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Zakk_Wylde

Where did everybody go?!?

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I tend to not post much because although I'm a fan of the Tigers, I'm far from being a baseball expert. So most of the time I just read.

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Hey, guys...stumbled upon this thread and figured I'd add some input. I posted a lot between 2005 and a couple years ago then starting slowing withdrawing. This is actually the first time I've logged in in about a year. Can't say I deliberately said "I don't want to bother anymore"…but just some thoughts about why I possibly post less (not that any of you care)...

a) I used to post in the MSU/UM forum. When they got separated (for admittedly good reason...too much bickering) that forum kind of died. It was exciting (and stupid) to go at one another.

b) I posted in the political forum, but that can drive a person mad. Way too much bickering. I may try to dive back in.

c) As one mentioned before, the success of the team almost is boring (I know that is terrible to say for us long-time Tigers fans). There was something really fun about watching this team get built up, but when we started becoming the Yankees by outspending everyone in our division it irked me. Comerica is still fun to watch a game, but there are a lot of people there that bug me now and the games last too long (am I getting old?!?!). Part of me misses back in '03 and '04 when 10,000 people showed up...but those people all just loved the Tigers and were hardcore fans.

d) I have grown to strongly dislike Tigers' ownership. This is more political, but irks me the way they get credit for redeveloping downtown when I think they have done a ton of harm as well (I also oppose arena deal). Additionally, I am 27 - my whole frickin' childhood they didn't give a crap about the Tigers - now I hear they are the best baseball owners in the country. Are they good baseball owners now? Sure...but I will be bitter 'til death about how my Tigers' fandom growing up was diminished based on ownership. I know it won't happen, but a new owner I like would spike my interest again.

e) I don't Twitter or anything, but for no apparent reason lost interest in posting in a game thread. I don't watch every game like I used to which probably is relevant to that. Probably part of being so successful and not paying as much attention to the regular season.

Nonetheless, this has nudged me to get more involved. Hopefully I'll be posting more.

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c) Part of me misses back in '03 and '04 when 10,000 people showed up...but those people all just loved the Tigers and were hardcore fans.

I agree, there was something fun about watching them play with a small crowd.

On the other hand there is something really, really fun when it's a packed house and everybody is celebrating a playoff win.

d) I have grown to strongly dislike Tigers' ownership. This is more political, but irks me the way they get credit for redeveloping downtown when I think they have done a ton of harm as well (I also oppose arena deal).

I'm not a fan of Illitch either. Don't like him much and think he's a very one sided business man. I would say he's profited more from the city of Detroit then he has helped the city.

But, I do appreciate his role in bringing a winning team to our city. I think as an owner of the Tigers and Red Wings we may never see a guy like him again. He will be missed in that respect by me.

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I agree, there was something fun about watching them play with a small crowd.

I agree. What I miss most of all was the lack of demand for tickets. There was no such thing as a 'premium game'. You could show up 30 minutes before first pitch and buy Infield Box seats for $30. I went all the time and pretty much sat about 13 rows behind Pudge.

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I, in no way, want to go back to the days of 100 loss seasons, but there was something special about watching a baseball team that most of the area was ignoring. Looking for the next generation of players that would take them to the promised land.

Still waiting.

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I tend to not post much because although I'm a fan of the Tigers, I'm far from being a baseball expert. So most of the time I just read.

.....Oughta fit in just fine in that case.:laugh:

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I tend to not post much because although I'm a fan of the Tigers, I'm far from being a baseball expert. So most of the time I just read.
All too often I find myself with a new acquaintance at a game ans he or she will reminisce asking "remember when". They are surprised to find, I know all the historic Tiger names, but I did not begin my being a fan until the middle 90's. I had not been a fan of the game at all since grade school. I never played the game in an organized way. I never faced a curve ball; and a slider? What the heck is it? I had to learn "fielder's choice", "designated hitter", "hit and run" and who Mario Mendoza was and his cursed honor. I had to learn quick, my 10 year old was out pacing me.

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Nonetheless, this has nudged me to get more involved. Hopefully I'll be posting more.

chuck-norris-thumbs-up.jpg

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Seems to me like the 'intimidation' thing is overblown. To give an example last week we had a situation where people were piling on Hunter and someone was defending him. In that case it was like 5 guys against 1. However I don't think it got personal and I enjoyed the discussion.

I also think the latest 'slide' has improved things on the website somewhat. There's a handful of posters who's insight I really look forward to. I won't mention them but when they analyze something about the game I pay close attention. It's very interesting info.

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I just feel like if a poster is going to give his/her opinion freely on a messageboard that they are implictly agreeing to having their opinion read and possibly questioned.

Maybe others' personal work experiences are different than mine, but seems like 98% of the time a co-worker refuses to back up their opinion with any sort of facts or calculations and gets offended that you question their finding(s) is both just full of **** & used to not having anyone question them.

I am wary of that type and their claims. Been burned too many times in my 20 years in the workforce.

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People just giving opinions without backing them up in any way bores me. Most real life sports discussion is like that. I come to this site because it's not like that.

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Backing up a point with useless stats bores me which is why I come to this site. I enjoy real conversation with all manner of opinions...saying x player sucks because of x stat is boring to me.

I enjoy anecdotal evidence. I enjoy real stories from people. I want to hear from the person who was at the game the other day and saw something interesting. I want to hear about how they bumped into JL at the casino and said hello.

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Everyone likes anecdotes.

Doesn't change the fact that hunter still sucks.

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Backing up a point with useless stats bores me which is why I come to this site. I enjoy real conversation with all manner of opinions...saying x player sucks because of x stat is boring to me.

I enjoy anecdotal evidence. I enjoy real stories from people. I want to hear from the person who was at the game the other day and saw something interesting. I want to hear about how they bumped into JL at the casino and said hello.

I dislike seeing an opinion backed up by useless stats even more than you do.

Also, statistics is not the only way to back up an opinion. There are people here who are pretty good at making observations about players without using stats.

I always like to hear stories from people who went to games even when it doesn't contribute to an argument.

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I dislike seeing an opinion backed up by useless stats even more than you do.

Also, statistics is not the only way to back up an opinion. There are people here who are pretty good at making observations about players without using stats.

I always like to hear stories from people who went to games even when it doesn't contribute to an argument.

You know what really bugs me...honestly...is when a person gives an opinion, does not have a ton of time to back it up with a stat and starts in a conversation with one person about it. Maybe has a few minutes to have back and forth conversation only to have a thiiiird or a fourth and then possibly 6-7 people jumping in to denigrate the person who does not have the time, or care all that much about it to back up that opinion with a stat. It would be like sitting at the bar and saying 'Man the Tigers have been bad lately' and having the guy on the stool next to you start getting on you about....next thing you know the bartender comes over and starts throwing in one line snarky comments and then the guy on the other side of you starts in with as well. How long are you going to want to sit at that stool to try and explain the obvious to people who just want to argue with you? Not long.

It is usually taken out of context. Someone says x player has been great and then someone coming on to say 'Not really' or some other snarky *** comment when the person is just trying to give credit for SOMETHING to a player. Maybe that player had a good AB or a good game or a good defensive play only to have more than one rip that comment because the player 'sucks' or something.

That bugs me.

And I know most people disagree with that and say the place would be 'boring' if there was none of that, but I call it tedious because of the way it gets and think it would be much better if people were allowed to give opinion and to even say 'hey it is just how I see it' without getting piled on about it.

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You know what bores me? When people create strawmen arguments to make it seem that some people are always saying reasonable common-sense things only to have other people gang up on those folks.

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You know what really bugs me...honestly...is when a person gives an opinion, does not have a ton of time to back it up with a stat and starts in a conversation with one person about it. Maybe has a few minutes to have back and forth conversation only to have a thiiiird or a fourth and then possibly 6-7 people jumping in to denigrate the person who does not have the time, or care all that much about it to back up that opinion with a stat. It would be like sitting at the bar and saying 'Man the Tigers have been bad lately' and having the guy on the stool next to you start getting on you about....next thing you know the bartender comes over and starts throwing in one line snarky comments and then the guy on the other side of you starts in with as well. How long are you going to want to sit at that stool to try and explain the obvious to people who just want to argue with you? Not long.

It is usually taken out of context. Someone says x player has been great and then someone coming on to say 'Not really' or some other snarky *** comment when the person is just trying to give credit for SOMETHING to a player. Maybe that player had a good AB or a good game or a good defensive play only to have more than one rip that comment because the player 'sucks' or something.

That bugs me.

And I know most people disagree with that and say the place would be 'boring' if there was none of that, but I call it tedious because of the way it gets and think it would be much better if people were allowed to give opinion and to even say 'hey it is just how I see it' without getting piled on about it.

The way to have that stop bugging you is not to worry about the cross talk when you are having a discussion with one person. Turn the bar analogy around. If you make a comment about Verlander to your friend, someone at the next table overhears it and takes the occasion to start an argument with the people at *his* table about Verlander, would do you feel obligated to go to their table in join in? It is OK to just let stuff go - sometimes. :ponder:

Edited by Gehringer_2

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You know what bores me? When people create strawmen arguments to make it seem that some people are always saying reasonable common-sense things only to have other people gang up on those folks.

Agreed.

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The way to have that stop bugging you is not to worry about the cross talk when you are having a discussion with one person. Turn the bar analogy around. If you make a comment about Verlander to your friend, someone at the next table overhears it and takes the occasion to start an argument with the people at *his* table about Verlander, would do you feel obligated to go to their table in join in? It is OK to just let stuff go - sometimes. :classic:

If that same guy at the bar keeps looking over and asking me direct questions about it or making snark comments about my discussion it is kind of hard to just ignore.

If I am at the bar and say to my friend "man JV has been on the uptick...he only gave up 3 runs last start' and the guy at the other table immediately mocks that by saying something like 'well he only went 4 innings! LOL what an idiot, JV is done!' etc...then it becomes hard to ignore.

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You know what really bugs me...honestly...is when a person gives an opinion, does not have a ton of time to back it up with a stat and starts in a conversation with one person about it. Maybe has a few minutes to have back and forth conversation only to have a thiiiird or a fourth and then possibly 6-7 people jumping in to denigrate the person who does not have the time, or care all that much about it to back up that opinion with a stat. It would be like sitting at the bar and saying 'Man the Tigers have been bad lately' and having the guy on the stool next to you start getting on you about....next thing you know the bartender comes over and starts throwing in one line snarky comments and then the guy on the other side of you starts in with as well. How long are you going to want to sit at that stool to try and explain the obvious to people who just want to argue with you? Not long.

If someone doesn't have time to think about something, why would they even bother posting on a message board?

I don't see this place as a bar. Bar conversations are generally dominated by extroverts who speak the loudest and quickest whether they have anything interesting to say or not. That's not always a bad thing if they have good personalities and they are fun to be around (not always the case) but it's a different dynamic than a message board where people have a chance to organize their thoughts. I think what happens online a lot is that that extroverts state their loud and quick opinions expecting everybody to just laugh and listen like they do in real life. Then they get frustrated when the introverts (who now have a chance to process their thoughts and write them down without being rushed) ask them to think out their opinions.

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If that same guy at the bar keeps looking over and asking me direct questions about it or making snark comments about my discussion it is kind of hard to just ignore.

If I am at the bar and say to my friend "man JV has been on the uptick...he only gave up 3 runs last start' and the guy at the other table immediately mocks that by saying something like 'well he only went 4 innings! LOL what an idiot, JV is done!' etc...then it becomes hard to ignore.

This is the analogy you want use? If you claim 3 runs in 4 innings is a silver lining, you are dead wrong.

If you don't want your insane opinion questioned, don't go to a public house and declare your insane opinion.

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