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Mr.TaterSalad

Should Kenny Holland Be Fired?

Should Kenny Holland Be Fired  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Kenny Holland Be Fired



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1 hour ago, Scottish caveman said:

I'm an old-timer , Ned Harkness would have traded them ALL , and then traded all the players he got for even more players !

That might have been the right thing to do.  This administration holds onto older players too long perhaps.  They show too much loyalty.

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2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

One good trade doesn't make up for a 5-6 years of bad off-seasons and an organization not having a plan moving forward. I would still be more than happy to turn the reigns over to someone else. Especially after watching it work this past season in Pittsburgh with Ray Shero getting fired and Jim Rutherford coming in and winning a Cup.

It's funny you cite "one good trade" to tear down Holland but in the very next thought cite something that happened "once" and rarely ever happens to use it as evidence for getting rid of him.  

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But also, Harkness was not a good evaluator of talent, which Holland definitely is.

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1 minute ago, drownwithyou said:

It's funny you cite "one good trade" to tear down Holland but in the very next thought cite something that happened "once" and rarely ever happens to use it as evidence for getting rid of him.  

If he's still against Holland, then he's ignorable.  I'm not ignoring him, since he has a better clue about the Lions, and adds more there.

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2 hours ago, drownwithyou said:

It's funny you cite "one good trade" to tear down Holland but in the very next thought cite something that happened "once" and rarely ever happens to use it as evidence for getting rid of him.  

So it can't happen again? I'll have to go back and look at other NHL teams who fired their cup winning GM and won a cup shortly their after with another GM. I'm sure there are more examples of proven success than just Jim Rutherford. But the firing of Shero and hiring of Rutherford was Pittsburgh saying to themselves we're good, but that isn't good enough. They obviously thought there is an opportunity to do better and took that opportunity. I think replacing Holland is one of those chances to do better for us.

Also, I've been seeing people on the net citing this Datsyuk trade as if Kenny somehow regained his swagger and is proving all the doubters wrong now. We'll see how this off-season shapes up. If Holland goes out and brings in Stamkos and a top pairing defender and does it without blowing the lid off the cap for the next decade and without trading half the prospect pool away, I'll shut up about Holland and let this thread die. If Holland misses out on Stamkos and Lucic and we end getting David Backes + Helm and Quincey back, then well, what I feared will have come true.

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I think that's my fear as well.  I know that Stamkos is a risk and he may never be what he was, but at the same time, I want him more than ever just for what he would represent.  It would give the upcoming season such a different feel and add an excitement there hasn't been in a while.  I also worry that Holland isn't focusing on the defense.  Rumor is he wants to add two forwards.  I would have much rather had Yandle than any other forward that is out there besides SS.  Hoping it doesn't take days after July 1 like the Parise/Suter drama. 

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2 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

But also, Harkness was not a good evaluator of talent, which Holland definitely is.

If you are referencing draft talent here (which you may or may not be) Holland didn't run the draft. Jim Nill ran the draft up until he left for Dallas. I believe Ryan Martin runs their draft operations now but I am not 100% sure on that, it could be Holland. Hakan Andersson and the other scouts are the ones good at evaluating draft talent. Andersson in particular gets the bulk of the credit as he was the one that found us many of our marquee players in recent years: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Nyquist, Tatar, Mrazek. I have said it several times in this thread though that what I do give Holland credit for is not vetoing Andersson's/Nill's choices on draft day. Holland could step in and say no to whatever draft pick he wanted to and he does get credit for allowing these guys to be drafted. But that doesn't mean Holland has some genius eye for talent. He just knows when to listen to Andersson.

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14 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

So it can't happen again?

Never said that.  I just found your reasoning in that post funny, that's all.  I think you make good points at times even if we don't agree on things, but I found the reasoning there to be humorous.  I'm sure you view a lot of my posts on Holland the same way since we don't see eye to eye on this topic.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If you are referencing draft talent here (which you may or may not be) Holland didn't run the draft. Jim Nill ran the draft up until he left for Dallas. I believe Ryan Martin runs their draft operations now but I am not 100% sure on that, it could be Holland. Hakan Andersson and the other scouts are the ones good at evaluating draft talent. Andersson in particular gets the bulk of the credit as he was the one that found us many of our marquee players in recent years: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Nyquist, Tatar, Mrazek. I have said it several times in this thread though that what I do give Holland credit for is not vetoing Andersson's/Nill's choices on draft day. Holland could step in and say no to whatever draft pick he wanted to and he does get credit for allowing these guys to be drafted. But that doesn't mean Holland has some genius eye for talent. He just knows when to listen to Andersson.

You're hating on Holland borders on comical craziness.  But I'll let you have your say.  You're the only one in Detroit saying it.  Maybe the whole country.  There are about 25 NHL teams that would love to have Holland.

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1 hour ago, Kacie said:

I think that's my fear as well.  I know that Stamkos is a risk and he may never be what he was, but at the same time, I want him more than ever just for what he would represent.  It would give the upcoming season such a different feel and add an excitement there hasn't been in a while.  I also worry that Holland isn't focusing on the defense.  Rumor is he wants to add two forwards.  I would have much rather had Yandle than any other forward that is out there besides SS.  Hoping it doesn't take days after July 1 like the Parise/Suter drama. 

Maybe wishful thinking, but I think Holland and Anaheim have talked and that as soon as Holland knows how Stamkos plays out he'll go back to the Ducks and try to execute. Holland has what Anaheim wants for Fowler - Tatar and a good pick or Tatar and a middling prospect.

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1 hour ago, cruzer1 said:

You're hating on Holland borders on comical craziness.  But I'll let you have your say.  You're the only one in Detroit saying it.  Maybe the whole country.  There are about 25 NHL teams that would love to have Holland.

If you think I'm the only one saying it then you don't venture over to HFBoards much do you? HF is a buffet of Holland haters. It's where I got my avatar from. There's probably 15+ regular posters who use this avatar over there.

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11 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Buffalo is going to offer Stamkos around $13-$14 million a year..........    

 

If that is true and Holland matches that, he's crazy.

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7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Buffalo is going to offer Stamkos around $13-$14 million a year..........    

 

I agree with the esteemed TaterSalad, that is too much. The Wings could have multiple good 2nd tier free agents for that.

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No, I don't think Holland needs to match that to get him.  I don't think 2-3 million a year is going to make that much of a difference, really.    If he wants to stay close to home its Buffalo-Toronto-Detroit........Buffalo is awful, not even close to contending,  Toronto he'd be a rock star, but his scoring would go down playing for Babcock and the team is just a mess, Detroit he could be a semi-rock star, but still be able to live peacefully and they have the brand new arena.   Offer 10 million a year for 9 years and name Woodward after him and you can get it done.  No one knows who Augustus Woodward was anyway.   

Beware the Canucks here.............sneaky bastards, they are. 

 

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Ansar Kahn Tweeted me back after I asked him who is in charge of the Wings drafts now that Nill is in Dallas. He said Tyler Wright, Director of Amateur Scouting is actually in charge, not Ryan Martin. Either way, Martin or Wright, we know who to give credit to and who not to give credit to for our draft and talent evaluation process. 

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4 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

No, I don't think Holland needs to match that to get him.  I don't think 2-3 million a year is going to make that much of a difference, really.    If he wants to stay close to home its Buffalo-Toronto-Detroit........Buffalo is awful, not even close to contending,  Toronto he'd be a rock star, but his scoring would go down playing for Babcock and the team is just a mess, Detroit he could be a semi-rock star, but still be able to live peacefully and they have the brand new arena.   Offer 10 million a year for 9 years and name Woodward after him and you can get it done.  No one knows who Augustus Woodward was anyway.   

Beware the Canucks here.............sneaky bastards, they are. 

 

You might want to update yourself on Leafs friend, a mess they are not.  

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23 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

That might have been the right thing to do.  This administration holds onto older players too long perhaps.  They show too much loyalty.

 The wiser choice would have been to hang on to the young talent like M. Robitaille , Luce and Stackhouse instead of trading them off for older players , Harkness was grasping for straws at the end with no one respecting him !u

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I can't take credit for this as someone on HFBoards pointed this out . . .

$17 MILLION is now tied up in Helm, Abdelkader, Ericsson, and Howard. Two third line forwards, a bottom pairing defenseman, and a backup goalie.

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