Jump to content

Mr.TaterSalad

Should Kenny Holland Be Fired?

Should Kenny Holland Be Fired  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Kenny Holland Be Fired



Recommended Posts


Returns for guys like Rick Nash, Jarome Iginla, Ryan Kesler, Roberto Luongo and Jason Spezza have been underwhelming. And I consider neither Chiasson nor Jarnkrok to be top prospects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also the entertainment value of guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I like watching them play. Plus they want to be here and the younger guys respect them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm just going to say that your idea of a "top prospect" and mine differ...um...greatly.

Exactly! Alex Chiasson is not that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think the Red Wings have such a loaded system that they really don't need to make trades for prospects. They already have issues such as Jurco will have to spend time in GR this year because he has waiver exempt time available, and that's not what the Wings need. I think they should hold on to what they have, they have two of the top RH defensive prospects in Sproul (great shot, very much like Al MacInnis) and Marchenko. I would also have Mantha play the year in GR. He also has a great shot, but his overall game needs some work. He needs to play a lot of minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would also have Mantha play the year in GR. He also has a great shot, but his overall game needs some work. He needs to play a lot of minutes.

From what I read out of Traverse City, he could use time in Grand Rapids. It's also a shame that Jurco will spend time in GR this year, he earned a spot in my opinion.

I certainly don't agree with some of what Holland does, but I don't think firing him because of recent events would be prudent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hockey's Future is widely thought of to be the top site for NHL prospects, and they rank the Wing's system #3...

NHL Team Rankings - Hockey's Future

"Weaknesses: Outside of Anthony Mantha, the Wings do not have a particularly big group at forward. There is little goaltending depth behind Petr Mrazek."

Sizes of the last draft class: 6'1'', 6'2'', 6'3'', 6'2'', 6'5'', 6'0'', and 6'4''. Nosek, who apparently has looked pretty good at the development camp (wonder if Jiri was in their ear about this kid, and along with an almost all C draft, made it easier to get rid of Jarnkrok who was threatening to leave for Europe anyways) is 6'2''. I think the Wings have looked for bigger forwards recently so that is nice way to make up for a weakness. Don't mind the lack of high end depth behind Mrazek, unless they were looking to include a goalie prospect in a trade it doesn't matter much IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hockey Future rankings, while encouraging, is a bit misleading in that it only includes players who are not yet full-fledged members of the NHL team. So Colorado doesnt get credit for McKinnon for example and rate very lowly. I think if you instead were to consider "quality of players under 25 years old under contract" the Wings would be middle of the pack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Hockey Future rankings, while encouraging, is a bit misleading in that it only includes players who are not yet full-fledged members of the NHL team. So Colorado doesnt get credit for McKinnon for example and rate very lowly. I think if you instead were to consider "quality of players under 25 years old under contract" the Wings would be middle of the pack.

What are you talking about? That's a strength of their team. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Smith, Glendening Andersson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are all 25 or younger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glendening, Andersson, and Lashoff don't provide examples of quality under 25 players, but I do agree with you that it is more of a strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What are you talking about? That's a strength of their team. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Smith, Glendening Andersson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are all 25 or younger.

Of that group, special players are Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Smith and Dekeyser. Only 2 of those 5 are likely to become stars IMO (one of Nyquist/Tatar, one of Smith/Dekeyser), that's if we're lucky. Glendenning, Andersson and Lashoff are throwaways. So not bad, but doesn't blow me away. Maybe middle of the pack is harsh. Top 10. But not Top 3.

Colorado has Landeskog, Duchene, Ryan O'Reilly and McKinnon all 23 or younger. Better.

Chicago has Kane (25), Brandon Saad, Andrew Shaw, Nick Leddy. Better (if you count Kane)

Montreal has Galchenyuk, Brendan Gallagher, Max Pacioretty (25), Nathan Beaulieu, and PK Subban (25)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glendening, Andersson, and Lashoff don't provide examples of quality under 25 players, but I do agree with you that it is more of a strength.

They are good depth players. Glendening has a skill (flat out energy and hard work) that is needed on every team. He's good on faceoffs, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Example trade

Detroit + San Jose

Detroit: Tomas Hertl ©, 2015 1st + 3rd

San Jose: Henrik Zetterberg, 2015 4th

Example trade

Detroit + Anaheim

Detroit: Shea Theodore (D) + 2015 3rd

Anaheim: Niklas Kronwall

Ericsson + Franzen value:

Ideal

Solid prospect (center or wing) plus a 3rd

Acceptable

2nd + 3rd round picks

Example Trade

Detroit + Tampa Bay

Detroit: Nikita Kucherov (RW) + 2015 3rd

Tampa Bay: Jonathan Ericsson + 2015 5th

No way San Jose parts with Hertl. You might get Joe Thornton even up for Zetterberg.

On the other hand, I think you're underrating Kronwall. I'd want a helluva lot more than Shea Theodore and a 3rd for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They are good depth players. Glendening has a skill (flat out energy and hard work) that is needed on every team. He's good on faceoffs, too.

The Wings' future is bright because I think they'll squeeze/develop more talent out of their under-25s than other teams will do with comparable talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They are good depth players. Glendening has a skill (flat out energy and hard work) that is needed on every team. He's good on faceoffs, too.

Glendening at 48.5% was our worst center at taking face offs last season, during a quick google search I couldn't quickly find the league average but that doesn't scream good to me. If you apply that to the team averages from last season he'd sit in 23rd out of 31. Also 32.6% in the playoffs (way small sample size though, but it is rough having a liability for a series). He offers no offense and his possession numbers are crap (with a min. of 25 games only Weiss was worse than him at CF% rel, hell Cleary was a full 2.4% better than him). He tries really hard, I'll give him that, but he is easily replaced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They are good depth players. Glendening has a skill (flat out energy and hard work) that is needed on every team. He's good on faceoffs, too.

That doesn't make him a quality player, though. How many games are they going to win because Glendening works hard?

There is a difference between being a depth player and quality player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Babcock loves him, and said that he's good at faceoffs. I'll defer to him.

Luke Glendening | Red Wings Central

“He’s what I would call a coach player, not a scout player. No scout would ever draft him, look at him, because he doesn’t look that part. But he’s got unbelievable hockey sense, he’s an elite competitor and he’s a coach type player. You can trust him to get stuff done … I just think he’s smart. He’s a right-handed shot who can take faceoffs; he’s going to get lit up in the NHL for a little bit, that’s just how life goes. He’s a good penalty killer. He’s competitive, he knows how to play.” — Babcock (MLive.com, October 2013) … “He plays good every time he’s (in Detroit). He’s just smart. Good player, good faceoff guy, real good penalty kill guy. We don’t hide him when we play him. He goes right on the penalty kill. He does good things for us. We think he’s an NHL guy.” — Babcock (MLive.com, November 2013)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So Babcock's opinion trumps measured results?

He's a pretty good coach. He also said that he wasn't a scout player at all. But he's an important player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He's a pretty good coach. He also said that he wasn't a scout player at all. But he's an important player.

I read the provided information.

The point being made is that independent of Babcock's appreciation for Luke's game / work ethic, Luke is not anything more than a depth player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Babcock loves him, that's probably why he's even in Detroit. Babcock loves Cleary, does that mean he's still any good? If you don't think so, Cleary had pretty much the same zone starts and quality of competition as Glendening, but Cleary actually performed better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No way San Jose parts with Hertl. You might get Joe Thornton even up for Zetterberg.

On the other hand, I think you're underrating Kronwall. I'd want a helluva lot more than Shea Theodore and a 3rd for him.

Doug Wilson and Todd McLellan need to win NOW or they are out. San Jose, after gagging away multiple playoff series the past couple of seasons, needs a guy that can lead the team and get them over the top. If fully healthy, Hank can be that guy for them. If you want the best, you need to give up the best. If it meant saving their jobs and potentially winning a cup, I think San Jose does give up Hertl for Hank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now