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2016 Presidential Election - Who will the nominees be? Make your prediction here.

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Except that it didn't analyze the deal (and admitted such) nor the adversary and their intentions in the negotiations, and declared that the deal sucked regardless of a lack of said examination. It was a half-assed examination the intentions of 1/7 of those negotiating. Other an that, it's a suck ****ing post man.

They sure did negotiate forever to just cave in 3 seconds to everything Iran wanted. Makes sense.

Very bad post.

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People on Twitter are saying Sanders has 19,000+ people at his Portland rally right now.

Some pics. This is where the Trailblazers play, so its big.

CMAvra1WcAASYpj.jpg

CMAr4ssUkAAgDba.jpg

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Where do you register that Iran also wanted a signed deal?

Couldn't I say the same thing then? Since Iran wanted a signed deal too, even without knowing too much about the deal, it's easy to assume that they could have done much better?

I don't know if Iran wanted a signed deal. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. They left me with the impression that they didn't really care too much if they signed a deal unless it was clearly in their best interest. For some reason, the Obama admin gave the impression that they'd sign any deal that wouldn't completely humiliate them, thus negotiating from weakness, which was totally unnecessary.

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I don't know if Iran wanted a signed deal. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. They left me with the impression that they didn't really care too much if they signed a deal unless it was clearly in their best interest. For some reason, the Obama admin gave the impression that they'd sign any deal that wouldn't completely humiliate them, thus negotiating from weakness, which was totally unnecessary.

It's common wisdom that they wanted to sign a deal to remove sanctions.

Your statements on who had the leverage needs to examine all sides. You're not even coming close to doing that. Leverage is a relationship or multiple parties.

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It's common wisdom that they wanted to sign a deal to remove sanctions

Its very common wisdom that Obama wanted a signed deal for his legacy.

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That's a false dichotomy, and if that's their line of reasoning it's easy to assume that Obama accepted a lousy deal because he's admitting he had no other alternative, and thus zero leverage.

Obviously, the alternatives are continued sanctions and a coldish war (sabotage, etc). A hot war IS another possibility, and if Obama's team were decent negotiators, they should have lead the Iranians to believe this was a possibility without explicitly saying so. Instead, they lead them to believe that all Obama wanted was a signed deal. Thus, even without knowing too much about the deal, it's easy to assume that we could do much better.

How do you think continued effective sanctions are an option? The US had unilateral sanctions on Iran for years, no effect. It has been the international sanctions, particularly the EU willingness for forego oil purchases from Iran, which drove them to the table. The deal that created the consensus for those sanctions was to force Iran to the table. They came. If everyone else in the world, including the EU, Russia, and China support this deal, which was the object of the sanctions, where is there any effective sanction pressure against Iran going forward? The international sanctions are over. Not to mention that even with the international sanctions in place, Iran had been approaching breakout at a rapid rate, which at least for now has been stayed.

Edited by Gehringer_2

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Its very common wisdom that Obama wanted a signed deal for his legacy.

I agree that you think that.

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How do you think continued sanctions are an option? The US had unilateral sanctions on Iran for years, no effect. It has been the international sanctions, particularly the EU willingness for forego oil purchases from Iran, which drove them to the table. The deal that created the consensus for those sanctions was to force Iran to the table. They came. If everyone else in the world, including the EU, Russia, and China support this deal, which was the object of the sanctions, where is there any effective sanction pressure against Iran going forward? The international sanctions are over.

Iran's pressures don't matter man. Don't interject facts into a good Obama rant.

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It's common wisdom that they wanted to sign a deal to remove sanctions.

Your statements on who had the leverage needs to examine all sides. You're not even coming close to doing that. Leverage is a relationship or multiple parties.

I examined the posture of both sides. I'm not sure what you expected out of me. An in-depth piece on Iran's political and economic situation? Sorry, if anyone on this board dove into that topic, they'd be talking completely out of their *** (which I suppose is par for the course).

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I agree that you think that.

Well as long as we are quoting or posting "common wisdoms".

And I agree with Trump...Our leaders are stupid...in this case Obama. If, as you say, Iran wanted a deal to rid themselves of sanctions, it looks to a lot of folks that Iran got what they wanted.

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How do you think continued effective sanctions are an option? The US had unilateral sanctions on Iran for years, no effect. It has been the international sanctions, particularly the EU willingness for forego oil purchases from Iran, which drove them to the table. The deal that created the consensus for those sanctions was to force Iran to the table. They came. If everyone else in the world, including the EU, Russia, and China support this deal, which was the object of the sanctions, where is there any effective sanction pressure against Iran going forward? The international sanctions are over. Not to mention that even with the international sanctions in place, Iran had been approaching breakout at a rapid rate, which at least for now has been stayed.

Am I supposed to be more or less impressed with the deal because the EU, Russia and China support the deal?

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And OUCH! Look at Rubio. I think he would've expected to be higher in the polls.

TRUMP/CRUZ 2016!

You have to consider the audience expectations. If you put had Lincoln and Jefferson up as contestants on the Gong Show, they probably wouldn't have won either.....

:laugh:

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Am I supposed to be more or less impressed with the deal because the EU, Russia and China support the deal?

Irrelevant whether we are impressed, relevant that they are not going to be willing to continue sanctions just because the GOP doesn't like Obama.

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Irrelevant whether we are impressed, relevant that they are not going to be willing to continue sanctions because the GOP AND SOME DEMS doesn't like Obama.

ftfy

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...and I'm not a strong supporter of sanctions. I just don't get the Obama admin's negotiating posture, nor to I understand how this deal makes the US and our allies safer. We're pretty much guaranteeing Iran gets a bomb in 10-15 years. It does seem to give the Saudi's a nice deadline for their acquisition of a nuke.

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What is he apologizing to Fiorina for exactly?

Trump’s Carly Fiorina Insult Proves The Dark Horse GOP Candidate Has Arrived

Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump

I just realized that if you listen to Carly Fiorina for more than ten minutes straight, you develop a massive headache. She has zero chance!

11th Commandment - Definition

The Eleventh Commandment was a phrase used by later President of the United States Ronald Reagan during his 1966 campaign for Governor of California. The Commandment reads:

Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.[1][2]

I realize its hard to keep up with his constant irrational tweets.

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Edited by ROMAD1

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your fixation with party outliers is noted but also irrelevant

Schumer? He was talked about taking over minority leader, iirc.

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your fixation with party outliers is noted but also irrelevant

And your fixation with leaving them out is also noted.

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...and I'm not a strong supporter of sanctions. I just don't get the Obama admin's negotiating posture, nor to I understand how this deal makes the US and our allies safer. We're pretty much guaranteeing Iran gets a bomb in 10-15 years. It does seem to give the Saudi's a nice deadline for their acquisition of a nuke.

A lot can happen in 15 yrs. In 1975 would we have pictured what happened in Berlin in 1990? I'd rather take a speculation about where Iran might be in 15 yrs over where they surely can be in 12 months (short or war - that pesky option again) if we walk away from the deal. You remember that none of our deals with the Russian during the cold war were for more than 5 or 10 yrs at a time either.

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Irrelevant whether we are impressed, relevant that they are not going to be willing to continue sanctions just because the GOP doesn't like Obama.

Now they won't continue sanctions, but what about before a deal was made? If the EU thinks no agreement might equal US-Iran war, then do they press for a better agreement. No one thought that, and they knew Obama wanted an agreement, so they were undoubtedly pushing for a quick agreement so they could resume their business with Iran.

Not sure why it's expected congress should just rubber stamp this deal. No one seems too impressed with it, and even the administration admits to serious flaws.

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Be careful what you wish for....:paranoid::ponder:

Starting now gives him more time to shed supporters. I really don't know who is picking him, it's a mystery to me.

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I think the umbrage is false. Obama asks a very simple question with nothing vile about it, if we refuse a negotiated settlement with Iran and thus forfeit any kind of help from the IAEA and the rest of the world community, exactly what arrows do the cons think we have left in the quiver to effect Iran's behavior other than hot war? I'm not impressed by the outrage, I'd be more impressed by a reasoned answer to the question.

Look, Obama dealt from a position of weakness, much of his own making, and the deal reflects that. He and Kerry couldn't even manage to get the release of Americans for a little Bo Bergdahl-like Rose Garden celebration before time unveils another feeble agreement.

In the meantime Kerry has a bunch of UN resolutions he's dusting off, resolutions that Iran has repeatedly violated but Kerry now promises to follow up on to address everything Iran has been doing throughout the region. Yeah, that's the same toothless UN the IAEA reports to, the same IAEA that has reached a secret side agreement with Iran on which the entire agreement depends.

I have no doubt this is the best Obama and Kerry could do. It's obviously not the best that could have been done.

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