far more qualified people to make that judgement that I am, yet this was missed and I would be expected to catch it the games I help coach. FWIW.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth

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Sounds rather like it was written by Brandon's secretary and circulated around to the non-revenue sports facilities....

What time was it released?

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I would like to reconcile the Golf team's twitter beef about having to have a bake sale or whatever to pay their way to an event that went out after one of the football games with the SAAC's corporate clicking-of-heels.

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How familiar are you with concussion analysis protocols?

I coach youth athletics. I am required to take online classes annually to familiarize myself with concussions in general and identifying and addressing concussions specifically. Youth coaches in Michigan are expected to remove any athlete from play that exhibit symptoms of a concussion and are (purportedly) potentially legally liable if they do not. Getting up wobbly is one such symptom of a concussion.

That is for relatively low level 10-year old soccer / baseball / hockey.

I have to imagine at a program like UM they have far more qualified people to make that judgement that I am, yet this was missed and I would be expected to catch it the games I help coach. FWIW.

EXACTLY!

I have to take concussion training for U4 soccer. 3 and 4 year olds that are still mostly slow moving and really care more about snacks than soccer. It is mandatory to be a coach. There has to be at least one certified coach at practices and games, no questions asked. Certification for individual coaches are on file through the league, and needs to be updated every other year.

And just like your league, if there is any hint of a concussion, the child comes out. No ifs, ands, or buts. Better safe than sorry.

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What time was it released?

LOL

Don't hate on Branding just b/c he's a night owl.

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I really love this sport, both NFL and CFB.... but the more I watch it, on both levels... the dirtier I feel.

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I really love this sport, both NFL and CFB.... but the more I watch it, on both levels... the dirtier I feel.

I have watched most of the Buckeye games this season. I have caught bits and pieces of other college games, but not much. I have watched 3 quarters of the Browns' opening game. And that's been it.

The NFL has just worn thin on me over the years. The constant coverage is just over the top annoying anymore, although I could handle it for baseball. I mean, training camp is more of a top headline than baseball is on a Tuesday in August, which makes no damn sense to me. And you toss in the circus of off field events from the last few months, and its just too damn much for me.

I'd much prefer watch college over the NFL anymore. I wouldn't have said that 10, 15 years ago. But that's just me.

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How familiar are you with concussion analysis protocols?

I coach youth athletics. I am required to take online classes annually to familiarize myself with concussions in general and identifying and addressing concussions specifically. Youth coaches in Michigan are expected to remove any athlete from play that exhibit symptoms of a concussion and are (purportedly) potentially legally liable if they do not. Getting up wobbly is one such symptom of a concussion.

That is for relatively low level 10-year old soccer / baseball / hockey.

I have to imagine at a program like UM they have far more qualified people to make that judgement that I am, yet this was missed and I would be expected to catch it the games I help coach. FWIW.

Of course, ironically enough, if Brady were a coach who was calling his own plays, he would have more than enough excuse for not personally watching his players get up from the pile as it would be perfectly acceptible for him to have his nose in his play book plotting the next play. As he actually conducts himself on the sideline, what else does he have to do? :confused:

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I'd much prefer watch college over the NFL anymore. I wouldn't have said that 10, 15 years ago. But that's just me.

I am just the opposite. I can't watch the college game anymore, I don't find much appeal. The Lions on the other hand, I haven't missed a down in a couple of seasons now.

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How familiar are you with concussion analysis protocols?

I coach youth athletics. I am required to take online classes annually to familiarize myself with concussions in general and identifying and addressing concussions specifically. Youth coaches in Michigan are expected to remove any athlete from play that exhibit symptoms of a concussion and are (purportedly) potentially legally liable if they do not. Getting up wobbly is one such symptom of a concussion.

That is for relatively low level 10-year old soccer / baseball / hockey.

I have to imagine at a program like UM they have far more qualified people to make that judgement that I am, yet this was missed and I would be expected to catch it the games I help coach. FWIW.

Didn't the Tigers send Avila to New York after clearing him only to have to send him when he experienced concussion like symptoms? I'm not sure how easy they are to detect. Morris had been hobbling around for a while on a bad ankle so that wasn't exactly a red flag.

The NCAA puts this responsibility on the team's medical staff. If Brandon is to be believed they didn't see the hit or weren't in a position to react quickly. I wonder if other teams have more medical staff or someone in the booth whose responsibility it is to follow replays.

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Hoke did Morris a favor. Because of this nobody is talking about what a terrible QB he is.

....and people question whether he's a master strategist.

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Hoke did Morris a favor. Because of this nobody is talking about what a terrible QB he is.

Excellent observation. Michigan better hope Morris has a huge jump in ability and competency before next season, otherwise Gardner's going to look like Tom Brady in comparison.

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I really love this sport, both NFL and CFB.... but the more I watch it, on both levels... the dirtier I feel.

Imagine SMU in the 80s. Imagine anything having to do with the Al Davis Raiders of the 70s.

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Excellent observation. Michigan better hope Morris has a huge jump in ability and competency before next season, otherwise Gardner's going to look like Tom Brady in comparison.

There is always Wilton speight. His profile is similar to Morris.

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Didn't the Tigers send Avila to New York after clearing him only to have to send him when he experienced concussion like symptoms? I'm not sure how easy they are to detect.

Morris had been hobbling around for a while on a bad ankle so that wasn't exactly a red flag.

Clearing someone to play days after the fact and removing someone from play are two separate things.

The former has to be done by a physician, the latter can be any staff member who suspects a concussion.

The fact they are not easy or obvious to detect is all the more reason there is a strong push in the state of Michigan to require athletes be removed from competition when a player exhibits any sign of a concussion.

The expectation now, fair or not, is that it is far better to bench a player that hasn't been concussed than allow a player who has been concussed to continue to play. That is part of the world of coaching now, and Hoke knows that or should know that.

The NCAA puts this responsibility on the team's medical staff. If Brandon is to be believed they didn't see the hit or weren't in a position to react quickly. I wonder if other teams have more medical staff or someone in the booth whose responsibility it is to follow replays.

I'm pretty sure the state of Michigan puts the responsibility of the head coach, though I concede it is possible that applies only for non-revenue generating (i.e. youth) teams.

In any event, I would think any program the size of Michigan would have someone dedicated on this. That is purely my guess but it sounds like it wasn't the case.

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Honestly, the way the Morris thing was handled on game day doesn't bother me too much.

The complicating factor was the fact he had another injury (his ankle). I honestly don't believe that hoke or the other coaches would have put him back in there if they suspected any sort of concussion.

The problem was that the coaches didn't know about it. That's inexcusable and should be corrected. Someone should have had their eye on Morris who was about to take a big hit. The game moves fast so I believe that they removed him due to the ankle, and put him back in because they figured he could handle a handoff on the hurt ankle.

I don't think they were aware that he had the blow to the head, and I would think it was due to miscommunication. The sideline docs probably suspected it, but didn't have the sense of urgency because he had been removed already. Even if you've got docs telling hoke he shouldn't be out there, if they aren't talking about the concussion, it's reasonable to believe that hoke thought the only question was the ankle.

Anyway, the point of all this was to say that I don't think they put him with the idea that he might have been concussed. There were major organizational problems that led to that, and they need to be fixed, but I don't blame hoke.

My main issue with the whole thing is how they handled the fallout from the event. They waited far too long to explain what happened. The release at 1am was a joke. Hoke's press conference was a joke and he was hung out to dry.

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Honestly, the way the Morris thing was handled on game day doesn't bother me too much.

The complicating factor was the fact he had another injury (his ankle). I honestly don't believe that hoke or the other coaches would have put him back in there if they suspected any sort of concussion.

The problem was that the coaches didn't know about it. That's inexcusable and should be corrected. Someone should have had their eye on Morris who was about to take a big hit. The game moves fast so I believe that they removed him due to the ankle, and put him back in because they figured he could handle a handoff on the hurt ankle.

I don't think they were aware that he had the blow to the head, and I would think it was due to miscommunication. The sideline docs probably suspected it, but didn't have the sense of urgency because he had been removed already. Even if you've got docs telling hoke he shouldn't be out there, if they aren't talking about the concussion, it's reasonable to believe that hoke thought the only question was the ankle.

Anyway, the point of all this was to say that I don't think they put him with the idea that he might have been concussed. There were major organizational problems that led to that, and they need to be fixed, but I don't blame hoke.

My main issue with the whole thing is how they handled the fallout from the event. They waited far too long to explain what happened. The release at 1am was a joke. Hoke's press conference was a joke and he was hung out to dry.

Some of this is on Morris too. You get your bell rung, be smart about it and give yourself time......don't put your future at risk.

Talk to Jim McMahon about it. 30 seconds into the conversation he'll forget what you were talking about or who you are, but go to talk to him.....see what playing with a concussion can do to you at 50.

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